BIG BIG Problem - Bahama Project

[Legend]

I am finally cpmpleting my project....at least I thought I was. The engine (350 MPI Horizon) was installed last weekend (March 5th and 6th) and after checking every thing twice we decided to "fire-her-up" pure thunder on the third try. The engine ran very well on Monday and Tuesday. We ran the engine about 4 times for approximately 10 -15 minutes in preparation for our sea trial. On Wednesday evening while the egine was running at idle speed she started to run very rough. We immediately shut her off and rechecked the wiring and connections. On Thursday we began a series of tests and discovered that the #3 and #5 cylinders were not firing. The cylinder block was very cold on these two cylinders compared to the others. We checked the spark plugs and they were firing properly. We checked the injectors to see if they were clogged. We swapped the injectors with the good injectors and when we started the engine the problem persisted on the same two cylinders (#3 & #5). I checked the current to all of the injectors and noticed that the pulse to the #3 and #5 cylinders were not as strong as the other cylinders. I placed a noid light on all the injector connections and the #3 and #5 cylinders were not working. I checked the compression and that was the same for all cylinders. While the engine was running I removed the spark plug wires and there would be no change in RPM for the #3 and #5 cylinders but if I removed the spark plug wires for any of the other cylinders the RPM would drop and then increase when the spark plug wire was reconnected. The engine was purchased brand new in Florida but the company where the engine was purchased has neglected to register my engine with Mercruiser. Mercruiser Int'l has directed me to the Latin America and Caribbean office and they have promised to contact the local Mercruaiser representative who have not called me yet.....almost 1 week. The Local Mercruiser Dealer is not able to help because of lack of a testing equipment.
I have been able to isloate the problem to the ECM which has been removed and forwarded to the company that I purchased the engine from. The are going to send the ECM to Mercury Marine for testing etc which can take anyware from 4 to 6 weeks. Meanwhile the company is giving me the run-around and not returning my calls to confirm wheather or not this is covered under warranty.

[Morgan's Cloud]

Legend ,

Sorry to hear that , but then again it would'nt be a boat if something was'nt wrong with it huh ?

A couple of years back there was a problem with the power packs on a number of outboards and Merc replaced them under warranty after it became obvious that the problem was theirs.

I had a major problem with Merc back in 2000 and it was the same runaround with the Latin American service division etc etc. Same sort of format actually .. the local dealer had'nt registered the engine and so on. The Latin American service division's involvement accomplished absolutely nothing and they rarely or never returned calls/e-mails or faxes. I had to go to the highest office in the land .. designed to take care of problems like this and they were useless as well ....

I might add, that our problems were originally created by Merc themselves.

It was strange how they were quick to accept our "International US dollars" but we soon became an 'International' problem over which they had no jurisdiction !

I don't think you will have too much of a problem if what you have described is the case, but don't wait on them too call you !

If this goes nowhere let me know and Ill supply you with a bit of extra help ..

Steve

[MOP]

Good to see another good Islander came to give you solace, even here in the states there are times Merc drives us up a wall. The customers think we are to blame until we give them the reps number, the reps love that tactic!!!!

Phil

[TOPSY II]

Good to see another good Islander came to give you solace, even here in the states there are times Merc drives us up a wall. The customers think we are to blame until we give them the reps number, the reps love that tactic!!!!

Phil

Hmmmm. I'm new to this, but I think it's REAL CURIOUS that another one of our brother Donzi owners, sucked the valves on #3 and #5 just a couple of days ago...may be just a "co-ink-a-dink", but given the fact that we've got 8 choices to do that kinda thing, it struck me as odd that you're having problems with the very same two cylinders.

Maybe you guys should compare notes.

GOOD LUCK!

Topsy II

[Legend]

Hmmmm. I'm new to this, but I think it's REAL CURIOUS that another one of our brother Donzi owners, sucked the valves on #3 and #5 just a couple of days ago...may be just a "co-ink-a-dink", but given the fact that we've got 8 choices to do that kinda thing, it struck me as odd that you're having problems with the very same two cylinders.

Maybe you guys should compare notes.

GOOD LUCK!

Topsy II


Thanks for the tip. Do you have a contact name and/or number ....I would like to "compare notes". Also, what sort of work needs to be done when one encounters "stucked valves".

