OK, I chatted with BOB @ Bilt-Rite. Now, your opinions please

[Lenny]

I figured out the seat base issue, and the pedestal/track slider ordeal. :bonk: :bonk: :bonk: Anyways, instead of the "pedestal bases" I am going to install something from Springfield Marine Company.

I am thinking about the 1100300 "Universal trac-LockII" or the 1100319 "Universal Trac-LockII with 12 way swivel." Anyone tried these in their X boat? Is there room to swivel the seats.

Randy, I will also call you and see what you have up your sleeve.

http://www.springfieldgrp.com/uploads/Universal-Trac-lock-Slide.jpg

http://www.springfieldgrp.com/uploads/Universal-12-Way-Swivel.jpg

The hole pattern for the seat base is 5" x 12" and the floor base hole pattern is anywhere from 4 1/4" sq. up to 6 1/4" as they have enlongated machined holes.

Cabelas is the place that sells retail to guys like me...
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jhtml?id=0001757013926a&type=product&cmCat=search&returnString=hasJS=true&_D%3AhasJS=+&%2Fcabelas%2Fcommerce%2FCabelasCatalogNumberFinder .giftCertificateURL=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Ftemplates%2F giftcertificate%2Fgiftcertificate.jhtml%3Fid%3D000 5586990011a%26podId%3D0005586%26catalogCode%3DIB%2 6navAction%3Djump%26indexId%3D&_D%3A%2Fcabelas%2Fcommerce%2FCabelasCatalogNumberF inder.giftCertificateURL=+&QueryText=trac-lock&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcommon%2Fsearch%2Fsearch-box.jhtml.8&N=4887&Ntk=Products&Ntx=mode+matchall&Nty=1&Ntt=trac-lock&noImage=0&returnPage=search-results1.jhtml

[MOP]

Hi Len is the swivel part of that unit S/S, if it Cad plated they don't last to long.

Phil

[Ranman]

Lenny,

I have purchased more of those Springfield seat bases than I care to remember. I disintegrated 2 last season alone. Those (the top link) are the bases that come in the new classics and that is what you're supposed to use. The thing with the swivel will jack the seats up too high and they'll look goofy. The standard sliders are about US$55 a pop. They should work just fine for you since your shorter and lighter. I have to put the slider all the way back and it causes too much strain on the whole unit. They start to bend and flex immediatly after installation. After a few hours of bangint through waves and they'ry done. I'll post pics if I have time. I would think though, for the shorter lighter guy, they should be OK.

I have designed a much simpler, yet way stronger solution for mounting these seats and am preparing to make the bases soon. Granted, they dont slide, but they will stay put. Call me if you're interested.

[Mr X]

Randy, I am interested.....
please post your info so that we all can all benefit from your
engineering skills.
I have been looking for nearly a year for a good product.....to no avail.

[Lenny]

MOP, the swivel ones come in stainless if you like. Also zinc if you like.

Randy, I thought your boat had pedestals. The X's mount to a glass block on the floor so there is no 2 3/8" or whatever diameter stand for the seatto wobble on.

Does your Classic NOT have the pedestal stands?

[Ranman]

Lenny,

There are no pedestals. There are two raised fiberglass squares molded into the cockpit floor (one for driver, one for pass). They are about 10" X 10" X 2" tall. There are four mounting holes that are used to mount that springfield slider to. The other part of the slider bolts to the underside of the seat.

Ted, I will post the pics when I get some free time in the next day or so.

[Mr X]

Thanks Randy.....
here is a pic of my X-18 floor with the dimensions
Thanks to GEOO

[Ranman]

t kind of hole pattern is used to bolt those brackets to the raised boxes? It looks like 3 bolts in a triangle pattern. Is that right?

[Mr X]

Randy,
yes but I would be drilling more and running in more stainless bolts.
That pic is actually GEOO's floor.

[Dr. Dan]

:smash: Lenny...... I replaced my orignial "Pot Metal Style" with the Slider Units in your top link....I have not had any durability issues with the Brackets themselves....I do have to Thru Bolt the Seat Bases to the Top Plate though...otherwise it just torques loose over time...I am on my second Season....and still going strong...now as for the rest of the boat...well............More Horsepower equals harder running ...which equals even harder hitting of waves and wakes...which yeilds unpleasant and unsightly Stress Cracks.

I need some of that Marine Grade Gold Bond Powder...to get rid of the cracks in the boats Skin? :wavey:

Doc :rolleyes:

[roadtrip se]

240 pounds of man meat sitting on the far end of a springfield seat rack. Add 70+ miles an hour on a choppy St. Clair River and suddenly you find yourself in the back seat staring at the sky. Ask Olered, he was in the boat. Thank God for kill switches.

After asking around, the HM piped up and recomended the "Garelick" stuff as much more solid in his old 18. I ordered a set of seat bases in the pedestal style and haven't had any problems since, and I'm still sitting on the end of that track,
and we hardly found any smooth water this past summer.

Lenny, since the HM had the flat arrangement in his 18, I'm sure Garelick might have a setup that would work on the X.

