496HO guys..prop selection....

[ChromeGorilla]

I was wondering if any of you guys with the 496HO/B1X/Mirage 25+ set up are hittin the rev limiter. Whenever I feel the need for speed and the water condition permits, when I open it WFO and bring the tabs all the way up I'm bumpin the rev limiter. I obviously don't want to be running at those rpm's so what prop do you think I should try? 27 Mirage +, Turbo, or a Hyrdo QIV... I just need an idea of where I should start .

[Last Tango]

You might want to kick it up a notch and try a four bladed 26 and or a Mirage Plus 27P. If the 27 seems a bit too tall, have it labbed. If someone like MadPoodle has any of these around the shop, you could maybe try them out at Mt. Dora. Easy to do a quick prop swap and test in Dora Lake.
The Mirage Plus 27P will at least give you an apples-to-apples comparison to see if the answer is more steel, before you play with a different number of blades or any different prop-cuts from other builders. If the 27 is a wee bit too tall but otherwise a good fit for the rest of the RPM range, then maybe a lab finish at the Mercury Marine race shop will bring it down to size and up to speed.
Just my opinion. I could be wrong.

[Cuda]

CG, with the speeds you are attaining, I don't think I'd touch a thing in that boat.

[pmreed]

Scott, I've got very similar horsepower (502 / 415), a little more than that actually with the SSM manifolds, and I'm also bumping the rev limiter at 5050. It's fun to run light as a feather with that 25 Mirage plus, but I really like the handling of the Turbo. I felt a 27 Turbo would be too tall, so I just had my 25 P Turbo repitched to 26 by Matt at Throttle-Up. I want to get out in the next few days to give it a try. I'll let you know how it works.

Phil

[Cuda]

Scott, you might want to call Matt and Julie at Throttle Up. They are doing some prop testing next month I believe. They will have the guys from Hyro there too if it's like last year. My buddy Johno just bought a new Renegade fishboat that is running 68 with the stock props and they told him they are sure they can get him over 70. Great people to deal with. Johno has an appointment with them when they are water testing. I went down last year when they were doing it. The do it at Bay Pines boat launch in St Pete. I don't know if they charge for it or not. Be a great time to sample some more of they great west coast boating over there. I'm sure Johno would love to guide you around. He's bitter 'cause I'm not there to boat with him all the time now.

[John W]

Chrome,
I have the same setup, 2004 22 classic with the same engine. I was able to turn 4900 wot, 71mph GPS, with the stock mirage plus. I have not hit the rev limiter yet. Iwould like to try a different prop for the hell of it and I may try a turbo 1 26p.
Let me know what you end up with.
JW

[RickR]

I prefer the Turbo 1 for inshore boating in the 22.
Turbo has a new hub (T Loc) coming out that will hold up better to the 496s power.
I spun the rubber hub on my Turbo 1, 24". I have a new in the box 25" Turbo 1 with T Loc I cannot wait to try. :biggrin.:
http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=37914

[Cuda]

CG, I emailed Johno about the prop testing. This was his reply.

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

No charge, I guess they are hoping to sell you props & labbing. They are doing it in a couple locations here in Fl. March 18th is the date at Bay Pines....I think.

[ChromeGorilla]

Cuda thanks dude. I wonder if they will have any locations closer to me...... I'll have to call throttle up.

[Pismo]

I have the same trouble with a 502/415 hitting the limiter with a 25 MPlus at 5050rpm. I tried a labbed 27 MPlus and it is very unstable compared to the 25. Gained 1.2mph but am only reving 4700-4800, too low. Still looking for the perfect prop. Need hydraulic steering first, then SSM exhaust, then the 27 may work..............Will try a labbed 26 bravo 1.

[Bryan Tuvell 33ZX]

Hydromotive P5X, I would say 25 Pitch.

[ChromeGorilla]

5 blade!?!?!?!?! Holy shnikees!

[Dr. Dan]

:smash: Aren't they one of the new Ruling Parties in Iraq? I didn't know they made Props Too?

Wow...I love this place ....only in America!

Doc of Dimentia :rolleyes:

[ChromeGorilla]

After searching old threads I think I wanna try a 27' Turbo 1 and a 25" Hydro Quad IV-X. Any thoughts....

