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blackhawk
03-29-2005, 10:22 PM
What kind of speeds could I expect with a 350 Mag(300hp) or MX 6.2(320 hp) and a Bravo drive? Does the boat need tabs? What is the freeeboard compard to a 22? And is it a quicker turning, more agile boat than the 22?

Thanks

txtaz
03-30-2005, 03:31 AM
Scott,
I got 62 GPS with full fuel and 2 people and a bad plug wire. After fixing the wire I get 68 on the seedo which is about 3mph high.
I think I could hit 70 gps with 1/4 tank and one person.
I have tabs on my 18 and don't know what it would handle like without. I use them all the time. As far as freeboard, it is a little lower than the 22. I don't know the numbers but it is a few inches.
Lastly, a smaller boat is generally quicker in turning than a larger boat.
Hope this helps,
Wes

Formula Jr
03-30-2005, 03:36 AM
Tabs on an 18. YES!!!!! Yes. and are they on yet?
300hp, 62 or so.
320hp, 65 or so.

The 18 is a very different boat than the 22.
i like the 18 better, but thats just me cause I like the
connectedness with the water. The 22 is a much more capable boat and can pretty much take anything you want to ride through with out thinking too much about it. I LIKE thinking about the water. So I tend to like the smaller boats. If you are trying to decide the 18 or the 22, you also have to consider that the 22 is a much more expensive option. For every extra foot of boat, you have to add a Boat Unit ($1000) a year to run it and keep it up. Thats just because you need a bigger garage, a bigger tow vechicle, and these days, pay alot more in gas. Other than ride, the 22 doesn't give anything the 18 can't. Both are day boats with out cabin.

Lenny
03-30-2005, 04:01 AM
The 18 is a handfull with the right power. Get the right power and take pictures of your "grin" .

I agree with Owen on this one. :)

MOP
03-30-2005, 07:05 AM
I have had a 16 and the good fortune of being able to play with a friends 18, it had a worked 383. I think it did upper 60's it was like a sports car on rails a big step above the 16, I gace one alot of though but ended up going to a 22. All classics have their own personality and all are good in the own way.

Phil

Mr X
03-30-2005, 07:11 AM
Scott,
I got 62 GPS with full fuel and 2 people and a bad plug wire. After fixing the wire I get 68 on the seedo which is about 3mph high.
I think I could hit 70 gps with 1/4 tank and one person.
I have tabs on my 18 and don't know what it would handle like without. I use them all the time. As far as freeboard, it is a little lower than the 22. I don't know the numbers but it is a few inches.
Lastly, a smaller boat is generally quicker in turning than a larger boat.
Hope this helps,
Wes
Wes.....I dont know what else is going on with the boat.
I had it running 74 on GPS when Tom bought it.......???

marcdups
03-30-2005, 07:58 AM
LOOK who was driving there "CAPT" :lookaroun :lookaroun :biggrin: , I will post some pics of "Mauritian Donzies" when I get back !!!!

Scubado
03-30-2005, 08:43 AM
You will find there's a huge difference in fuel economy between the 350 Mag MPI and the 6.2 Liter...

txtaz
03-30-2005, 08:44 AM
Ted, Maybe it's a good thing it doesn't go 74 any more. I just might have hurt myself before getting enough seat time. :shocking: :shocking:
I actually think the local boat shop did something to it when they were fixing the bent prop shaft. When I got it back, it did not run like it did before I took it in and there were several unrelated problems with it that "just" popped up while at the shop.
I have a buddy who runs a shop on the coast who is going to go over the drive and ECM. I'll get it ironed out and then take a blistering ride down the IWW to Port Aransas.
Wes

blackhawk
03-30-2005, 09:13 AM
I had my 22 Classic Blackhawk for 5 years so no, I am not trying to decide between an 18 and a 22. I am just looking for a comparison because I am going to buy a smaller boat. I'm either going to buy an outboart tunnel hull(which I am starting to steer away from), a Classic 18 or a Four Winns Unlimited 19. I have had plenty of seat time in the Unlimited so I know all about them. Never been in a Classic 18 though.

I'm kind of surprised at the comments saying the 18 needs the tabs and can be a driver's boat. I wouldn't have thought that. How does the 18 handle "confused" waters? And how about bigger water? Like 3-4' rollers?

Formula Jr, where did you get those numbers? They are lower than I expected.

