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harbormaster
01-17-2005, 08:05 AM
I gots to get me one of these.....

They are cool and cheap.

Check em out.

Owen you might like this.

Formula Jr
01-18-2005, 12:42 AM
Scot before committing to an apple machine. Check out the Linux Boxes, Great Quality PC, from Fry's - if you have those in your area. For $180 you get essentually the same GUI over Unix/Linix as Apple's Jaguar and can expand the thing out to 2 gig RAM.
It uses regular inexpensive hardware and comes with free development tools. Apple doesn't give you Perl.

It took me 5 minutes to set mine up for the Internet.
I don't think you can beat this deal for the money.

Part of the 319 bucks I saved let me send D.net a donation. 'nuf said?

Marlin275
01-18-2005, 04:28 PM
The Mac mini: Comparing Apples and Oranges
For years, people have criticized Macs for being more expensive than Windows PCs. Although at one time that was the case, those of us in the know realized a couple years ago that when you look at comparably equipped Macs and brand-name Windows PCs—that is, once you add the hardware features and software to a Windows PC that come stock on a Mac—the differences in price are much smaller, if they exist at all. This aspect of “price comparisons” has been lost on many tech pundits and analysts (as is the fact that Macs generally come with an excellent software bundle unmatched on budget PCs).

http://www.macworld.com/weblogs/editors/2005/01/miniapplesandoranges/index.php

Formula Jr
01-18-2005, 08:57 PM
uhmmmm........\

There's like another OS. And uhmm, like its Cool. And it like, does all the same stuff as X and Win's - Hello!!!!

http://www.epud.net/%7Eowen/peg2.gif (http://www.epud.net/%7Eowen/peg.gif)

Marlin275
01-18-2005, 09:40 PM
There's more to it than the OS

"Software? The Dell gives you a word processor, trial or starter versions of two apps, and Dell Jukebox; the Mac mini gives you a bundle of great software—including the ’05 version of the award-winning iLife suite—that’s worth half as much as the Dell’s hardware alone."

Formula Jr
01-18-2005, 10:27 PM
No there isn't. The hardware isn't important anymore. It hasn't been for three years. I love to talk to your pundits, and have on occassion, :), about pipeline archs or the CPU and bus ringing to and back from memory and why
98% of all the machines sold today are a waste of money.

Been there, done that. You are using it, I helped make that happen......enjoy. ;)

There's other stuff now.

Marlin275
01-19-2005, 09:31 AM
I'm talking whole package, software & hardware,
seamless elegant integration,
you're stuck on hardware. :rolleyes:


Apple scores with new software :wink:

Why should Microsoft worry? At the low end of the price scale, they are seeing a challenge from low-cost PC makers offering the Linux operating system and related applications, all free or very low cost. Linux has its own issues, and the applications may not be as sprightly as Microsoft's, but what's there is "good enough" to put some pressure on Microsoft among the extremely budget-conscious. Just check out Wal-Mart or some other retailers to see the Linux-based offerings already available.
****At the other end of the scale, Apple's announcements represent a challenge on some key Microsoft fronts. Not only will IWork engage Word and PowerPoint on price, but Mac OS X is an elegant, solid, feature-rich operating system, one that Apple will enhance further this year.
****Buy a $499 Mac Mini from Apple, add $75 in a needed memory upgrade (to 512 megabytes), and the $79 IWork package and you are ready to unplug your PC and recycle the monitor, keyboard and mouse for use with the new Mac product.
****And did I mention that the Mac OS comes with an e-mail client and Web browser? Or that Apple is loading the iLife/iTunes/iMovie/iPhoto/iDVD and GarageBand on all the new Mac Minis?
It's a formidable package.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/technology/20050117-093102-7242r.htm

Granted, this was two years ago, but
how many of these things have been solved,
let alone with seamless elegant integration?