[Pismo]

Chrome-What king of GPS speeds are you getting on top? Must be 75-77. I know a 27" Mplus is too tall for my 502 setup. Turns only 4700rpm. Will a Turbo 27 get enough rpms? A good three blade 26" seems perfect if only someone made one, maybe the clever style 3 blade from hydromotive.

[ChromeGorilla]

GPS is 74.4 to 74.6 every time I bump the limiter.

[Pismo]

You and I have the exact same situation almost to the tenth. Hitting the limiter at 74.5mph with a MPlus 25" in a 22 Classic. My labbed 27 MPlus got me to 75.5 and well off the limiter but is a bear to handle, much tougher than the 25", it never settles in with the 27" but settles in well with the 25". My plan is hydraulic steering to get control and SSM exhaust to get 100-200 more rpm hoprefully and use the labbed 27" MPlus. I would like to try a Turbo 1 25 or 27 as well and a Hydromotive 26. I am afraid of the same problem with the turbo, hit the limiter with a 25 and not enough rpm with a 27".

[pmreed]

Thay's why I now have a Turbo 1, 26 P. :D

Phil

[ChromeGorilla]

Pismo I think the Turbo has a slightly smaller diameter than the mirage + so the 27 turbo may be slightly easier to turn.

Phil I think I only saw 25 or 27 turbo 1 offered. Did you have a 27 worked over?

[pmreed]

Hey Scott, you started this thread. Check post #5, previous page. It started out as a brand new 25 P that I put maybe 15 hours on. Sent it to Matt at Throttle-Up and now its a brand spanky new 26 P.

Phil

[ChromeGorilla]

Yeah, right after I posted last I saw your post on thr prop info.....:)

[Dr. Dan]

:spongebob Scott, I would agree with Phil....I have a 27 Turbo I am putting on the King Cobra this year...last season I ran a 25 Turbo...and I had more left. I was told, Turbo will not make a 27 any more....when mine was ordered.
Don't know if that is true....but it seems that Phils has so much so similar to yours that it would be ideal.....the 27 may be a tad tall for your unit...it may be for mine...the advantage of the Turbo is the Diameter and Handling....I have only run Turbos....and have had zero issues for 4 Seasons....

Good Luck

Doc :spongebob

[RedDog]

Doc - I believe your drive is 1.43:1 vs a Bravo (most) 1.5:1. A 27 on yours would be about like a 28 on a Bravo.

... plus you have the 50 or so extra beans under the hatch

[Pismo]

I think PM has it worked out, a 25 turbo 1 worked up to a 26" Sounds ideal. Has anyone ever labbed a turbo or are they good enough out of the box?

[RickR]

Turbo "Precision Propeller" can "Sweeten" your prop. Give them a call.

[ChromeGorilla]

I just called Precision Propellers (Turbo) and the lady I spoke with said she thinks I'll need to run a vector not a turbo1. She took my number and will be calling me back as she wanted to research a little before a definate recomendation. Any thoughts on the Vector vs Turbo1.

[Pismo]

After much searching, it seems the most common belief on this site is the Turbo 1 over the vector for the 22 classic

[ChromeGorilla]

Pismo, thats what I gathered in searching as well.

I wonder how much easier, if any, it would be to turn a Turbo 1 27 vs a 27 mirage+ since the Turbo1 has a smaller diameter.

I pretty sure that I would be in the same spot with a 25 turbo 1 as with the 25 mirage+ especially since it has a smaller diameter.

Another question, I dont know the process they use to change pitch and such, should i have a 25 repitched to 26 or a 27 repitched to a 26?

[pmreed]

CG, If you come to Mt. Dora, you can try my 26, then decide if it's right before you go spending money on props. As to whether it's better to go up or down in pitch from stock...talk to the pros.

Phil

[Barry Phillips]

Chrome Gorilla, my 496 mag spins a 23" Mirage Plus at 5000 rpm and bumps up against the rev limiter warning buzzer when I really air the boat out. The 496 mag should turn 46 to 4800 rpm at WOT. Your HO should turn 5000 to 5200 rpm. Is your warning alarm activating when you are WOT? How do you know you are bumping up against the rev limiter. 74+mph is nothing to sneeze at for your set up.