JimG
03-30-2005, 09:53 AM
The 18 needs tabs?

boatnut
03-30-2005, 10:03 AM
I have owned both (two 18's, one 22) We still have an 18 that we have owned for 32 years. Overall the 22 is a prettier boat as it has the length to beam ratio needed for that special look. However, after somewhere between 3 and 4 thousand hours of running these boats I find the 18 to be the most fun. It is an easier boat to get into a "rhythem" with the water conditions you are in. It is more responsive than the 22 and it seems to have an ability to ride up, over and around swells etc. that I have never experienced in any other boat (including direct drives, vee-drives, outboards etc.). It is always fun to drive and I have never felt intimidated by any water conditions in my two 18's. True the 22 can handle worse conditions at a greater speed with less effort but the experience seems to be more remote and with less feeling than the 18 offers.
Some details that may have influenced my conclusions: my 18's were both only capable of mid to high 50's, my 22 was capable of mid 60's. I have never had tabs on the 18's (still consider doing that someday). You can't go wrong with either of these boats (we all know that) and I wish I had kept my 22 also. The 18 is a boat that offers looks, performance and fun beyond any boat I am aware of. My last comment, if you really want to spend a lot of time over 70mph the extra running surface of the 22 is very important for stability. Ed

blackhawk
03-30-2005, 12:29 PM
Thanks Ed, I agree with the looks, there's just something about that long bow! My blackhawk was beautiful!!! But, I wasn't using it enough to justify that kind/size of boat. I want a less expensive, easy to drive, quick accelerating boat with decent top end that can cut through the slop and handle some 3-4 footers on occasion.

Glad to hear that you don't have tabs on your 18s. Some guys say they use theirs all the time. I wonder if they become necessary at higher speeds?

boatnut
03-30-2005, 12:49 PM
Glad to hear that you don't have tabs on your 18s. Some guys say they use theirs all the time. I wonder if they become necessary at higher speeds?

Adding tabs on my 18 is on my low priority to-do list. I have been in other 18s at speeds into the low 70's without tabs. I have found the 18 to tend to chine walk at higher speeds (which is influenced by drive trim of course) so maybe tabs would help that somewhat. I have felt I could use tabs at times when I get passengers/weight unbalanced -- I have at times moved people around and it would be easier to adjust a tab (and less rude to the fat lady passenger :) ). I also have a set of Kiekhaffer afterplanes (large racing tabs) that I once used on a 27' Magnum hull we raced. I have thought that these large tabs if they fit on the transom of an 18 (even if they are set up without the hydraulics in a fixed position) would give another 18" of running surface and possilby make the 18 a much better high speed hull. However the boat is so damn nice as is, I never get around to these experiments. Ed

blackhawk
03-30-2005, 01:17 PM
Sounds like tabs are more of a convenience than a necessity. I could care less about chine walk, that doesn't bother me a bit.

Sam
03-30-2005, 03:33 PM
Check with Randy Oak, if your planing on running on Lk St Clair Randy probably has more seat time in an 18 than anyone else. Personally I would be highly suspect of anyone that tells you that an 18 can truly handle "TRUE 3-4 footers" unless they were wide fat rollers. I'm sure you could pick your way through them if you took your time but to blast through them you will pay the price. You might also want to check in with Doug Luvins although "Old Yeller" is far from stock she's still an 18.

Good Luck
Sam

JimG
03-30-2005, 03:53 PM
Personally I would be highly suspect of anyone that tells you that an 18 can truly handle "TRUE 3-4 footers" unless they were wide fat rollers.

I gotta agree with Sam on this, my boat stays on the trailer in those conditions. And I put over 100 hours a season on mine!

I'll take the Thoroughbred out in those conditions on occasion, though! :biggrin:

JimG

blackhawk
03-30-2005, 04:02 PM
That's what I meant. 3-4' "rollers". Big waves with rythem and space in between, like you get on Lake Michigan. I would think an 18 would easily be able to handle those, but I wanted to make sure.

blackhawk
03-30-2005, 04:08 PM
I guess I should have been more specific. But I've only been in "rollers" that big. 3-4' "slop chop" would be ugly!!! :eek:

JimG
03-30-2005, 04:54 PM
All we get on Galveston Bay is "slop chop"! It's very shallow (6'-7'), and it creates some NASTY conditions. If we run offshore, in the gulf, we can get into the rollers...

