Unbelievable!!

[Doug G]

I had to read this a few times, still hard to believe. Ron Gettlefinger ought to be strung up!! To tell the Marine Corp that you can't park in a UAW lot if you have a Bush sticker on your car.....some people just don't get.

Gettlefinger got grilled on the radio this morning, and reversed the decision. However, I believe the Marines are standing by theirs.

http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0503/13/C01-115531.htm

[Rootsy]

I had to read this a few times, still hard to believe. Ron Gettlefinger ought to be strung up!! To tell the Marine Corp that you can't park in a UAW lot if you have a Bush sticker on your car.....some people just don't get.

http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0503/13/C01-115531.htm


get rid of the UAW and pay people who push a button and drive a hilo what they are worth and then most of us could actually afford a new vehicle... Not all unions are out of control... and the big 3 might actually be able to compete if they use their heads (sad but true). i've been around the block enough times to know that the UAW is one helluva PITA to deal with...

sounds like this choad has a bit of an inferiority complex...

JR - yeah i am not afraid to piss people off...

[MrsDigger]

Oh, my...this, in my opinion, is further proof that unions have outlived their usefulness. Note to self: Tell all the marines I know not to buy ANY motor vehicle built at a plant run by the UAW...

[Trueser]

I find it hard to believe that most GM motors are made in Mexico. It's just a shame what it's done to the Detroit area. I use to work at a Electo Motive plant over 20 years ago and they paid me a fortune to sweep the floors. Most of that plant is shutdown and they farm out as much of the work as possible,

I Agree the cost of cars may be different if the uaw wasnt around.

Dont take me wrong on this.

[Darrell]

Oh, my...this, in my opinion, is further proof that unions have outlived their usefulness. Note to self: Tell all the marines I know not to buy ANY motor vehicle built at a plant run by the UAW...



So do we tell American service people to buy cars from overseas carmakers. Please folks keep buying the good ole American cars, my boating budget depends on it.

By the way, as far as I know the oil industry is not unionized, but it seems gas is way too high.

Darrell

[MrsDigger]

So do we tell American service people to buy cars from overseas carmakers. Please folks keep buying the good ole American cars, my boating budget depends on it. By the way, as far as I know the oil industry is not unionized, but it seems gas is way too high. Darrell

You f*ck with one marine, you f*ck with all of us.

Semper fi,
Mrs. Digger
Marine wife

[Darrell]

You f*ck with one marine, you f*ck with all of us.

Semper fi,
Mrs. Digger
Marine wife


WTF , I was saying UAW or not, I would hope the American Military would support American carmakers. Jez, just because I question your logic of boycotting American carmakers (just because one jerk makes a stupid statement) doesn't I'm f*cking with the Marines or their spouses. LIGHTEN UP

Darrell
American Car Retailer

[MrsDigger]

My tongue-in-cheek comment was in reference to the UAW, and Mr. Gettlepecker in particular; he does, after all, purport to represent the UAW. Gee, I'm not considering boycotting ALL American carmakers-just those affiliated with the UAW. It's kind of like voting...only with the almighty dollar. So the UAW doesn't get my vote--LIGHTEN UP.

[Donzi Dreaming]

On the east coat the unions are just as bad! I have to pay a "carpenter" out of the Philadelphia Carpenters Union more than 3 times what I pay most of my guys to do less work with 10 times the attitude. Then they go claim unemployment against the company for lack of work when some places that I work in I don't have any choice but to use them. It is such a racket!!! :cussball:

:splat:
:splat:
:splat:

[Ranman]

Gee, I'm not considering boycotting ALL American carmakers-just those affiliated with the UAW. It's kind of like voting...only with the almighty dollar. So the UAW doesn't get my vote--LIGHTEN UP.

Clearly you are misinformed. All American carmakers are unionized. The only non-union carmakers are foreign manufacturers. while I'm not a fan of the UAW as I think they are shooting themselves in the foot, I am dedicated to my homeland and try to buy American where I can. It would be nearly impossible to purchase all American products, but I do try to make an extra effort, especially on BIG purchases.

