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rustnrot
04-07-2005, 02:29 PM
I found the attached pic in the 1965 brochure that was referenced in another thread here http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?p=318313#post318313. AFAIK the prototype pictured was made out of wood. Haven't I heard that there is lines drawings of this boat available? IMHO one reason they did not go with the severe tumblehome was they would have needed a two piece bottom mold........

Lenny
04-07-2005, 02:39 PM
That boat is the Wyn-Mil.

The Formula Junior, that is what that boat became CAN come out of a single hull mold. They dropped the sheer line from what you see as deck to half way up the hull. In this manner the hull could rise up if pulled forward a little upon exiting.

There are lines drawings in a Popular Mechanics book of the day somewhere. There is also a link here to one built from the line drawings Magazine kit posted here.


Yes, it was a kit at some point around '64-65...Someone here has one on the site. Toona, I can't find the pics either.


Quote:
Jim did'nt design the Jr and it isn't the basis of the Donzi 16. Ray Hunt designed the Jr FOR Jim Wynne as a non-production wooden race/test bed for the Volvo outdrive. This wood boat was called the Wynne/Mill. Jim and Walt Walters, created an entirely new plug and mold for the 16. It has not been established if Aronow ever actually owned the Jr's design. We do know that Aronow's Formula Co. never built any. The Thunderbird/Formula Co. started production of Glass Wynne/Mills (Jrs) in '65 and the last production year I have heard of is '71. They are not as rare as I once thought and they are around if you look. With all the research Mike Aronow put into his book, this one little error on the design of the 16 is easy to overlook. The 16 isn't a copy. Its the original Donzi.


from Formula Junior


Quote:
RAY HUNT DID PATENT THE VEE HULL. THE MAJOR CLAIM OF HIS PATENT WAS A FLOODING KEEL WHICH WOULD SET THE CHINES ON THE WATER TO INCREASE STABILITY AT REST. HE SUED ALLMAND BOAT COMPANY IN 1968 FOR PATENT INFRINGEMENT ON BEHALF OF BERTRAM BOAT. I WAS THEN PRESIDENT OF HMMBBA, (HIALEAH MICKEY MOUSE BOATBUILDERS ASSN, AND SEEING THE FUTURE EXPANSION OF THE SUIT, GOT ALL THE GUYS TO CHIP IN $1000 EACH (BIG MONEY THEN!). WE HIRED OUR OWN ATTORNEYS. ONE OF OUR GUYS, DON WOLLARD, FOUND PRIOR ART WHICH KILLED THE PATENT.

HUNT DID NOT DESIGN THE WYM-MIL. JIM AND WALT DID. (I HELPED BUILD THE ORIGINAL BOAT AT ABBEY BOAT WORKS IN 1963) JIM RACED IT IN PARIS IN 1963.

ARONOW NEVER OWNED THE DESIGN. ARONOW NEVER SOLD THE DESIGN. T-BIRD BOUGHT IT FOR SPITE AFTER 1965, FROM WYNNE, WHO HAD SPLIT FROM WALTERS. SOUNDS LIKE A *&^%$#@ SOAP OPERA.

THE 16' WAS 100% ORIGINAL, AS WERE THE 19', 28' AND 35'. P.S. ANYONE WHO THINKS THE 16' LOOKS LIKE THE JUNIOR IS REASONABLY STUPID.

AB
__________________
BROWNIE




The Donzi 16 was several years in preperation however. We watched Jim Wynne and Tommy Sopwith drive early prototypes for the Six Hour Endurance Race through the steep chop of the Siene to a class win in Paris three years ago. Wynne repeated the performance two successive years at the Miami Nine Hour as well, and set a number of international records with the little 'Wyn Mill II' along the way."
Bill's article ended as follows:
" And when its rough and you still want to go, she can take it if you can. We remember the first time we saw this in action several years ago. A boisterous Bahama day had blown up for the Around New Providence Race after a flat-sea-go from Miami to Nassau. Running easily on the rough sea in a Formula 23 with Jim Wynne driving, we watched Briggs Cunningham jump his big 38 foot twin diesel cruiser out of the water occasionally in the bumby going. Then behind we saw a little rocket flying low over the water. Sure enough, there came the indomitalble duo, Cox and Joyce, driving Wyn-Mill for all they were worth, and passing the bigger stuff struggling through the seas.
That was a prototype, but now anyone can drive the real thing in a Donzi 16, if they feel up to it."

http://www.donzi.net/photos/WynnMill_Drawings_001sm.jpg
http://www.donzi.net/photos/WynnMill_Drawings_002sm.jpg
http://www.donzi.net/photos/WynMillHullsm.jpg

http://www.donzi.net/photos/Wynn-Mill_II.jpg
http://www.donzi.net/hull/unk_osaffell/img015.jpg

rustnrot
04-07-2005, 02:55 PM
Man that was quick. Great info. Anyone please post the link if possible to a higher resolution of the lines drawings. Better yet date of the Pop Mech issue! Anyone know the beam of that bad boy?