PS, did get my message, I do have a place on the Great Sacandaga in June, were are staying on the lake, loved to hook up, contact me.

Barry

[BigGrizzly]

Chrom, As of Late I have become a dealer for Preceision Propeller. I left a 27 Turbo at Scott Baxter's house so he could break in his new engine. The truth is that is the only 27 Turbo ever made. The reason is there was no call for them and several new designs have been made that are better for the design of our V hulls. On my boat I had both a 27 Marage plus and the 27 Turbo. on the same day and can tell you the turbo was faster and handled better. There is an old post of mine that states this, way back a couple of years ago. I since have gone to the Turbo Lighting which I prefer and am testing some new designs which were shown at the Miami show. In your case I would not go with the Turbo1 even tho, in my opinion it is the most under rated prop in the marine industry, but with a Lightning. There are other Precision props to chose from, but I can't make a suggestion untill I try them on that hull myself. which should be with in two months. I will bring selected props to the rallies for testing/trying and of course buying. There will be a discount for Donzi.Net members.

Lenny and the patient ones, The Stanless Steel props for the old Volvo 250-290 are here in the USA. We are setting up a way to sell them now. Hopefully some minor issues will be ironed out this week. There is one point I never mentioned was that the props cannot be used with the exhaust through the trim fin on the 250->270 drives. the fin must be changed to the little one and the long hub cone used. The 290 is not affected. The fact is that the big fin costs up to 2 MPH any way. I am trying to get the prices in the mid $300 range. This beats the heck out of the Hill $500->600. abd they work better on my boats.

[Dr. Dan]

:cool: I ordered and received from Dans Props(May 04) a 14.25 x 27 Turbo for my little Donzi...it has not been wet yet...this Season...it will be running!

More Fun and Games to Torment Toddler! ;)

Doc of Conspicuous Horsepower :spongebob

[ChromeGorilla]

MP and BigGriz, thanks for the input. Sounds like you guys have a different opinion on the Lightning. It sounds like I need to try a 26 Vector and a 26 Lightning to see which I like and the numbers I get when running. While I'm at it Phil offered to let me try his 26 Turbo1 at Dora. I'll try this and go from there.

[ChromeGorilla]

Just got off the phone with Precision Propellers and they said tha a 26 TXP would be perfect. I looked at their website and didn't see it. They said it 14 3/4 x 26" with a new hub design. They said it's gonna be nice be wont be avail for a few weeks....does anyone know of this prop?

Put my numbers in the prop slip calculator out of curiosity....

Gear ratio 1.5
Pitch 25
RPM 5150
Theoretical Speed 82.18
Actual GPS 74.5
Slip 8%

[ChromeGorilla]

Good point Scott. I just went back to the website and there it was on the first page..... "Our new 3 blade high performance ................. bass boat prop" :eek: Could this be the prop they recomended? Precision Propeller (http://www.turbo-props.com)

[Pismo]

The TXP........I saw the same thing.......a bass boat prop.........for a 22 Classic, hard to believe. Who Knows, it may be perfect or they may be trying to sell their new prop?

[BigGrizzly]

I hav tried all the props on other Donzis besides my Criterion. The biggest problem the old Lightnings had were ventlation holes thatcaused problems on our hulls They now have a choice without or with. I will only use without vents. The vents were designed for fast acceleration on twostroke bass boats. They don't work on fourstroke motors well. The I company I work for Honda, has been working on this problem for years finally caned the the vent holes. I like the way a new Lightning handles and lifts the boat up. My boat runs flat not bowhigh which is where some of my ride and speed comes from. I will say I now am turning a TXP my Criterion.
Chrom, you mentioned the smaller diameter of the Turbo. There is much mor in props than 1/8 inch in diameter. The fact is I turned a 27 marage plus easier than the 27 Turbo. On my boat as well as Tomahawk the Turbo was Faster and turned less Rpms than the marage plus. Yet these props look the same at a glance. As for the Vector it is a good prop. It does not always work well on some rocher hull 18 clasics yet on some it is ok. I try different props all the time. My 22 has no less than 19 different props in it so far. I still don't have a iron clad answer which I like best.