On a slightly different note, because the foreign automekers are non-unionized, they can be more competitive and invest more into R&D etc, as opposed to overpaying union workers. It is commonplace here in Detroit to have a union worker who drives a forklift make a six figure salary plus overtime. Sure he lives well today, but look at the market share. Delphi is on the verge of bankreptcy. GM announced an 800 million dollar loss for the first quarter. Plants are empty. Where does the union guy think all of this work is going. What will we do when we're all out of jobs?

I think the foreign automakers build a better product for the money hands down. It''s easy to see they have a huge advantage. I will (and all Americans should too) buy American cars (products) even if they are inferior. MY welfare depends on it! Too many of us are dumb to our surroundings and just want the cheapest price while being totally blind to the long term effects. We need to get our sh*t together or we'll all have to move to India or China or Mexico to get a job. I don't know about you , but I like it here.

[Ranman]

Just read the article and am torn...

On one hand, I fully support Bush, the Marines and the entire operation. These guys are doing a job that requires much more courage than I could imagine. I applaud all of them and am in debt to their services which allow me to live in such a safe, comfortable, worry free environment. I do have to question, however, what would posess a member of the United States services to purchase and own a foreign car. This seems counter-intuitive to me. Am I missing something?

On the other hand, as much as I dislike the UAW and feel that they are on a path that, in the long term will slowly erode the American standard of living based on lost market share to foreign competition in favor of short term immediate gain and excessive wage for lower value tasks, I have to say I don't blame tham for banning foreign manufactured autos from their lot, regardless of who owns the vehicle.

I hope the ban is for ALL foreign cars regardless of who drives tham.

To sum it up, I guess I support the car ban, but oppose the anit-Bush ban if that at all makes sense.

[Rootsy]

hell with the price of oil i think i'll go service my corn planter, inject a bit of anhydrous and put my order in for some seed :cool:

[Ranman]

hell with the price of oil i think i'll go service my corn planter, inject a bit of anhydrous and put my order in for some seed :cool:


You looking to move us to alcohol Root?

I'm pretty convinced that the hydrogen fuel cell technology is not going to make it.

A recent conversation with a long time auto engineer netted discussion that the SUV is going to die in favor of crossovers like the Escape, Magnum, etc. We will move to something that has utility capabilities but is fuel efficient.

I'm ready for atomic cars. Remember "Mr. Fusion". :D

[TuxedoPk]

I am trying to buy 'American' but can't decipher exactly what that means.

1.) Company A whose stockholders are comprised of American citizens who have their retirement funds invested but the company does off shore manufacturing

2.) Company B- A predominantly foreign owned company that has manufacturing plants in the US

How do factors such as where the steel comes from, and who supplies the energy during the process factor into the equation? How can I be certain that my local dealer isn't sending a portion of his profits back to family members in his homeland.
_____________________
Trying to figure out a global economy is as confusing as father's day in Harlem.

[MrsDigger]

Clearly you are misinformed. All American carmakers are unionized. The only non-union carmakers are foreign manufacturers.
I know, that's why it was funny. Tongue-in-cheek, ya know...


while I'm not a fan of the UAW as I think they are shooting themselves in the foot, I am dedicated to my homeland and try to buy American where I can. It would be nearly impossible to purchase all American products, but I do try to make an extra effort, especially on BIG purchases.

On a slightly different note, because the foreign automekers are non-unionized, they can be more competitive and invest more into R&D etc, as opposed to overpaying union workers. It is commonplace here in Detroit to have a union worker who drives a forklift make a six figure salary plus overtime. Sure he lives well today, but look at the market share. Delphi is on the verge of bankreptcy. GM announced an 800 million dollar loss for the first quarter. Plants are empty. Where does the union guy think all of this work is going. What will we do when we're all out of jobs?