Legend

[joseph m. hahnl]

Hmmmm. I'm new to this, but I think it's REAL CURIOUS that another one of our brother Donzi owners, sucked the valves on #3 and #5 just a couple of days ago...may be just a "co-ink-a-dink", but given the fact that we've got 8 choices to do that kinda thing, it struck me as odd that you're having problems with the very same two cylinders.


Topsy II

yah but!!! his problem was mechanical not electrical.

i've been looking for remanucactured engines on the net and they come with a 1yr to 2yr unlimited warranty.:wrench: is there some kind of comunication break down with unlimited warranty:wrench: :wrench: :wrench: . seems to me the local dealer you bought it from holds all of the liabilty it would be their job to get reimbursed from whom ever they got the engine from.after all you did sighn the contract "sales agreement " with them. i would think you could presuade them :fire: to rethink it or a law suit may arise. make them give you the part of the shelf and they can dicker with the bureaucracy

[TOPSY II]

Thanks for the tip. Do you have a contact name and/or number ....I would like to "compare notes". Also, what sort of work needs to be done when one encounters "stucked valves".

Legend

If memory serves, I think it was G-Force88 ( member) who had the problem, (check Member List for contact info.) As for what to do: only thing I know is replace the valves, check the cylinders, rings, pistons etc for any scoring, call Merc...(get in THEIR pocket!!) :rolleyes: :rolleyes: . Seriously though, great point raised re: The Dealer you bought the engine from should handle the hassle, and drop another motor in for you, and off you go.

Topsy II

[Legend]

Just when I thought things were bad they got worse. The company that I bought the engine package from acknowledged that everything was under warranty. They agreed to have the ECM replaced....yeah right. The catsh was that I would have to pay for a brand new ECM and they would send the old ECM to Merc for testing (4 to 6 weeks for results). If the ECM turns out to be faulty then they would credit me for the cost of the new ECM plus labour, however, if the ECM is okay then I am stuck with two ECM's and out-of-pocket for the cost. Anyway, I agreed, and I have actually received the new ECM. I installed it carefully thinking that all my troubles were over...but then things turned for the worse. I cranked her and she just would NOT start. I checked and rechecked all my connections, and the engine would not start. I narrowed my problems down to two things.......spark and fuel. I checked the injector connections with my noid tester and not one damn injector indicated a pulse.....major stress. I then checked for spark and not one of the eight indicated spark.........time for some rum. With the old ECM at least I got fuel and spark...the problem with the old ECM was the #3 and #5 cylinders.......I am so frustrated that I just closed the hatch and went inside to coooool offfff.
Now that my blood pressure has dropped I am opend to suggestions from my fellow members.


Legend

[Dave_N]

Can you reinstall the old ECM? I'm confused why the ECM was replaced. The ECM only has two injector driver circuits, one drives the injectors for cylinders 2,3,5, and 8, and the other drives 1,4,6, and 7.

A failure of one of the driver circuits in the ECM would take out all four injectors in that group, not just two. Failure of only two would suggest to me injectors, wireing and/or connectors.

Dave

[Legend]

As mentioned in my initial post the none Mercruiser Dealers here on the island have the up-to-date equipment to test my engine so I ordered the Diacom EFI Diagnostic Software from Rida Technologies Inc. in Chicago. I will install the software on my laptop this evening and troubleshoot/diagnose the engine problems. I will keep everyone informed as this saga continues.


Legend

[harbormaster]

Being in Nassau has itown set of problems for sure. If there is anything I can do for you on this shore, let me know. Do you need to borrow any working ignition parts?

[Dave_N]

Legend,

I have had the Diacom software for 3 1/2 years, and have used it for trouble shooting many EFI systems including ECM/PCM555 systems. It takes a little time to learn how to use the software, but it is a "must have" for ECM555 systems like yours. However, it is not always possible to diagnose a system with just the Diacom software and a laptop. These systems and very complex and even with the software you will have a very hard time without the proper service manuals. The part numbers for the manuals you should get are 90-864260001 (#31 - 5.0/5.7/6.2l MPI Gas Engines) and 90-864573 (#36 - ECM555 Diagnostics).

http://www.hometown.aol.com/newprtdave/Diacom10

Dave

[Legend]

Many Thanks for the offers and assistance Harbourmaster and Dave N. I have installed the program and ran a self test that resulted in some error codes that I need to review. Dave N thanks for the numbers on the needed manuals. I ordered them last week but the expected delivery date is next week Friday. I would realy like to be able to contact you to discuss the error codes and possible solutions. Please advise if that is ok and I will call while I have the engine liinked to my laptop. For startes I am getting errors when I run the fuel injector test as well as the coil test. As for the fuel injector test I am not gettting a response from the # 4 and 7 cylinders and as for the coil test I am errors on the about three of the eight cylinders. I will try and post the error codes as indicated in the program. One question though.......Are the injectors the same as the injectors on a GM vehicle (car) motor or are they different for marine applications.