Lenny
04-07-2005, 03:07 PM
I have one in my yard. Problem is, I am not in my "yard" right now to measure it. Later on I will be :D

Geoo has the "GOOD" drawings. We were trying to buy sets of these reproduced byhim but I think with his 3 "kids" , (one 40 :D ) he has his hands full.

Formula Jr
04-07-2005, 03:24 PM
You gotta love the internet, it will preserve for all time every stupid, mis-guided thing I ever said!!!!!!!

Thank god Brownie is around to tell the real story.

rustnrot
04-07-2005, 03:37 PM
You know I did a search (hate it when that happens) and there is a thread here on the drawings. I said it then (but forgot) I would love a set of those drawings. Bribery?, coercion?,

Formula Jr
04-07-2005, 06:21 PM
I was at a high mountain lake in 2002 with the Formula Jr, when this older gentleman, the park caretaker, came up to me and said he had made a boat that looked just like mine from wood off a kit in the sixties. I thought that was kinda odd and didn't think too much about it - in hindsight I should have interviewed him. But when the plans showed up with pics of a completed kit boat, it was pretty exciting. I'd like a full set of these plans also to frame if it would help out the registry in some way.

Is DanA being serious here? - From another site..

"DanA
I owned the company that made seats for these boats after Aronow sold out to T-bird. The acquisition involved only the orginal F-233 and Formula Jr. T-bird was run by Dick Genth and they also acquired Drif-r-cruz houseboats in around '69 or '70 (they raced a 40' houseboat in a Miami Nassau Power Boat Race and it almost sank from sea water entering the hull vents; the Miami Herald sports writer, Jim Martenoff was aboard and wrote about the experience). After acquiring this line, T-bird produced only around 150 jrs. and stopped the line until several years later when they reintroduced it with 3 other Formulas (18' 21' approximate)."

That doesn't fit in with my knowledge. The FJs ran in production continously from late '65 to '71 and i've heard or seen production years of these from other people that fill this out. In other words there are 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, and 71 boats. But i've never heard of a '72 boat or a valid 64 boat. The 150 number doesn't make sense given the frequency that we keep finding them.

Lenny
04-07-2005, 07:53 PM
150 seems high to me Owen. Look at the X-18's. We DO hear of them quite often and there are 176-ish of them. I would tend to agree with the 150 or LESS number. I know of three, one mine, one yours and one in Mass.

That's it.

:confused:

Rusty, 6' 7" is your answer

Original ad, one of them (bad quality)

Easily my favorite FJ pic. Owens boat in Puget Sound.

Here is what the text says if your eyes are like mine ;

FORMULA JR

The Classiest, sassiest, ski-fun-competition boat made.
Fast, responsive, stable.
She's built and finished like a fine sports car and handles like one- See it....
and you'll understand why the Formula Jr. is fast becoming one of Americas most popular luxury sport boats!
Hull, one piece, fully straked, high impact fiberglass deep-V.

Centerline LOA 17'3"
Beam 6'7"
Standard Power 150 HP MerCruiser I/O (options to 200HP)

Formula Jr
04-07-2005, 08:30 PM
Well, One in California that Stan found, there's one at the Formula factory, there are three we have seen labled as Donzis on eBay. There is the Deep Creek MD Boat, from CM, The one in Pittsburg, a guy I met on a lake here that said he had one and sold it to a Texan, there are two others on the Chessy Bay and there are people i met at Tahoe that have seen or owned them. Two more on Design net. The merc ad boat. Big Grizzly says a friend of the family owned one. Its all just guesses really. Like I said, if you look, you find them in barns, back yards and the bone boat section of boat yards. and then there are all the people that come out of the blue in private e-mail to me that say they own one with out pics. And want to know something about them: About five more different boats.

But I do agree in the sense that some of these may be the same boats that people remember. So numbers are hard to varify.

gold-n-rod
04-07-2005, 08:32 PM
Yes, it was a kit at some point around '64-65...Someone here has one on the site. Toona, I can't find the pics either.