Top 10 Things Wrong With Linux, Today :confused:
1. No 'best' browser.
2. Prompting for a filesystem scan.
3. Printing needs to be easier to configure.
4. Make it easy for the user to find out how to do things.
5. Cleaner redraws.
6. Die stray processes, die!
7. Easy way of sharing files.
8. Sound support.
9. No common editor which supports "soft wrapping."
10. No easy way to configure X - especially change resolution on the fly.
http://people.trustcommerce.com/~adam/top10/wrong.html

:wink: We Linux folks have a lot to learn from the little things in MacOSX, how apps are packaged and libraries are packaged in frameworks, the deprecation of root, a good set of defaults, and consistency in the GUI with one desktop environment.

And we dont need a distributor which packages 10 email clients all unconfigured. And shells, gui, mozilla all getting mimetypes from different files. There are only 14 desktop apps really crucial in a distrib. The rest is filler: (1) filemanager (2) browser (3) email/calendar (4) instant messaging (5) editor (6) wordprocessor (7) spreadsheet (8) presentation (9) media player (10) CD/DVD ripper(itunes) (11) photo-manager/image manipulator (12) movie manipulator (13) personal web server/application server type thingy. (14) personal accounting software

http://3point0.nareau.com/Articles/fog0000000007.html

The overall opinions (simplified) are OS X just works
and if you want to play around with your computer, use Linux. :beer:

Formula Jr
01-20-2005, 06:30 AM
Well Yes its going to take 20 minutes to load up what ever MP has linked to. Oh What Fun! But I'm in the country and can't even get 56k. I can only do 28K. (and all you folks that loadup 500K pics here are rude by the way.) So all the I..soft from Apple is a bit of a waste since it assumes broadband and wants to poll you all the time.
A friend recently bought a full fledged System X Apple Desktop but the only thing she uses it for is internet with a dial up and some offline apps. She spend 1K too much for it. I tried to talk her out of it. But she was an Apple fan also and thought the box looked cool. She bought a Sports Car to drive to the grocery store when what she really needed was an econo car. I hate X by the way. Its a slug. Four years from now, all those minies are going to be at Goodwill for 50 bucks. Just like the Apple Cube and pizza boxes before it. This is apple once again saying we know what you need. I loved the classic Apple OS. But once they went to Unix anyway, there was/is no advantage. Just cool and clean hardware. But try and find inexpensive development tools with System X. Good luck! Linux has all that with the OS bundled, plus speadsheets, wps, graphic programs, vid editors, etc and they are mostly free. Not trial versions, not crippleware but full versions that are free with source code if you want that. The Firefox browser is a top pick. I got the better version with the mailer integrated in one seamless app. I can cut and paste anything I want from one app to the other and save things in cross platform formats or PDF. Linux is now definetly better than MS. And to me, a better deal than Apple. And with USB the whole intigration/driver problem is solved. Its just another serial device. Apple doesn't make printers anymore. I would not be caught dead with an ipod. :)

Marlin275
01-20-2005, 07:32 AM
Originally Posted by Formula Jr,
She bought a Sports Car to drive to the grocery store
when what she really needed was an econo car.
Could a Donzi or Formula pass your test? :confused:



PERSONAL TECHNOLOGY
With New Mac Mini,
Apple Makes Switching
Attractive, Affordable
January*20,*2005;*Page*B1

By WALTER S. MOSSBERG

If my e-mail from readers is any indication, more Windows users are thinking of switching to Apple Computer's Macintosh models than at any time in a decade. A significant minority of Windows users are so fed up with battling viruses and spyware, or so impressed with Apple's iPod music players, that they are seriously tempted to jump to the Mac.

But some are put off by Apple's prices. The widely praised iMac G5 starts at $1,299. And the lowest-priced Mac, the eMac model, is $799. When you compare them with truly comparable Windows machines, their prices are competitive. But they look very high compared with the cheapest Windows machines, which are under $500.

So, this weekend, Apple will start selling its lowest-priced Mac ever, a tiny but full-featured desktop computer called the Mac mini, priced at just $499. But there is a catch. The mini doesn't include a monitor, keyboard or mouse. Apple says it was designed to work with the monitors, keyboards and mice from Windows PCs that it assumes switchers already own.

I've been testing the Mac mini under just that scenario for several days, and it does indeed work, quite well. I connected a mini to a Dell flat-panel screen and a Hewlett-Packard keyboard and mouse, all about three years old. The little Mac fired up and worked perfectly at every task I threw at it.