It has become part of my pre-flight to check these things, but they haven't needed a tightening down since I installed them. Motor mounts and other stuff, another story for another day.

Todd

[RickR]

Lenny
I am not familiar with the mounting on the X but

I did not have much luck with Springfield. The product they were making in 1995 did not hold up on the 22 so I replaced with Garelick in 2001.

Pic is of Garelicks after 3 years of use (salt and fresh, inshore and offshore :shocking: )
Also I included a pic of the fasteners I used (w/1/4" machine screws). They are called "Togglers" available at West Marine or if you need some electrical products also check out http://www.sjproducts.com/

[Lenny]

The Garelick's won't work in the X18. I need the flat one WITHOUT any pedestal arrangement.

Thanx tho :yes:

[Ranman]

OK. Here's the story and the plan. I'm going to stretch this over a couple of posts.


First, THis is what the Springfields look like installed. Notice the left side of the assembly is already bending from use.

[Ranman]

It doesn't take long for mighty Lake St. Clair to turn them into this. How much force does it take to rip aluminum like that anyway? There's nothing quite like having your seat come out from under your ass at 45mph in a 3' washing machine let me tell you. As Todd said, thank God for lanyards.

These get expensive at $55 a pop.

[Mr X]

Yes, were with ya.......

[Ranman]

I got to thinking and I decided I could do better. Once I adjust the seat, that is where it stays. The Springfields get bent up so quickly that they don't slide after a run or two anyway. I decided that as long as I could mount the seat very solidly and in the same location I like to sit, I would gladly sacrifice adjustability for shear strength. BReaking those frames can put a damper on you weekend, especially when you take on out on a Saturday leaving you stranded for Sunday's ride.

That's exactly what happened to me. I busted one up on a Saturday and I had big plans for a SUnday cruise. SInce I have to order these things, I was SOL. That's when I decided to test my idea and fab up something to put me in business for Sunday.

I went to my dad's shop to see what I could do. SInce there was no aluminum or SS "U" channel to be found, I had to improvise. I ended up cutting a piece of 2" X 4" box steel longwise to get two pieces of 2" X " "U" channel steel.

I realize that std bare steel tubing is not the best for a marine environment, but this was a test and I was in a pinch.

I smoothed up the edges and put the hole patterns in so the "U" channel would bolt to the floor bases and also to the underside of the Bilt-Rite seats.

This setup is incredibly strong. In fact what you see is what I used for the remainder of the season. The seat is now mounted exactly where I like it and is as solid as can be. See pics below.

[Ranman]

Realizing that the bare steel is only a temporary thing, I improved the design somewhat and came up with the drawing below. The new frames will be made out of the .250 aluminum "U" channel I purchased. This should hold up fine in the marine environment. The slash cuts are so rear seat passengers won't catch their toes on the frames. While the drawings show only one set of holes for mounting to the fiberglass bases in the cockpit, several sets of holes could easily be drilled allowing the frames to be mounted so as to position the seat further forward. Even though the seats are not immediatly adjustable, the ability to make some adjustments is possible. The hole locations I picked pretty much match where the seat would be with the Springfield bases adjusted so as to give maximum legroom. In fact, I think I went back slightly further than the Springfields would allow.

Anyway, I will be making a few sets of what you see in the CAD drawing as a permanent solution to my seat frame issues. If this is something that is of interest to you, I could pretty easily make an extra set or two at minimal cost.

This setup may be overkill for most, but at 6'4" and 260lbs, I am tired of dicking with these frames and plan to put in place a permanent fix. Let me know what you think and yes that is a snowboard with wheels and a gas engine on the back. IT's kickass to ride and will do about 20 mph.

[knots2u]

Put (2) holes in the top side of each rail for mounting on the buckets and multiple holes (at say 1" spacing) on the bottom to mount to the box, that way you can find a sweet spot for forward or aft position, then lock them down. Maybe mill slots?

[Ranman]

Put (2) holes in the top side of each rail for mounting on the buckets and multiple holes (at say 1" spacing) on the bottom to mount to the box, that way you can find a sweet spot for forward or aft position, then lock them down. Maybe mill slots?

That concept is exactly what I was talking about with reference to being "somewhat" but not immediatly adjustable. You wouldn't be able to make the change on the lake, but you would have options when setting up the seat. Slots may be OK, but I worry they would faciliteate movement. A series of holes could give 3" - 5" of adjustability in 1" or maybe even 1/2" increments.

[boxy]

Nice work Randy, sweet solution.....

[roadtrip se]

The Garelick's won't work in the X18. I need the flat one WITHOUT any pedestal arrangement.

Thanx tho :yes:

Lenny, Garelick offers a flat set-up, too. That was what HM used in his 18, which was of a similar vintage to Randy's.

Or you go the fabrication route, but a fixed seat arrangement wouldn't work for us when I'm 6'4" and Jill is 5'2".

Todd

[Ranman]

I would be interested in seeing the Garelick pieces if anyone figures out which ones are a direct replacement.