Formula Jr
03-30-2005, 05:06 PM
My numbers are what you would expect with a stock, non-thru hull exhaust, a stock cupped 22/23 inch prop and a Bravo. Since you didn't mention any performance work, that is what you would get. Take those same engines, and add a good exhaust system, a stainless prop, run the boat light at sea level in a small chop and you'll see higher numbers.

There are so many advantages to using tabs that I hardly know where to begin. My OPINION is that they improve, if used correctly, the way the boat handles to a degree that not having them is a tremendous loss of potential control. They are much more important than just correcting list or running attitude. With the 18, there is a sweet spot you can find with the drive trimmed up and slight down trim on the tabs. This sweet spot can be found on most, but not all, over powered small vees. You will know when you have it dialed in correctly for a particular sea state cause you will feel like you are in a much bigger boat and all your launches and landings will have a stability you can't sense with out the tabs. Mostly, they eliminate roll. Yes you can get by without them. But you can also get by with out power steering, or drive trim or a lot of other things. Tabs open up a big door to improving how a boat handles and in more choppy seas they do become neccesary if you want to run fast or HAVE to run fast.

Long rollers don't present any kind of difficulty to, really, any kind of boat. Except maybe sail boats in stale air. Then they are a big pain as the boom trys to jibe on you.

There are different kinds of chop. Wind effect chop can be bad in any small boat with low free board as the period of the waves can be very close and they will just go right over your bow or transom and sink you if you don't get back on top of them. I found that out on the Columbia River one day where i was forced to run the tops, getting off plane meant sinking. And i could set my tabs to correct the 45 mile a hour quartering wind so I wasn't running sideways. Without the tabs, I don't know if I could have made it back.

KRAVEN
03-30-2005, 05:18 PM
I am running the 377 scorpion with 25p Labbed prop with Martini Marine tabs,best run to date 74.9 gps.2002 18 with 125hrs. :hyper:

blackhawk
03-30-2005, 06:33 PM
JimG, 6'-7' "slop chop"! YIKES!!!

Formula Jr, I've never been in a 18 Classic so the only thing I have to compare the speeds to are my friends Four Winns Unlimited 191(19'). His boat with a 5.8 MPI(275hp) and a Volvo Duoprop runs 63-65 on GPS. I figured a Classic 18 with a 300hp 350 mag to be the same or better.

I have several hours behind the wheel of this boat and the boat never needs tabs at all. I've run his boat in 2 1/2 slop coming from every direction wide open and it ate it up. I've been in the boat(with him driving) in 4-5 foot rollers and had a blast. We were mainly quartering them at about 50 mph and every once in awhile he'd turn into them and drop the hammer and that boat would be in the air for at least 2 seconds, fly perfectly flat, land smooth and he'd be on the throttle again for the next one coming up. It was incredible. One of the wildest rides I've ever been on. We played out there for over an hour.

The boat is VERY drive trim sensitive which I like. No tabs to mess with, just air the boat out with the drive, let her dance and hang on. His boat has more hook in the hull that a Classic which makes the boat ride very flat, which may be why it doesn't need tabs?

If I get another V bottom it will be a Classic 18 or an Unlimited 191(maybe a 171)Obviously after owning a Donzi for 5 years I want to stay in the family, but I know nothing about the 18. Which is why I am looking for some input on the 18.

blackhawk
03-30-2005, 06:44 PM
I am running the 377 scorpion with 25p Labbed prop with Martini Marine tabs,best run to date 74.9 gps.2002 18 with 125hrs. :hyper:

Now that's bad azz! There's a couple more mph there! ;)

Lenny
03-30-2005, 07:07 PM
Ranmans' (Randy Oaks) 18 has a STOCK 350 Mag MPI and a Bravo. It runs 72 on GPS and he has got to be over 200 pounds ;)

No one knows how it does it but it does. Seen it.

Magicallbill
03-30-2005, 07:52 PM
As I've posted previously,Jason and I have 2 18's a 99 with 350-300HP Mag,and my 377 Scorpion,'02.
His 99 has the Alpha,mine a Bravo XZ.
We have no GPS;his Gaffrig reads a top of 66-67,and mine,74mph.
His handles great at all speeds,mine starts jumping around at 70-plus.
The hulls being equal,I would attribute my squirrliness to extra weight aft(Dual Battery option,plus the heavier Bravo.)
I have noticeably less freeboard than his, which is kind of a pain in steep chop,and large wakes can come over the stern. Therefore,his is the better choice in rough stuff,although the ride is similar on plane.
I have a faster cruise,the 377 is a GREAT engine,but is it worth $20 Grand more than the 350-powered 18?