Regards,

Legend

[BUIZILLA]

There may or may not be a Rochester number on the injectors. If it's a simple matter of testing, flowing and determing the failure issue, I can handle that, and i'm only a couple miles from you.

Jim

[Dave_N]

The injectors are GM. Marine applications use a bigger (more lb/hr) injector than an automotive application typically does, but other than that I don't think they are "marine" injectors. Please post the trouble codes that you are getting.

Dave

[Legend]

Sorry about the untimely response.......Please find the codes and Historical engine info below:



DIACOM ® Diagnostic Status Report

03/25/2005 14:47:41


1. VEHICLE CONFIGURATION

Engine Make: N/A
Engine Serial No: N/A
Model Year: N/A
System Type:

2. PERFORMANCE DATA

Parameter Description Value Unit

Available Power 90 %
Baro Pressure 15.03 PSI
Battery Voltage 12.27 VDC
Coolant Temperature 32.00 °F
Engine Speed 0 RPM
Fuel Flow Rate 0.00 GPH
Fuel Level 1023 #
IAC Duty Cycle 0.00 %
Lake/Sea Temp 430.00 °F
Manifold Absolute Pressure 15.03 PSI
Manifold Air Temperature 32.00 °F
Oil Pressure 50.75 PSI
Paddle Wheel 0 Hz
Pitot ADC 0 #
Port Exhst Cool Temp 32.00 °F
Sea Pump Pressure 0.00 PSI
Sensor Power 5.01 VDC
Spark Advance 8.00 DEG
Starb Exhst Cool Temp 32.00 °F
Throttle Position 100.00 %
Throttle Sensor Voltage 5.05 VDC
Trim Position 1023 #
Trim Volts 5.10 VDC

3. TROUBLE CODE STATUS

Current ECM Codes

Sensor Fault, click Read Fault button for details
Limiter Fault, click Read Fault button for details

Trouble Code List:
MAT CKT HI Code is active
SEA PUMP CKT LO Code is active
PITOT CKT LO Code is active
OIL PSI CKT HI Code is active
FUEL LVL CKT HI Code is active
TPS1 RANGE HI Code is active
STEER CKT LO Code is active
ECT TMP CKT HI Code is active
TRIM CKT HI Code is active

Freeze Frame Data:

0 STEER CKT LO
--------------------------------------------------------------------
FF Baro Pressure 15.03 PSI
FF Battery Volts 12.11 VDC
FF Sea Pump Pressure 0.00 PSI
FF Boat Speed 35.00
FF Manifold Air Temp 32.00 °F
FF Coolant Temp 32.00 °F
FF Demand 100.00 %
FF Engine Speed 0 RPM
FF Engine State Stall
FF FPC Total 0.0 Counts
FF Frequency Count 2
FF Fuel Level 0.00 %
FF Gear Position In Gear
FF Lake Temp 430.00 °F
FF Engine Load 0.00 %
FF Main Pwr Relay Requests 32772.0
FF Manifold Air Pressure 15.03 PSI
FF Oil Level 0.00 %
FF Port Tab Pos 0.00 %
FF Available Power 90 %
FF Run Time 16.00 hrs
FF Starboard Tab Pos 0.00 %
FF TPS Percent 100.00 %
FF Trim Position 0.00 %

1 SEA PUMP CKT LO
--------------------------------------------------------------------
FF Baro Pressure 15.03 PSI
FF Battery Volts 12.09 VDC
FF Sea Pump Pressure 0.00 PSI
FF Boat Speed 194.00
FF Manifold Air Temp 32.00 °F
FF Coolant Temp 32.00 °F
FF Demand 100.00 %
FF Engine Speed 0 RPM
FF Engine State Stall
FF FPC Total 0.0 Counts
FF Frequency Count 2
FF Fuel Level 0.00 %
FF Gear Position In Gear
FF Lake Temp 430.00 °F
FF Engine Load 0.00 %
FF Main Pwr Relay Requests 32772.0
FF Manifold Air Pressure 15.03 PSI
FF Oil Level 0.00 %
FF Port Tab Pos 0.00 %
FF Available Power 90 %
FF Run Time 16.00 hrs
FF Starboard Tab Pos 0.00 %
FF TPS Percent 100.00 %
FF Trim Position 0.00 %