I agree, the unions are certainly pricing themselves, and the companies for which they work, out of the market. This is but one more reason I think unions are passe. Perhaps I'd think differently were there not such legislation as the NLRA, the OSH Act, the FLSA. However, there are those agencies that exist to monitor the health, safety, and working conditions of employees. Unions cannot negotiate to improve those things, as much as union reps and union organizers will assert otherwise. What the unions do in today's environment is extort money and benefits from their employers, using work stoppage as their threat.


I think the foreign automakers build a better product for the money hands down. It''s easy to see they have a huge advantage. I will (and all Americans should too) buy American cars (products) even if they are inferior. MY welfare depends on it! Too many of us are dumb to our surroundings and just want the cheapest price while being totally blind to the long term effects. We need to get our sh*t together or we'll all have to move to India or China or Mexico to get a job. I don't know about you , but I like it here.
My welfare depends upon my ability to get the most "bang" for my buck. I want high quality, and I'm not afraid to pay more for it. I will not, however, pay more for an inferior product, merely because the label says "Made in USA."

Buying an inferior product sends the wrong message. Instead, we should be demanding that our workforce perform up to the standards set by the best in the business. We should expect that American products possess quality equal to or higher than foreign-made products.

The way to ensure the success of American business isn't to buy crappy products made at home, it is to foster an environment that allows companies to grow, to automate, to improve processes; not to pay the union worker more and more in wages and benefits to do a job that could in all likelihood be automated, or at the very least, performed faster and more efficiently by a non-union worker somewhere who is willing to accept pay that is commensurate with the skill and labor required to perform the work.

[MrsDigger]

You looking to move us to alcohol Root?

I'm pretty convinced that the hydrogen fuel cell technology is not going to make it.

A recent conversation with a long time auto engineer netted discussion that the SUV is going to die in favor of crossovers like the Escape, Magnum, etc. We will move to something that has utility capabilities but is fuel efficient.

I'm ready for atomic cars. Remember "Mr. Fusion". :D

Matthew's brother Mark (Howe) is probably one of the smartest people on the planet, and his car--with a standard diesel engine--runs on cooking oil. Used cooking oil. He has a filtering system set up, and I guess it works like a champ. While I understand the mechanics of the internal combustion engine, this is beyond my capacity to comprehend. He says ... it is simple. The way he explains it, it is simple. The question is, if it is that simple, why isn't everybody doing it?

Mark, if you're around, please opine!

[Ranman]

Tux,

The lines have clearly been blurred. There is really no such thing as a truly "American" car. That is, all American auto manufacturers have some degree of "global" content. In an effort to be competitive with the foreign manufacturers, the American automakers have outsourced labor and assembly to low cost regions like China and Mexico. This is done out of necessity as it's difficult to be competitive when you have to pay $35/hr for unioned assembly workers in the US. We should also note that the foreign manufacturers with plants in the US primarily are NOT unionized and thus enjoy lower manufacturing and labor costs (though not as low as mexico, China, etc).

IMO the practice of building plants in the US by the foreign automakers is just as much of a marketing strategy as anything else. This lets the makers tout "Americanized" versions of their product leading the blind consumer into believing it is now OK to buy their product and thus stealing market share from the true American compaines. The majority of the foreign manufacturers supply chain are other foreigh manufacturers and any profit derived from product sales is taken out of the US and converted into their homeland's currency. A US plant is better than nothing, but hardly worth patronizing. If we all bought American cars, Ford or GM or whoever would be able to build a new plant in Tennessee or Alabama too.

So what does all this mean? Who do you put your equity with? The answer is somewhat subjective, but I try to support the companies that have the greatest positive effect on the American economy. That is those companies whose stockholders, retirees, and employees are comprised of American citizens including the entire supply chain. We should support those companies who when you buy a product, the direct and indirect costs, revenue, margin and profit contains the highest percentage of "US supply content". This means the dollars mainly stay in America and is redistruibuted throughout the American supply chain and thus through our own ecomony

There is an abundance of senseless people who can make all sorts of compelling arguments about what is foreign and why they should be entitled to buy whatever products they so desire and while their arguments are compelling, the truth is we need to support ourselves and our own products to the greatest extent possible. This action, over time will allow us to develop and produce the best possible products as well as the highest standard of living in the world.