I miss Toona. :( :( :(

Lenny
04-07-2005, 08:41 PM
The "Formula" site complete with brochures dating back to '73 NEVER has any mention of them period in any of their line up. And in 1973 obviously they got hung up on cathedral hulls and went overboard so to speak.

http://www.formulaboats.com/content/vintage.aspx?type=0

Lenny
04-07-2005, 08:45 PM
ALSO interesting to note is that they show a starboard helm in the lines drawings and the boats ended up as port :confused:

Formula Jr
04-07-2005, 09:00 PM
That is interesting. But Starboard is traditional as a helm station. Being left handed, Starboard helms make more sense to me as my stronge arm can man the wheel. That is of course totally backwards of the intent of the starboard tiller.

Lenny
04-07-2005, 10:25 PM
Owen, we don't want to know about your "strong arm" :rolleyes:

:rlol:

Formula Jr
04-07-2005, 11:03 PM
My prefered station is a center console with my hands on the dash. LOL.
oh my....... did I just say dat?........ me bad...... ;)






Owen, we don't want to know about your "strong arm" :rolleyes:

:rlol:

BERTRAM BOY
04-08-2005, 08:31 AM
Owen and Lenny,
There is a Jr. a couple of towns over from me. I 'll try to get a pic in the next week or so.

rustnrot
12-06-2005, 02:45 PM
Thought I'd bring this thread back from the dead. A friend of mine who has SolidWorks ginned up this frame model today. Work will continue on this at low priority in order to come up with working plans.

Formula Jr
12-06-2005, 08:39 PM
That is strange about the Formula site having absolutely NO mention of
the JR. Even though they have one in the Lobby of their office building in Decatur, Indiana. And since they stopped producing them in '71, they don't show up in the old lit list. The sub 150 total number might be right with only a four or five year run. The more I think about them, the more I'm seeing that these were hasty made glass boats. The surviving number of well cared for boats may be in the twenties. I've never seen one in person that was really clean and original.

Rootsy
12-07-2005, 06:40 AM
Thought I'd bring this thread back from the dead. A friend of mine who has SolidWorks ginned up this frame model today. Work will continue on this at low priority in order to come up with working plans.


gotta love 3D solid modeling :)

RickSE
12-07-2005, 11:21 AM
Rustnrot, I'm also a SolidWorker. Sounds like you have it under control but let me know if you need any help.

Lenny
12-07-2005, 01:28 PM
Rick, is that your new shifter in matching HP500 blue? :D

RickSE
12-07-2005, 05:16 PM
Lenny, it's my polymetric razmatazzer.

rustnrot
12-15-2005, 08:27 AM
Yesterday I get an email from a guy in Norway who has one of the original Wyn-Mill II's from the early 1960's. Originally a plywood skinned boat of spartan accomodations for racing, he did an overlay of mahogany and added a windshield as well as other bling.
Catch your breath before viewing the pictures!

warren
09-12-2010, 08:59 PM
The Wynn Mill plans were offered by Magnum Marine at the end of an artical in Boating magizine back in the late 60's. My father did purchase these plans and built one in the garage. I posted the pic of the boat without the hatch cover. That pic dates back to around 1976. Still have the boat in my garage.

Greg Guimond
09-12-2010, 10:54 PM
Pictures! Pictures!:clap:

warren
09-12-2010, 11:12 PM
I will try to post some pics soon.

wooden donzi
12-07-2010, 11:05 AM
I also have a prototype of the Wynn Mill II. My dad wrote an article about it in the 60's called "The Embarrassing Donzi" It is in another link, look for the link about

The Donzi Registry (http://www.donzi.net/forums/index.php) > Information (http://www.donzi.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=7) > Talk About Other Boats (http://www.donzi.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=16) Wynn Mill II Replica Race Boat from Formula Jr. Hull

lars
12-08-2010, 01:22 AM
I will try to post some pics soon.

Link; http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?p=218494#post218494

lars
12-08-2010, 01:26 AM
I also have a prototype of the Wynn Mill II. My dad wrote an article about it in the 60's called "The Embarrassing Donzi" It is in another link, look for the link about

The Donzi Registry (http://www.donzi.net/forums/index.php) > Information (http://www.donzi.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=7) > Talk About Other Boats (http://www.donzi.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=16) Wynn Mill II Replica Race Boat from Formula Jr. Hull


Link; http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?p=584847#post584847