I'm still thinking about it......

It's neat to be able to compare the rigs,but no matter how you size them up, they're an absolute hoot from the moment you hit the gas.
Magical Bill

mattyboy
03-30-2005, 08:12 PM
there's no hook in the 18 hull, 16 yes but that under way is hardly in the water just used to plane off and supposedly help the slow speed porpoise??

I hear tabs are very useful on the sharp keeled 18s
http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=223

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=235

blackhawk
03-30-2005, 08:19 PM
Thanks for all the great input!

Why would your 02 have less freeboard than his 99?

"I have run in some pretty rough stuff with much bigger boats, and they cant believe I keep up with them" I love to hear stuff like that!!! :D

gold-n-rod
03-30-2005, 08:20 PM
If I get another V bottom it will be a Classic 18 or an Unlimited 191(maybe a 171)Obviously after owning a Donzi for 5 years I want to stay in the family, but I know nothing about the 18. Which is why I am looking for some input on the 18.

Scott, does this conversation mean your 'Hawk has a new home?

I would think being from Four Winns country that you'd have a better than average chance to snag a nice U-boat.

mattyboy
03-30-2005, 08:25 PM
Thanks for all the great input!

Why would your 02 have less freeboard than his 99?

" :D

gravity is a bitch

Sam
03-30-2005, 08:26 PM
Poodle, in relation to the bottom of the boat where are yout tabs now.

THX
Sam

blackhawk
03-30-2005, 08:31 PM
Yes, the BH is gone. Very bittersweet. A few years ago I would have had an excellent chance to score a U boat but their locater doesn't go back to 1996 anymore. But, when I do find one they can give me a complete history on the boat.

I found a couple so far but not the 5.8 MPI with through hulls and duoprop. The only one I have found was painted to the 1997 color scheme. :(

blackhawk
03-30-2005, 08:49 PM
gravity is a bitch

Isn't freeboard the distance between the bottom of the cockpit to the lowest part of the side of the boat in the cockpit, not the relationship between the side of the boat and the water? Or am I wrong?

mattyboy
03-30-2005, 08:51 PM
Yes, the BH is gone. Very bittersweet. A few years ago I would have had an excellent chance to score a U boat but their locater doesn't go back to 1996 anymore. But, when I do find one they can give me a complete history on the boat.

I found a couple so far but not the 5.8 MPI with through hulls and duoprop. The only one I have found was painted to the 1997 color scheme. :(


thrown under the bus again :rolleyes:
move it to the other boat section

mattyboy
03-30-2005, 08:54 PM
Isn't freeboard the distance between the bottom of the cockpit to the lowest part of the side of the boat in the cockpit, not the relationship between the side of the boat and the water? Or am I wrong?
in the boat or outside the boat I think it is relation ship to the side of the boat ( gunwale ) and the water

blackhawk
03-30-2005, 08:56 PM
thrown under the bus again :rolleyes:
move it to the other boat section

EASY! I haven't bought one yet! :D

It will either be a U boat or an 18.

blackhawk
03-30-2005, 08:59 PM
Freeboard definition: The vertical distance on the hull between the water line and the deck edge .

Looks like I was wrong! My bad.

Magicallbill
03-31-2005, 02:18 AM
Blackhawk,
Sorry for the confusion- My Scorp has lower freeboard astern than Jason's 99 because of the extra weight of the Batteries&the Bravo. I think someone told me on the Registry here that the 377 is no heavier than the 350.
Talking about the tabs vs. no tabs discussion,my dealer recommended tabs for my Scorpion,but I don't use them at high speeds;the reason being I have no time to mess with them as I'm holding the wheel&the throttle,trying to keep the thing in the water. If I started adjusting tabs, I'd be in Davey Jones Locker....
MB

blackhawk
03-31-2005, 08:07 AM
Blackhawk,
Sorry for the confusion- My Scorp has lower freeboard astern than Jason's 99 because of the extra weight of the Batteries&the Bravo. I think someone told me on the Registry here that the 377 is no heavier than the 350.
Talking about the tabs vs. no tabs discussion,my dealer recommended tabs for my Scorpion,but I don't use them at high speeds;the reason being I have no time to mess with them as I'm holding the wheel&the throttle,trying to keep the thing in the water. If I started adjusting tabs, I'd be in Davey Jones Locker....
MB

Adjusting tabs at full speed, that sounds familiar!!! :D

No confusion on your part with the freeboard that was my bad.