In my eyes, the only automotive choices are Ford and General Motors. While I don't care for all their offerings, I will continue to support the companies that have the greatest positive effect on our economy as well as my immediate livelihood.

[olredalert]

-------I have a friend up here whose wife works for Visteon in one of thier interior plants, and is, of course, union. She finishes her allotted work for the day (that is the UAW agreed upon days work, 8hours) in roughly 3 to 3 1/2 hours and goes some where in the plant and reads for another couple of hours until she can leave without being noticed. She then heads over to her second job before she is even supposed to be home from her first......Whats wrong with this picture??????.............Bill S

[Ranman]

My welfare depends upon my ability to get the most "bang" for my buck.

This is true for the short term. Continuing to make that decision over time will have a much greater effect on your long term welfare. Think about it. You can make the cheap decision now, or we can make a sacrifice for a better future. I agree there are other issues/problems, but if Americans continually supported each other, you'd have more bucks to bang. You're giving up on your own people by not supporting their businesses.

I'm not excusing the American automakers from producing a world class product, but I'm willing to make the sacrifice to get them the revenue to invest in the technology to build a better car in the future. The unions are one part of the problem, but it's a vicious circle. I will make my sacrifice as I believe that my decision is me "most correct" for our future. I may be the only one and it may not make much difference, but I can sleep at night knowing I'm doing my part the best I can.

[MrsDigger]

This is true for the short term. Continuing to make that decision over time will have a much greater effect on your long term welfare. Think about it. You can make the cheap decision now, or we can make a sacrifice for a better future. I agree there are other issues/problems, but if Americans continually supported each other, you'd have more bucks to bang. You're giving up on your own people by not supporting their businesses.

I'm not excusing the American automakers from producing a world class product, but I'm willing to make the sacrifice to get them the revenue to invest in the technology to build a better car in the future. The unions are one part of the problem, but it's a vicious circle. I will make my sacrifice as I believe that my decision is me "most correct" for our future. I may be the only one and it may not make much difference, but I can sleep at night knowing I'm doing my part the best I can.

IMO, the only way to salvage the US auto industry is to take power away from the unions and give it back to the company, where it belongs.

I am a firm believer in capitalism, and sacrificing for the greater good by buying inferior products just doesn't cut it for me. I don't consider myself to be "giving up on my own people;" rather, I expect my fellow cowboy capitalists to get off their respective heinies and build a better mousetrap. I won't support a bunch of hacks, sitting on their a$$es and loafing because they think I owe them a living, and relying on Americans to buy American for the sheer joy of social welfare. Like anyone else, they have to earn my business. Conversely, there are companies I won't support because of the political bent of their countries of incorporation. I quit using Allegra D, although it worked wonderfully, because it is a French company.

I support Halliburton, by the way. Good American company, there.

[TuxedoPk]

Randy-I'm not taking any shots at you but rather just using your well articulated arguments as a means for philisophical banter.


"true American compaines"- which ones are these?

"This means the dollars mainly stay in America and is redistruibuted throughout the American supply chain and thus through our own ecomony"

-doesn't this cut down on the $$$ for foreigners have available to puchase from 'true american companies' and hurt US export sales which in turn leads to a decrease in the need for a strong US labor force?

It seems to me that the decision to purchase or not purchase foreign products is most often the result of an animosity or prejudice (earned or otherwise) against a particular country. I've never heard of anyone complaining about not buying US watches, but when it comes to products coming out of France or Israel or Germany and services coming from dot headed nations and places with high concentrations of yellow people, then things become problematic. How much media attention is given to those damn Canadians who take jobs from American brewers?

It's nice to be able to make our purchasing decisions on geography and not on issues such as how environmentally concious a company is, whether or not it supports public television.