[tamburello]

I replaced my stock Springfield sliders with the Garelick sliders last season. They have the same bolt pattern and are an easy bolt on replacement. The springfields are junk compared to the Garelicks, crappy cast pieces vs. some tough extruded aluminum sliders. I'm 6'6" and 190 and they didn't show any signs of damage after beating them up in the bumpy water that I ran in last summer.

The Garelicks are tougher than the Springfields but Randy's brackets look like the shiznit as far as strength is concerned. With those steel brackets you'll be breaking the bucket seat long before you get those brackets close to the failure point. I also like the fact that Randy's brackets bolt in place as I have had my seat creep back on me while I'm bouncing over the chop.

One note on the Garelicks, they are about 1" taller than the Springfields. This probably won't be a concern for most but with my Momo seat my legs are right under the wheel. I got into the boat on Friday AM at AOTH last year to find that the bottom of the wheel was hitting the tops of my legs. After a moment of panic I took out the thigh bolster pad on my seat and had just enough clearance under the wheel.

- Jeff

[tamburello]

The Garelick sliders are part no. 75081. www.garelick.com
I ordered mine from iboats.com

- Jeff

[gcarter]

I am replacing my sliders with Garelicks. Back in March (I think), I posted a method of mounting the Garelicks w/o removing the deck.

[Ranman]

I just wanted to update this thread for future searches. I tabled my soild mount idea and ordered and 2 Garelick 75081 pieces to see how they would work. These are the correct units for an 18 Classic with the raised box seat bases. The construction and aluminum stock is much beefier/heavier than the stock Springfield units. These look like they are going to hold up well. Only if the Garelicks fail will I revert to the solid method I described above.

To the Donzi factory, If you are listening, you should be installing these Garelick units on the 18's if you are not already. These are vastly superior to the thinner Springfield pieces that have been used in the past.

[Tidbart]

Randy,
Will these Garelicks change the height of the seat? Which way?

Bob

[banfield]

Hi Folks,
I'm looking at these Garelick sliders too ,as my '83 22' classic also has the fiberglass pedestals, limiting out choices on seat mounting options. What I'd really like is a seat mount that allows for rotation, fore-aft slide, and easy removal for maintenance under the dash. All this, without adding significant height to the seat base. But I gather that this doesn't exist without some major modifications. I'll clearly have to give up something on my wish list.

My question is: Do the sliders from Garelick allow the seat itself to be easily removed and simply reversed in the track? I'd love to be able to face the back seat once we stop cruising and 'socialize'.

Don Banfield
Cayuga Lake, NY
'83 22' Classic

[Ranman]

Bob,


The Garelicks are taller than the springfields. I did not measure them, but I would say by an inch or less. I think the Garelicks offer slightly more fore and (more importantly to me) aft. I'm 6'4" so I need a lot of room to get my legs comfortably under the dash. If the frames are too tall, my shins hit the underside of the dash. The Garelicks offer just as much, if not more comfort than the Springfields with no "shin issues". So with all that said, to me the extra inch in height is of no significance to me.


Don,

I don't see how you could easily remove the seat and turn it around. Tamburello has some system for quickly removing and installing the seats using Garelick sliders. I'm not sure how he does this as my new sliders have positive fore and aft stops limiting travel. Maybe he removed them. If you didn't have the raised fiberglass pedestals in the 22 you could have fore and aft slide along with swivel, but I don't think it's really possible in your boat. The new 22's come with slide and swivel seats. Maybe it's time to move up to a newer 22. :biggrin:

[gcarter]

The sliders on my X and my 22 were fore and aft limited by the "locking hand wheel screw thingy"... If you remove it the seats come out and can be reversed. Do the Garelick's have a seperate stop (s) besides that??
The locking mechanism on the Garelick sliders is all on one side. There are pins fore and aft as well as a screw that limits the motion. It incorporates an aluminum block the lock screw screws into. They are not reversible from seat to seat. Each slider assembly is a left or right depending which way it is mounted. Since the locking screws of the two seats would be facing each other, they are not interchangeable. However, I have my seats where they come off the sliders very easily.

:wavey:

[MOP]

George what Poodle is saying is you can pull the lock bolt out slide the seat off the base reverse it facing aft to keep an eye on a skier. Thats an old trick that works well, I feel it is much better then using the not as strudy swivel bases.

Phil

[gcarter]

What I did, which takes just a couple of minutes, is to use some long screws w/flat and lock washers, and wing nuts. You can remove the seats by loosening the wing nuts and unscrewing the long screws by hand. Then just turn the seat around and remount.

[Ranman]

Do the Garelick's have a seperate stop (s)

Yes. There is the "locking hand wheel screw thingy", but Garelick has also drilled and pressed in dowel (or maybe roll) pins at each end to limit the travel and keep the seat from backing all the way off. I suppose if you pulled out the pins nothing would stop the two halves of the slider from coming apart.

[tamburello]

If my memory is correct, yeah right, my Garelicks had bolts instead of pressed in dowels to limit the travel fore and aft. I kept the back bolts but took out the front bolts to enable the seats to be slid forward and off of the base. I've never tried it but I would think that it is possible to slide them back on facing backwards.

- Jeff