2 FUEL LVL CKT HI
--------------------------------------------------------------------
FF Baro Pressure 15.03 PSI
FF Battery Volts 12.09 VDC
FF Sea Pump Pressure 0.00 PSI
FF Boat Speed 199.00
FF Manifold Air Temp 32.00 °F
FF Coolant Temp 32.00 °F
FF Demand 100.00 %
FF Engine Speed 0 RPM
FF Engine State Stall
FF FPC Total 0.0 Counts
FF Frequency Count 2
FF Fuel Level 0.00 %
FF Gear Position In Gear
FF Lake Temp 430.00 °F
FF Engine Load 0.00 %
FF Main Pwr Relay Requests 32772.0
FF Manifold Air Pressure 15.03 PSI
FF Oil Level 0.00 %
FF Port Tab Pos 0.00 %
FF Available Power 90 %
FF Run Time 16.00 hrs
FF Starboard Tab Pos 0.00 %
FF TPS Percent 100.00 %
FF Trim Position 0.00 %

[Legend]

3 PITOT CKT LO
--------------------------------------------------------------------
FF Baro Pressure 15.03 PSI
FF Battery Volts 12.09 VDC
FF Sea Pump Pressure 0.00 PSI
FF Boat Speed 246.00
FF Manifold Air Temp 32.00 °F
FF Coolant Temp 32.00 °F
FF Demand 100.00 %
FF Engine Speed 0 RPM
FF Engine State Stall
FF FPC Total 0.0 Counts
FF Frequency Count 2
FF Fuel Level 0.00 %
FF Gear Position In Gear
FF Lake Temp 430.00 °F
FF Engine Load 0.00 %
FF Main Pwr Relay Requests 32772.0
FF Manifold Air Pressure 15.03 PSI
FF Oil Level 0.00 %
FF Port Tab Pos 0.00 %
FF Available Power 90 %
FF Run Time 16.00 hrs
FF Starboard Tab Pos 0.00 %
FF TPS Percent 100.00 %
FF Trim Position 0.00 %

4 TPS1 RANGE HI
--------------------------------------------------------------------
FF Baro Pressure 15.03 PSI
FF Battery Volts 11.79 VDC
FF Sea Pump Pressure 0.00 PSI
FF Boat Speed 0.00
FF Manifold Air Temp 32.00 °F
FF Coolant Temp 32.00 °F
FF Demand 100.00 %
FF Engine Speed 0 RPM
FF Engine State Stall
FF FPC Total 0.0 Counts
FF Frequency Count 128
FF Fuel Level 0.00 %
FF Gear Position In Gear
FF Lake Temp 430.00 °F
FF Engine Load 0.00 %
FF Main Pwr Relay Requests 32772.0
FF Manifold Air Pressure 15.03 PSI
FF Oil Level 0.00 %
FF Port Tab Pos 0.00 %
FF Available Power 0 %
FF Run Time 16.00 hrs
FF Starboard Tab Pos 0.00 %
FF TPS Percent 100.00 %
FF Trim Position 0.00 %

5 OIL PSI CKT HI
--------------------------------------------------------------------
FF Baro Pressure 15.03 PSI
FF Battery Volts 12.11 VDC
FF Sea Pump Pressure 0.00 PSI
FF Boat Speed 92.00
FF Manifold Air Temp 32.00 °F
FF Coolant Temp 32.00 °F
FF Demand 100.00 %
FF Engine Speed 0 RPM
FF Engine State Stall
FF FPC Total 0.0 Counts
FF Frequency Count 114
FF Fuel Level 0.00 %
FF Gear Position In Gear
FF Lake Temp 430.00 °F
FF Engine Load 0.00 %
FF Main Pwr Relay Requests 32772.0
FF Manifold Air Pressure 15.03 PSI
FF Oil Level 0.00 %
FF Port Tab Pos 0.00 %
FF Available Power 90 %
FF Run Time 16.00 hrs
FF Starboard Tab Pos 0.00 %
FF TPS Percent 100.00 %
FF Trim Position 0.00 %