KRAVEN
03-31-2005, 08:15 AM
I have to agree with Magic Bill,My 02 Scorpion has less freeboard also due to the Bravo XZ. :cool!:

tamburello
03-31-2005, 08:17 AM
Well, I can't add too much that hasn't been said already but I can tell ya what it's like running on Lake MI in an 18. 1-2 foot chop with an occasional 3 foot rogue, no problem and a big grin factor. 3-4 foot chop, it can be done but it'll get a bit uncomfortable after a while and you get a facefull of spray over the bow every now and then. If you're talking about 3-4 foot rollers that you get the day after the lake was kicked up but is now flattening out, those are fun and not uncomortable if you get into a good rythme.

I don't have tabs and with a little tactful shuffling of crew members to ballance out the boat it rides, flies, and lands level with no chine walk to my WOT speed of 63 mph. I switched from a 3 blade QSS to a 4 blade turbo and it felt like it added four feet to the hull, it's now much more stable at speed in the bumps.

If you want a ride in an 18 on Lake MI, you're welcome to swing by Holland and we'll go for a spin.

- Jeff

Ranman
03-31-2005, 08:44 AM
I agree with Jeff (Tamburello). I have tabs but don't really use them. I control ride attitude with the drive trim only. If it's rough, put the drive down and the nose comes down. If the water flattens out, trim her up and go. In an 18 you need balls to keep the hammer down and trim it up in a 2' slop. I run in Lake St. Clair quite a bit and the 18 will handle the average 1' - 2' slop day OK, though it's still bumpy. When it gets nasty out there 2' - 4', you won't have fun for very long. The boat will take it, but you won't. I've come in from the lake thinking I was going to piss blood. On one occasion the lake was exceptionally bad, IMO I was in a 4+ foot wave situation for a couple of miles. I couldn't even safely get the boat up on plane. I had to keep it in the water with enough tthrottle to keep the nose way up ot the waves would crash over the bow and into my lap. Not a fun ride, but I made it.

Anyway, I run a 1997 18 with a 350MAG / Bravo and a labbed Mirage+. 72 might be a tad optimistic, I'd be comfortable saying 70+. Lately, I've turned to a Hydromotive QIV prop. It's more comfortable in the rough water but will only top out around 67 - 68.

I can't speak for the rollers, but I think JEff has covered that part. If you're still looking in the summer, come down to LSC. We'll take you out for a couple of hours on an 18 so you can decide.

BTW: IMO you'd eventually kick yoruself in the ass for going from a Donzi to a Four Winns U boat.

boatnut
03-31-2005, 08:50 AM
Wow, this has been an interesting thread. We've learned the 18 can take any water, as long as its not in the range of 3'-4 ' slop chop. Tabs are nice (to pee from) but not needed; however, for some they are a neccessity and were the reason one of our friends made it to a safe harbor. Freeboard is as freeboard are. Of course there are reasons for the different perspectives, such as describing a 60mph 18 experience differs from a 75mph experience. Also some 18's have hooks (maybe not planned) and others do not, I haven't seen one with rocker yet but that may exist also. Many of us cannot adjust
(underway) drive trim, others can. On one point we have concensus, we are all passionate about these boats which says it all. Whether it is windshields, swim platforms, tabs, wave height surmounted, or speed achieved we all have our stories that we are sticking to. We probably all can also agree on politics, religion and what social security needs. What we all have are experiences in these boats under different conditions and it is great we have this forum to share them --- when I first owned Donzi's there was no way in hell you could have this discussion and get all this first hand knowledge. We plan a major restoration soon on our 18 (mainly due to aging mechanical components and gas tank fear from reading this forum) and will soon face the decision of saving all our Holmon & Moody heritage including the Volvo drive (the boat is pristine now, original gelcoat etc. etc.) or updating to a new Mercruiser package (which will put us up into the speeds discussed in this thread). As we work through the decision I hope you guys will all assist, I respect all of your input. Ed

Hansel
03-31-2005, 11:38 AM
If you want a ride in an 18 on Lake MI, you're welcome to swing by Holland and we'll go for a spin.

- Jeff



Are you willing to extend the same courtesy to another prospective 18 owner?