[roadtrip se]

I tried a 28 inch TXP prototype at AOTH two years ago. It looked like a three blade Hydro Quad IV and ran great. Nice mid-range acceleration and handling, but not as much top end as my labbed Mirage 29. I was never able to get my hands on one again.

Grizz, sure would like to try one in finished form again this year...

Pretty please..

Todd

[ChromeGorilla]

thanks for the info 'Trip

[Greg K]

The TXP I tried plus having a King Cobra drive...it was not comfortable at all in comparison to my Turbo 1. I felt it gave the 22 too much stern lift and drove the bow down and required much more trim out to get the ride I wanted. Slower than my Turbo 1, but better out of the hole only.

[RickSE]

I wish you guys would get this figured out. :p

I really want to buy a new prop this season but may wait to see what comes of this discussion. My RPM's & speed are fine with a labbed 25 Mirage+ @ 3600'. I just want better handling. The Hydro QIV has such a big diameter that I don't know what pitch to try. I'm afraid a 25P-QIV would be too big, maybe a 23P-24P? If I go Turbo-1 then I'd probably need a 27P, but from what I read here it's not available. :banghead: I have no desire to try the TXP unless the handling is significantly better then the Mirage.

I think I'm leaning more towards trying a Hydro QIV.

[Ranman]

I wish you guys would get this figured out. :p

I really want to buy a new prop this season but may wait to see what comes of this discussion. My RPM's & speed are fine with a labbed 25 Mirage+ @ 3600'. I just want better handling. The Hydro QIV has such a big diameter that I don't know what pitch to try. I'm afraid a 25P-QIV would be too big, maybe a 23P-24P? If I go Turbo-1 then I'd probably need a 27P, but from what I read here it's not available. :banghead: I have no desire to try the TXP unless the handling is significantly better then the Mirage.

I think I'm leaning more towards trying a Hydro QIV.

Rick,

I would try 1" down from your Mirage+ for the QIV

On the 18, I can turn either a labbed 25P Mirage+ @ 5150RPM or a 24P QIV @ 4950RPM. Speeds are 70.5 and 67.5 respectivly. The Mirage is flighty and loose when trimmed, but clearly a fast prop. The QIV is much more stable, especially in rough water, but a tad slower. For where I like boat, I hardly ever run the Mirage anymore.

BTW, If it helps you and you don't mind picking up the FedEx ground both ways, I'll send you my 24P Hydro to test. I'll need it back sometime in April though. Let me know.

[Richard Rees]

I also have a Mirage Plus 25, on my22 classic,454 mag, I do not care for the way it handles, at certain speeds and or water conditions. I just found a Spinelli custom Four blade 14.5 dia. 27 pitch . I have not tested yet . Hope to soon.

[BigGrizzly]

Hold on RichS We have new stuff comming here. I have used all the props mentioned. The TXP does handle well It is not a progressive pitch like the Turbo or the lightning. The other thing is there are new Precision props comming that are big compition for the quad 4. You see the man who designed the Turbo 1 is still there. He owns The company. After Lake Cumberland he desided to get back into the prop design business and have someone else sit behind the desk. They have a test facility in Florida the wer using all winter. and came up with 5 new designs that I can't wait to try. I am a dealer for them now, but this is no sales pitch. IF something works better for you then use it. Just everyone remember when you lab finish a prop you are re designing it. I ermember Ted at Eufala with a lab finished prop that looked more like my lightning than my Marage plus. My idea is you buy a prop that works not buy one that you have to make work at an extra cost.

[Greg K]

I wish you guys would get this figured out. :p


I think I'm leaning more towards trying a Hydro QIV.
Rick

I'd also consider for your set up, a Hydro Q-IVX in a 24 or 25 pitch.. :yes:

[BigGrizzly]

Richard If you have a stoch 454 mag you won't be able to pull a 27. Tomahawk could only go to a 25 three blade with his 454 mag.
I will also say the TXP Greg triedhas been changed. Greg had one of the first ones ever made . And Road Trip tried the first one ever made. If you guys at a early Eufala remember I had the proto type Quad on my boat for a short time I saw the same as Greg slower but nice. Handled well. At that time I had the 27 Turbo and the 28 lightning. All three have their good points and all were better on my boat than the 27 Marage plus. Now the TXP is the standard prop on my boat now.