6 ECT TMP CKT HI
--------------------------------------------------------------------
FF Baro Pressure 15.03 PSI
FF Battery Volts 12.09 VDC
FF Sea Pump Pressure 0.00 PSI
FF Boat Speed 34.00
FF Manifold Air Temp 32.00 °F
FF Coolant Temp 32.00 °F
FF Demand 100.00 %
FF Engine Speed 0 RPM
FF Engine State Stall
FF FPC Total 0.0 Counts
FF Frequency Count 107
FF Fuel Level 0.00 %
FF Gear Position In Gear
FF Lake Temp 430.00 °F
FF Engine Load 0.00 %
FF Main Pwr Relay Requests 32772.0
FF Manifold Air Pressure 15.03 PSI
FF Oil Level 0.00 %
FF Port Tab Pos 0.00 %
FF Available Power 90 %
FF Run Time 16.00 hrs
FF Starboard Tab Pos 0.00 %
FF TPS Percent 100.00 %
FF Trim Position 0.00 %

7 MAT CKT HI
--------------------------------------------------------------------
FF Baro Pressure 15.03 PSI
FF Battery Volts 12.09 VDC
FF Sea Pump Pressure 0.00 PSI
FF Boat Speed 34.00

FF Manifold Air Temp 32.00 °F
FF Coolant Temp 32.00 °F
FF Demand 100.00 %
FF Engine Speed 0 RPM
FF Engine State Stall
FF FPC Total 0.0 Counts
FF Frequency Count 107
FF Fuel Level 0.00 %
FF Gear Position In Gear
FF Lake Temp 430.00 °F
FF Engine Load 0.00 %
FF Main Pwr Relay Requests 32772.0
FF Manifold Air Pressure 15.03 PSI
FF Oil Level 0.00 %
FF Port Tab Pos 0.00 %
FF Available Power 90 %
FF Run Time 16.00 hrs
FF Starboard Tab Pos 0.00 %
FF TPS Percent 100.00 %
FF Trim Position 0.00 %

8 TRIM CKT HI
--------------------------------------------------------------------
FF Baro Pressure 15.03 PSI
FF Battery Volts 12.09 VDC
FF Sea Pump Pressure 0.00 PSI
FF Boat Speed 246.00
FF Manifold Air Temp 32.00 °F
FF Coolant Temp 32.00 °F
FF Demand 100.00 %
FF Engine Speed 0 RPM
FF Engine State Stall
FF FPC Total 0.0 Counts
FF Frequency Count 2
FF Fuel Level 0.00 %
FF Gear Position In Gear
FF Lake Temp 430.00 °F
FF Engine Load 0.00 %
FF Main Pwr Relay Requests 32772.0
FF Manifold Air Pressure 15.03 PSI
FF Oil Level 0.00 %
FF Port Tab Pos 0.00 %
FF Available Power 90 %
FF Run Time 16.00 hrs
FF Starboard Tab Pos 0.00 %
FF TPS Percent 100.00 %
FF Trim Position 0.00 %

[Legend]

9 TPS1 CKT HI
--------------------------------------------------------------------
FF Baro Pressure 15.03 PSI
FF Battery Volts 12.27 VDC
FF Sea Pump Pressure 0.00 PSI
FF Boat Speed 245.00
FF Manifold Air Temp 32.00 °F
FF Coolant Temp 32.00 °F
FF Demand 0.00 %
FF Engine Speed 0 RPM
FF Engine State Stall
FF FPC Total 0.0 Counts
FF Frequency Count 5
FF Fuel Level 0.00 %
FF Gear Position In Gear
FF Lake Temp 430.00 °F
FF Engine Load 0.00 %
FF Main Pwr Relay Requests 32768.0
FF Manifold Air Pressure 15.03 PSI
FF Oil Level 0.00 %
FF Port Tab Pos 0.00 %
FF Available Power 90 %
FF Run Time 15.98 hrs
FF Starboard Tab Pos 0.00 %
FF TPS Percent 0.00 %
FF Trim Position 0.00 %