I live in the Zeeland area and would love to get some minutes in an 18c on Lake Mac and the Big Lake sometime.

Let me know what you think.

-Hansel

blackhawk
03-31-2005, 12:16 PM
Thanks for the input Randy. If I am still looking as spring approaches I may take you up on the offer. But I have the itch pretty bad right now. The plan was to sell the boat and take a year off to finish the house, but I can't see myself going a summer wothout a boat!!! I sold the "race sled" last week so now I'm thinking take a year off snowmobiling and get the house done then! That's much easier to do. :D

Anyway, Boatnut is right, this has been a great thread! I have learned a lot. I have already talked myself out of a tunnel outboard so it's either a 18 or an Unlimited 191(thinking the 171 is too small). Even though it's not a Donzi it's a great boat. It's built like a rock and I've had hours of seat time both behind the wheel and as a passenger so I know the boat very well.

Hopefully you guys will still let me post if I buy a "copy"! :D

Ranman
03-31-2005, 01:15 PM
What would you want to spend on say a '97 18 Classic with MAG 350 / Bravo One and 260 hours? :idea:

mattyboy
03-31-2005, 02:21 PM
Anyway, Boatnut is right, this has been a great thread! I have learned a lot. I have already talked myself out of a tunnel outboard so it's either a 18 or an Unlimited 191(thinking the 171 is too small). Even though it's not a Donzi it's a great boat. It's built like a rock and I've had hours of seat time both behind the wheel and as a passenger so I know the boat very well.

Hopefully you guys will still let me post if I buy a "copy"! :D


only in the other boat talk section ;) :) :tongue:

Formula Jr
03-31-2005, 02:47 PM
Blackhawk, as discussed in several past threads, the U boats are not copies of the classic 18s or 16s. They were developed as updated replacements for these boats while donzi was under the big corp tent. The 16 had been dropped and I suspect that the 18 was to be dropped also in favor of the U boat siblings. The stability you felt while running rollers in the U boat was due to the Duo prop and its lack of torque effect on launches and landings. So in a way, you are comparing apples to oranges if you're settling on one of the two. If the U boat you are looking at isn't a duo-prop then the pro/con is weighted in favor of the Donzi 18 with a bravo I.
I certainly like all of your choices, even the OB tunnel, if its a DUO 17 tunnel, yet that boat you'll only be taking out on relatively calm days and most definitely not on days with predicted gusty winds. But that boat will easily run in the high 80's.

This why we go crazy and buy lots of different boats.
And eventually let our lawns grow out of control, our houses fall to disrepair, lose touch with our spouses, raid the retirement funds and end up here babbling incoherently about GREAT DAYS on the water.

:)

blackhawk
03-31-2005, 06:49 PM
Formula Jr, you're close! ;) You are right, they are not copies.

blackhawk
04-01-2005, 05:04 AM
And as far as the duo-prop eliminating the torque steer I totally agree. But I am referring to how flat the boat rides(no bow lift) and how level the boat flies. Maybe a 18 rides and flies the same. To be honest if I go with a U boat I don't know if I will get the duo-prop or not. It probably depends on the boat. I'm not going to pass up a super clean boat with a SX to buy a beat up boat with a duo-prop. Plus, if I ever re-power down the road prop selection is limited. And the duo-props are awesome for acceleration and eliminating torque steer. But on the U boat they love to dance when trimmed out! Like I said, good thing chine walk doesn't bother me!!! :D

Randy, I don't know what I would pay for an 18. Honestly, some of the prices I see are hard to grasp after I gave my blackhawk away!

blackhawk
04-01-2005, 01:31 PM
Formula Jr, how did you get so knowledgeable about the U boats? Most people think they are just another cheap "pop".

Formula Jr
04-01-2005, 05:22 PM
Aside from the usual reading of Chicken entrails, I sometime augment my knowledge base with the trusty Ouija Board. And failing to find relavant information using these two powerful information technologies I can rely on my vast collection of Bazooka Joe gum wrappers.

blackhawk
04-01-2005, 06:10 PM
Aside from the usual reading of Chicken entrails, I sometime augment my knowledge base with the trusty Ouija Board. And failing to find relavant information using these two powerful information technologies I can rely on my vast collection of Bazooka Joe gum wrappers.

LOL

And what are these things you speak of in your previous post? Lawns? Retirement funds? Spouses? I've heard of such things, but never actually had any of them! :D