We should support those companies who when you buy a product, the direct and indirect costs, revenue, margin and profit contains the highest percentage of "US supply content".
-Is this information contained in all those dark black lines on the UPC code?

This action, over time will allow us to develop and produce the best possible products as well as the highest standard of living in the world.
-I missed the part on how buying US tools rather than Best of Breed tools reguardless of origin will allow us to develop the best possible products.

[Forrest]

. . . I quit using Allegra D, although it worked wonderfully, because it is a French company . . .


Gee, I have to wonder why the Marine Corp. uses Sodexho (http://www.sodexho.com/detect.cfm), which is very much a French company, to run all of their mess halls (http://www.sodexhousa.com/press-releases/pr100102a.asp).

[Ranman]

Tux,

Thanks for the preface, it help to keep misintrepretations down.

What I'm spewing is a very generalized viewpoint from an only moderate education on the subject. Many can out debate me on these points and make very compelling arguments from all sorts of angles. As you're aware there's no black and white. The world is much more "global" than ever. I'm not saying that we must only buy American made products, that's silly. I enjoy French Vodka, Italian wine, Swiss watches, Canadian beer and so on.

Of course I'm going to be particularly biased on the Auto industry, my livelihood depends on it. Almost everyting I have obtained since birth, has been made possible due in large part to the US Auto industry. This particular industry IS the heartbeat of America. Moerso than just about any other manufacturing sector. It's incredibly influential with respect to the US economy, the GDP, etc, etc. I'm not claiming to be an expert or pretending to know more than the next person, I just know that Ford, GM, Chrysler, Delphi, Tower Automotive, Hayes, Goodyear and countless others have provided me with housing, food, a degree, a Donzi and virtually everything I own since birth. There well being is critical to my well being. This is true for most every person in Detroit (a dying Motor City). The impact is not felt as much in other places, but the American Auto industry (or what's left of it), is one of the keys to sustaining wealth in this part of the country. People who think that buying cars from foreign makers is OK and that it has no cumulative effect on themselves or other Americans are doing everyone a disservice and I am at ends with that particular part of their behavior. That's simply my opinion. My level of respect for a person drops ever so slightly when I find out they bought foreign. Come live and work in Detroit, you'll understand.

[TuxedoPk]

Randy, your response doesn't give me much to dissent with or challenge but I'll try :)

"As you're aware there's no black and white"
Q. Was the tabacco we exported 'American' when it was being picked by slaves?
Q. I wonder how much of a price premium there was on 2n'd generation 'Made in America' Slaves v. purchasing the imports off the boat.

"Come live and work in Detroit, you'll understand."
- Detroit's a great American city I alway's enjoy visiting- gotta love Greek Town. Actually the last time I was there was when we all went out to dinner after MADCOW and the 'scenic' route you sent me on back to the airport :) I really enjoyed that trip and hope to get back out there to do some boating with you guys again.


-----------------
I was surprised to learn that employee health benefits cost US automakers more than all of the steel used to build their cars.

[MrsDigger]

Gee, I have to wonder why the Marine Corp. uses Sodexho (http://www.sodexho.com/detect.cfm), which is very much a French company, to run all of their mess halls (http://www.sodexhousa.com/press-releases/pr100102a.asp).

Probably a big oversight...although the hairy little surrender-monkeys ARE good with wines and cheeses...

[Darrell]

-----------------
I was surprised to learn that employee health benefits cost US automakers more than all of the steel used to build their cars.



That's the no. 1 reason GM's corporate loan rating continues to fall, the future liablity of it's retirment plan and health plans has the major banks backing down thier rating, even as GM was posting profits. I think the last down grade I heard had GM @ BBB+ rating.


Darrell

[Doug L.]

Friends,

I have to pipe in here on this topic; in my 28 years of working here in Detroit I have had my own issues with the UAW. The union doesn’t always make the best decisions and public statements I am glad to see the recanted latter in the day. I will not buy and Asian made automobile, I think now days most of the quality issues are a myth besides enough of my money go to foreign companies and governments. Why some marines would buy other then and Amrican auto I don’t know. I do know way they would vote for Bush and not that jackass Kerry.