Fault Log Data
Fault Descriptions Seconds

Battery Range High: 0
Battery Range Low: 78
Block Pressure is Low: 4
Compressor Temp Overheat: 0
ETC Motor Open: 0
ETC Motor Short: 0
Fuel Pressure Sensor Input High: 0
Fuel Pressure Sensor Input Low: 0
Guardian Strategy: 6
Knock Sensor 1: 0
Knock Sensor 2: 0
Low Oil Pressure Strategy: 0
Low Oil Remote Strategy: 0
Low Oil Reserve Strategy: 0
MAP Sensor 1 Input High: 0
MAP Sensor 1 Input Low: 0
MAP Sensor 1 Idle Rational: 0
Oil Pump Output: 0
Overspeed: 1
Port Clnt Overheat: 0
Starboard Clnt Overheat: 0
Warning Horn Output: 31
Water In Fuel: 0

Engine Run Time History:

Total engine run time: 16.00 Hours
0 - 749 RPM: 2.78 Hours
750 - 1499 RPM: 2.32 Hours
1500 - 2999 RPM: 4.45 Hours
3000 - 3499 RPM: 4.83 Hours
3500 - 3999 RPM: 1.27 Hours
4000 - 4499 RPM: 0.32 Hours
4500 - 4999 RPM: 0.03 Hours
5000 - 5499 RPM: 0.00 Hours
Over 5499 RPM: 0.00 Hours

[BUIZILLA]

you really have some wacko readings going on there.... why don't you investigate the ground circuitry FIRST....
the temp default is always 32* F ???
speed 199 ??
lake temp 430* ??
100% throttle/load, but zero rpm ??

JH

[Dave_N]

Wow! You have a lot of wierd stuff going on there. Is this with the new or old ECM?

Dave

[Legend]

Wow! You have a lot of wierd stuff going on there. Is this with the new or old ECM?

Dave


This is with the new ECM....strangely enough that it reeads 199 mph and I haven't been able to start the engine with the new ECM much less drive the boat.

[Legend]

I spoke with the guys over at Rinda Technologies and they advise that I need to concern myself with the following code errors:TROUBLE CODE STATUS

Current ECM Codes

Sensor Fault, click Read Fault button for details
Limiter Fault, click Read Fault button for details

Trouble Code List:
MAT CKT HI Code is active
SEA PUMP CKT LO Code is active
PITOT CKT LO Code is active
OIL PSI CKT HI Code is active
FUEL LVL CKT HI Code is active
TPS1 RANGE HI Code is active
STEER CKT LO Code is active
ECT TMP CKT HI Code is active
TRIM CKT HI Code is active

Apparently an error that reads "Code is active" is a problem. Does anyone have a manual that tells what these various codes are and how the problem can be resolved?

Thanks in advance.


Legend

[BUIZILLA]

Each of those codes you see above, are all at the limits of their capability to report... this clearly indicates an open GROUND problem.

JH

[Dave_N]

I have the ECM555 manual, but it really goes into troubleshooting individual codes, but not much on a multiple code situation like this. I think Buizilla is on the right track. Could be a ground issue. Most of the codes seem to be due to a high 5 volt sensor circuit. Do you still have the old ECM?

Dave

[Dave_N]

I think I would check all grounds first. Then I would leave the Laptop hooked up and watch the codes as I disconnected each sensor that is Listed as HI. If if were a shorted or open sensor is causing the problem, the second you disconnected it all the sensor Active (HI) codes would become "Inactive" (when a code is "active" it is currently a problem, when the code is "Inactive" it was out of range at some point during the current key up, but is now within range). I have seen trim sensors fail and take the 5 volt sensor circuit with it. Maybe start there. Below is a wiring diagram if that helps.

Dave

[penbroke]

What BUIZILLA said. :yes:

Frank

[BUIZILLA]

when you *key-on* (not start) the ign. switch, what does the alternator/volt gauge do?

How is the ECM box itself grounded?

[BUIZILLA]

when you follow the grounds in the above chart SP100 position is gonna be the root of the cause. That ground lug is central to every false echo your seeing from your sender data stream report.

JH

[Dave_N]

From the ECM555 diagnostics manual:

[Legend]

when you *key-on* (not start) the ign. switch, what does the alternator/volt gauge do?

How is the ECM box itself grounded?

Thanks for all the info everyone.

The volt guage reads approximately 12.2 - 12.6 volts

The ECM is grounded to the engine by way of the brackets that it is attached to and I suspect that there is also a ground in one of the harnesses attached to the ECM.