The mini comes with Apple's older G4 processor, which in some ways beats the Celeron processors used in low-end Windows PCs. It has 256 megabytes of memory; a 40-gigabyte hard disk; a video card with 32 megabytes of video memory; an Ethernet networking port; and a DVD drive that can also burn CDs. It also comes with Apple's superb suite of multimedia programs, called iLife.

In addition, the mini comes with Apple's latest operating system, called Panther, which has so far never been attacked by a successful virus and has been plagued with little or no known spyware.

All of this is packed into one of the tiniest cases I've ever seen on a desktop computer. The Mac mini is just 6.5 inches square and 2 inches high. . . .
. . .
Overall, the Mac mini is a good choice for Windows users on a budget who are tempted to switch. It's not a technological breakthrough, but it may just be one of Apple's smartest business moves.

Write to Walter S. Mossberg at mossberg@wsj.com

RedDog
01-20-2005, 10:44 AM
Who needs a mini when ...

Apple Offers $29 Nano-Mac, Hardware Not Included
by Scott Ott

(2005-01-12) -- In another uncharacteristic effort to woo the masses, Apple CEO Steve Jobs today announced that starting in February his company would ship a "starter version" of the iconic Macintosh computer which will sell for only $29 -- hardware not included.

The announcement follows yesterday's launch of a $499 Mac mini -- a small metal box with no monitor, keyboard, mouse, or other peripherals.

The new $29 Apple Nano-Mac promises to "reduce desktop clutter, while instilling the confidence and feelings of self-worth shared by Mac users worldwide," Mr. Jobs said.

And while critics charged that the bargain-priced Nano-Mac is "little more than a silver Apple logo sticker on an empty matchbox with no ports, plugs, peripherals or programs," Mr. Jobs was quick to point out that all of those "high-end extras can be purchased at Apple.com by users who like the Mac culture and zeitgeist and want to upgrade to a more hardware-centric experience."

Formula Jr
01-22-2005, 05:50 PM
So that's Apple's idea of a cybersex interface?

Call me old fashioned, but i still like old school, wet time.

:)

No local dial up side for Sat. in the hollers. :(

Actually, Apple fell though on their "smart move," which was to port System X to other platforms. That project got sidelined by the Ipod; 40% of Apple's bottom line now.

There are only two OS's left. One is Unix/Linux based. The other is a cobbled Mish Smash of gleaned interfaces overtop of chickenwire and gum.

I try not to cut and paste or link what other people say unless as a reference.
The true nature of the web was/is original content from people not payed to sell. The net is being transformed by the same special interests that sell any thing else. That purity will be lost if no one cares to think anymore on their own. Its just then a flame war over if you agree with some other pundit. Like kids arguing over the school lunch.

I have no vested interest in Linux, since I sold off my holdings of Linux based companies. They failed as badly as any in the crash. But I do still believe that this is the future. Open Code is challenged by the best who have nothing better to do, and then its fixed - yet it hasn't found a way to make money. MS and Apple's are not open. Both still think intellectual property laws work. They don't. Apple is going after some kid just because he scooped the Mini on his web site. When in 3 months the entire machine will be cloned in China. We don't do anything about China, but we will nail this kid cause we can. This is like the Napster history. Napster exploited a new file system. P to P. We blame the technology and then by proxi, blame the people that set it in play. Linux is like that, but don't blame us if we're just getting there first and making the paid pundits unhappy.

Linux is the new cool.

Marlin275
01-22-2005, 10:33 PM
I have no vested interest in Linux,. . . But I do still believe that this is the future.

In the here and now its MacOSX, because it's easy to use, looks great and is stable, thus making my time more productive when doing real work, rather then editing a little file to enable a module which should be enabled by default located deep down at my /usr/local/share/etc/almost_there/getting_hot/don't_give_it_up/this.conf or compiling KDE for hours and hours.

MacOSX has a great future too, Linux is the next best thing.
OSX is everything Linux is... but more: complete, refined, elegant, and most of all, the world’s most advanced operating system.

Sort of like a Sport boat over an Econo-boat.