General motors and Ford did not get to be as big as they are because building automobiles is unprofitable and they are just nice guys. The wages and benefits paid
by the big 3 set the standard for the country and were brought to you by the UAW, and these corporations continued to make huge profits.

Corporations are in business to make a profit for the shareholders. No matter what job you do and I do mean any job, as soon as they can get it done cheaper somewhere, even if it is in a country has poor human rights policies low wages and no health care for the people, your job will be gone.

On another note, this week I worked on tooling for BMW, Toyota, GM and Ford
on a American made machine tool with a Japanese control using French and American cad software running on a Dell computer, the guy in the work station next to used a German machine tool with Italian controls working on tooling for other customers.

Miss digger, I admire you passion.
Doug

[TuxedoPk]

Considering that debt is the largest industry and that products such as automobiles are just a byproduct of that industry, wouldn't it make more sense to evaluate the controlling interest of a company based on where it secures its credit rather than the geography in which the company is incorportated or where it manufactures its products?

Q. If most US debt where in the hands of a particular nation shouldn't we have an alligience or obligation towards them? Not meant to be an un-American thought but just relating how we expect third world nations to relate to the US after we lend them $$$.
________________
Visa/Mastercard/Amex- What's your favorite brand of consumer debt?

[harbormaster]

I am a major patriot that believes in buying american.

What do I drive? a 1998 BMW. My BMW was designed and built here in the Spartenburg South Carolina. Since I bought it in 1999 my out of pocket expenses were 1000 bucks for oil changes,cam position sensor that went south, belts, thermostat, and cooling system flush.
I pay 80 bucks for a oil change. For that I get a full car detail, and mobil1 synthetic and filter. The also deliver my car to me from time to time when I have it done.


Our other car is a 2000 Ford Expedition. You don't even want to know all the **** that has gone wrong with this vehicle.
1).Since the day we had it, it has had a vibration in the front right side. Been to the dealer numerous times on this one.
2).The front brake pads needed replacing at 25000 miles.
3). The automatic headlights ceased functioning
4). The turn signal switch assembly in the column went bad.
5). We opened the sunroof and it refused to close. That was a hit for the labor and circuit board deep under the read headliner.
6). And finally the icing on the cake. The freaking recall from FORD for the amazing self igniting cruise control. Were going to sell it but it so worthless now it obscene. It will probably never be worth what we owe on it until it is paid off. The Ford dealerships near me are a freaking joke. They just make it difficult every step of the way till you finally wear down and say screw it.

As for GM, as soon as they figure out how to design an automobile interior that lasts I might consider them. I like their drive trains better than Ford.

Buy american cars? I have to think twice. Even if it's my own country I refuse to buy Junk. The only reason that American cars have gotten as good as they are (and I use that term loosely) is because of the foreign car market breathing down their neck.

With all that said, I would still buy a new mustang. :checkered

[Cuda]

I'm on my fourth new Ford truck in a row. My last one, I did nothing but change oil and fuel filters. I put 122k working miles on it. Oh yeah, I had to change an alternator at 111k. The only reason I sold it was because I bought to be a boat to pull with the F 150. My 2002 F 250 PSD has 68k on it now with only oil changes, and Deb's 2003 Sport Trac has over 60k on it with only oil changes. My last three trucks I never changed a spark plug, belt, or other fluids. You can't convince me that non American vehicles can beat that perfect record. All told that's 310,000 trouble free miles.

[gcarter]

Well my Explorer has 212000 miles with only oil and filter changes, two serpentine belts, one belt tensioner, one AC compressor, and three sets of brakes.
I'd say that's pretty good.

[boxy]

Well my Explorer has 212000 miles with only oil and filter changes, two serpentine belts, one belt tensioner, one AC compressor, and three sets of brakes.
I'd say that's pretty good.