[Legend]

I have the ECM555 manual, but it really goes into troubleshooting individual codes, but not much on a multiple code situation like this. I think Buizilla is on the right track. Could be a ground issue. Most of the codes seem to be due to a high 5 volt sensor circuit. Do you still have the old ECM?

Dave


The old ECM was returned to the Dealer to be forwarded onto Mercrusier for testing.

Legend

[Dave_N]

Any news? Seems like an open ground circuit for the 5 volt sensor circuit is what everyone is thinking. Maybe a dumb question, but since this circuit is grounded through pin B1 at the EMC, and the problem arose when the ECM was replaced, did you disconnect the harness connectors at the ECM and inspect the pins (especially B1) for damage? Maybe while the connectors are off, check for continuity through the harness to the ground pin at some of the sensor connectors?

Dave

[Legend]

Any news? Seems like an open ground circuit for the 5 volt sensor circuit is what everyone is thinking. Maybe a dumb question, but since this circuit is grounded through pin B1 at the EMC, and the problem arose when the ECM was replaced, did you disconnect the harness connectors at the ECM and inspect the pins (especially B1) for damage? Maybe while the connectors are off, check for continuity through the harness to the ground pin at some of the sensor connectors?

Dave

Dave N,

I was troubleshooting without any success all day. I am very frustrated at this point and desperate to try anything. My ecletrical expertise is limited. I will try the B1 connector through the ECM tomorrow for continuity and damage. I am hoping to get the service manuals to better assist. All suggestions receommended in this thread have be acknowledged and tried just not to sure if I am testing the varios sensors/circuits properly. Also not 100% sure where all of them are located. Please forgive me is this seems "unreal" for me not to know where each circuit/sensor is located.
Any other suggestions and possible remdies are welcomed and I will surely keep everyone informed as this unfolds.

Regards,


Legend

[Legend]

After all of the research and work done I still admit that I am not technilcally inclined when it comes to advanced electrical/electronics issues. My mechanic will be out of the country for another two weeks plus and I am beyond eager to get the issues resolved, get the boat running and do a sea trial. BTW would anyone like to come to the Bahamas for a day to (Saturday to Sunday) to resolve all me engine issues. I have the tools, the Diacom software and the service manuals.

Regards,


Dion

[Legend]

FINALLY able to pinpoint the problem.
After spending lots of money on the new software, purchasing a new ECM until Mercruiser test the old one (if the ECM is bad then they will reimburse me otherwise I would be out of pocket for the new one), purchased manuals for my model engine along with the troubleshooting guide, shipping and labor for the mechanic.
We were finally able to find the problem. It is very strange that the problems I had with the old ECM were completely diferrent from the problems encountered with the new ECM. I was not able to get the engine running with the new ECM but it ran on 6 cylinders with the old ECM before I sent it back to the dealer. The new ECM generated several fault codes as mentioned in my pevious posts.
My mechanic arrived from vacation on Sunday and I provided him with the suggestions from the forum, along with the trouble codes and troubleshooting suggestions from the manuals. He finally discovered that the various sensors were not receiveing the needed ground from the ECM (black/pink wire) the two grounds going "INTO" the ECM were very good however when we checked the sensors for ground "FROM" the ECM there was none. We checked the black/pink wire for continuity from the ECM harness to the sensors and they were good. We jumped the black/pink ground wire from the ECM to a known good ground and BINGO the engine rolled over on the first crank. While the engine was still running we removed the ground and the engine shut-off immediately. Once we reconnected the jumper wire the engine restarted. I am now faced with having to deal with Mercruiser, TWO bad ECM's and spending lots of money to find out what the problem was.

Legend

[BUIZILLA]

when you follow the grounds in the above chart SP100 position is gonna be the root of the cause. That ground lug is central to every false echo your seeing from your sender data stream report. JHSP100 is black/pink..... ding.....ding......ding......ding.....ding......di ng..... :garfield:

[MOP]

Dion that is why this old fart hates these new electronic systems, I have two close friends that are Mecr dealers they are un happy dealing with both the systems and the factory. Carbs all the way!!!! The Merc dealers have an old saying around here, being a Merc dealer is like having a painful annuity that does make $$$.

I hope you have good luck dealing with them!

Phil

[Legend]

SP100 is black/pink..... ding.....ding......ding......ding.....ding......di ng..... :garfield:

Buizilla and Dave N........your guys were spot on and tremendously helpful. Do you know what would cause the SP100 to not send a ground from the ECM to the various senders. Also does the ground for the SP100 originate from the ECM or is it from another source? Lastly where exactly is the SP 100 splice located within the actual engine wire harness?

Regards,


Dion

[Dave_N]

Stoked that you found the problem. Bummer about the cost. Hope you can work it out with Merc.

Good work Buizilla:beer:

Dave

[BUIZILLA]

Don't be surprised if both ECM's are found to not be defective. Bad grounds do funny things.

Since you got the engine to burp, and run fine already, why not just leave it ground spliced like you just did??

Look where the master ground wire(s) to the block intersect, and make SURE the threads are clean, with no debris or paint in that specific hole, and the fastener is clean as well.

JH

[Legend]

Finally, Finally, Finally!!!!!

After many emails and telephone calls and lawsuit threats the dealer finally made good and sent another ECM. And afetr instally it and keeping my fingers crossed the engine started on the first try. You can only emagine what a relief that was. I pleaced the coputer on it and got a few fault codes that I suspect are related to the smartcraft connect which I am NOT using. The only problem that I encountered was that I am gett 2 beeps every minute. I will clear the fault codes and see of the 2 beeps continue. The fault codes that I got after the 3rd ECM were:

Blk PSI Ckt Lo Code is Active
Pitot Ckt Lo Code is Active
Fuel Level Ckt Lo Code is Active
Steer Ckt Lo Code is Active
Sea Tmp Ckt Lo Code is Active
Trim Ckt Hi Code is Active

If anyone has any idea why I am getting the 2 beeps per minute, I would be greatful for your input and advise.

Legend

[Legend]

Finally, Finally, Finally!!!!!

After many emails and telephone calls and lawsuit threats the dealer finally made good and sent another ECM. And afetr instally it and keeping my fingers crossed the engine started on the first try. You can only emagine what a relief that was. I pleaced the coputer on it and got a few fault codes that I suspect are related to the smartcraft connect which I am NOT using. The only problem that I encountered was that I am gett 2 beeps every minute. I will clear the fault codes and see of the 2 beeps continue. The fault codes that I got after the 3rd ECM were:

Blk PSI Ckt Lo Code is Active
Pitot Ckt Lo Code is Active
Fuel Level Ckt Lo Code is Active
Steer Ckt Lo Code is Active
Sea Tmp Ckt Lo Code is Active
Trim Ckt Hi Code is Active

If anyone has any idea why I am getting the 2 beeps per minute, I would be greatful for your input and advise.

Legend


Excuse the typos

[Morgan's Cloud]

Excuse the typos

You're just excited to get going right ? ? ! :biggrin:

[donzi182003]

Legend,

The 2 beeps per minute on my boat were that the neutral position switch was bad and it triggered a fault. Just my experience.

Ed

[Dave_N]

The active fault code at the top of your list is the reason for the beeps. However, I am not familiar with that code, and it's not it the service manual. I'm confused now. :lookaroun

Dave

[Legend]

The active fault code at the top of your list is the reason for the beeps. However, I am not familiar with that code, and it's not it the service manual. I'm confused now. :lookaroun

Dave

Do you think I should contact Merc and find out what this fault code is and how to fix it? or would they refer me to the dealer who I bought the engine from?

[Legend]

I contacted my good friends over at Doller Offshore Marine in FL. and they said that I have to check the pressure switch either on the block or on the cooler.

Do these usually go bad seing that the engine is brand new?

Are they difficult to change?

Any input would help!!!

Legend

[BUIZILLA]

I'm a thinkin' it's the last code shown that's the nuisance....

JH

[Legend]

I spoke with a Merc "Techy" for the Latin America and the Caribbean Region concerning the Fault Codes. He said the first fault code was the problem (Blk PSI Ckt Lo). All the other fault codes are somewhat normal because I am using analog guages and not the Smartcraft system. Neither of those codes would cause 2 beeps per minute or reduction in power. As for the BLK PSI Ckt Lo code......the sensor is located on the top of the engine, in the rear by the flywheel on the cooler. This fault means that the engine is not getting enough water pressure and because I am using a garden hose to test, the engine is not being supplied with enough water. They claim that these sensors rarely go bad and they are confident that once I do a Sea Trail that the 2 beeps per minute would discontinue. If anyone wants to back Merc and place a wager on the possibility of the beeps going away let me know.

[Dave_N]

I'll bet it does go away. :yes:

Dve