George, you forgot to mention the pesky left hand rear signal light that keeps burning out every three weeks ........ :D

[roadtrip se]

GM and Ford got themselves into their most recent trouble by agreeing to lavish healthcare benefits for the UAW ($1,200 per car now), ignoring their car lines in favor of trucks and SUVs, out of control incentive spending to keep excess capacity utilized, and wasting excess cash on foreign luxury brands and other unrelated businesses.

It's going to be a long climb out of the murky depths of public perception due to the car junk that the big 2 and a 1/2 built over the last thirty years. Ford and GM now have to build stuff that is better than an Accord or a Camry just to be considered. Look at the Mustang and the 300, truly inspiring designs that are selling well. Who gets inspired by a transportation appliance like a Camry or Accord any way?

I left the Midwest for Texas twenty years ago, because the union was killing my home town, Toledo. Champion, Owens Corning, Libbey Owens Ford, Dana, and several others either left town or shifted work out of the area to avoid the unions. For awhile, the largest employer in town was Toledo Hospital. Now, it's Jeep with the new greenfield Liberty assembly plant paid for by the tax payers, but I still remember stories of assembly workers throwing rocks through windshields of vehicles that they had just assembled! I left town.

I'm thrilled to be back in the area, closer to friends and family, and working to help Ford be more efficient and cost effective in every way we can. Believe me the union entitlement attitude hasn't changed a bit, it's worse! I predict that the unions are going to lose in every way over the next five to ten years, the competitive climate just can't continue to subsidize their exsistence. I look forward to watching it happen!

Oh by the way, Jill drives a VW TDI Jetta. We would have bought American, but try to find one with a diesel motor. It's a great car, real nice inside, and gets 50 mpg. We'll buy another one, if Detroit can't figure it out in the mean time.

Todd

[BUIZILLA]

The new Jeep Liberty with the diesel should sell very well, response has FAR surpassed the buildout as it is, for this year. You won't find a TDI on a knowledgeable dealers lot, either the Golf TDI, Jetta and Passat are selling great I am told locally.

JH

[Lenny]

Todd, I LOVE my great big FAT UNION :D 8 1/2 weeks vacation, 10 Stats, all overtime is double, time banked or pay, health and dental benefits for entire family, free prescriptions, no weekend work, everything is 8-4 :D etc etc etc.

It is the only way I can be able to attend all these events and drive around the Country without a care in the world. ;)

...pot stirring...

[joseph m. hahnl]

unions have gotton lost as to what they were originated for as the same as congress has lost what it was formed for. to protect the rights of the people and to keep them safe. as far as buying american. bet f'n ass that american workman ship is the best in the world. did you read the label "made in china"
I don't know about you but when i buy something i'd like it to work. not just to say yah i got one of those. out sourcing products to other countries is killing our passion to create better and newer products. if you notice this quest for cheapness has ruined most of the products we buy. changing materials because there cheaper. well what good is a plastic gas cap if it melts when it comes into contact with gas.as far as cars go the reason why foreign is considered better. they are realatively new companys that have started with newer tooling state of the art plants that use automated assembly lines. to compete american manufactures need to retool the same way. a good example would be chrysler
remember when they went under they retooled and look at the cars they put out now.it's a very expensive task and burdon. and is most likely cheaper to farm out work to other countrys then to complete such a task. but the end result is a bunch of hamburger flippers who are going to buy that new caddilac or hummer. yah right. I stand behind and in front of my country right or wrong in the dissions my politicions make. there view may not reflect mine
but i will defend my right for freedom on my own land and nobody elses.

[harbormaster]

Gee, I have to wonder why the Marine Corp. uses Sodexho (http://www.sodexho.com/detect.cfm), which is very much a French company, to run all of their mess halls (http://www.sodexhousa.com/press-releases/pr100102a.asp).

This company also runs the cafeterias at the Johnson Space Center.
I guess I will not be eating there.

[MrsDigger]

Just think how much worse it would be if the UAW was running the cafeteria...