Looking for a source for Tin or Pewter

[Rootsy]

Anyone out there know where i can get some Tin or Pewter (as in AFFORDABLE)? Need it for one of my other hobbies... need to play mr metallurgist...

scrap is FINE... it doesn't need to be new just fairly pure or alloyed with some antimony... i'll be smelting it and pouring ingots until i am ready to alloy it with Lead...

cheapest i've found Tin (Pewter) is 14.50 / lb new in ingot form... ouch...

Thanks eh

Root

[BERTRAM BOY]

Rootsy, How much do you need? shoot me an email.

[Rootsy]

Rootsy, How much do you need? shoot me an email.

Done... :)

[Walt. H.]

Casting bullets for your hand loads? :uzi: :fire:

Wheel weights from alignment shops is the way to go. $5.00 to $8.00 for a 5 gal size type joint compound pail full, and that usually yields about 75 - 90 lbs after casting into clean ingots. No barrel leading even at 1000 plus feet per second loads.

Ps, Now don't tell me your casting toy soldiers? :smash:

Walt :rlol:

[Rootsy]

Walt,

yes casting for my 45 colt right now and maybe for my 40 S&W in the future. i just finished an smelting an almost full 5 gallon bucket of wheel weights, i ended up with 90 1 lb ingots. the problem with wheel weights is that they only contain about 0.5% tin. It is difficult to get them to fill out a mold with sharp edges. Therefore you add Sn until you are about 2 - 2.5 % by weight. Your mold fill-out is heads above just straight WW. You will end up with about a 15 BHN and if you water drop them out of the mold you increase that to about 25 which will age soften in a few days to about 20 BHN... which is what my goal is.

I toss 270 gr SWC's about 1250 through the chrono and 310's at about 1140. this isn't max... i've sent 310's downrange at 1400 out of my blackhawk with H110 but it isn't fun... i've been loading with Hodgdon Longshot for my current hunting loads.. the recoil is much smoother, meaning you don't get the sharp pressure spike and recoil like you do with H110 or 296.

J

[Walt. H.]

Once my molds get up to operating temp the projectiles come out nice and sharp as is. I never tried water dropping them, I always dropped them onto a folded soft terry type shower towel so they don't distort and to cool slowly. One of the fellows I work with told me about water dropping them last year but I had safety issue regarding that method and never tried it because of steam entering a possible air void and causing it to explode? Or is that not an issue because they'll sink fast and be absorbed by 10 inches or more of water?

Hgd #110 is a very fast burning powder, plenty of dramatic flame travel out of the barrel, like that of the 16" guns of the Battleship "Missouri" going off. (everyone goes WOW! :eek!: :p
I like to use Winchester 231 powder, its very consistant shot to shot and really clean burning, Almost like having a self cleaning gun. :biggrin:

So Many Toys, So little Time to Play! :lookaroun

We can have it all but we can't do it all! :banghead:

I haven't done any for a while but my loading room looks like I was in there yesterday. :smash: :bonk: :rolleyes:

Walt :uzi:

[Rootsy]

Walt,

if you'd like to learn A LOT about casting lead bullets go over to shootersforum.com and check out the bullet casting forum... the gentleman who owns the forum also owns beartooth bullets... a lot of knowledge there... also if yuo want to read all about bullet casting from folks that have done a lot of research on the subject grab a copy of Lymans Cast bullet handbook 3rd edition... bout 14 bucks new.

as far as powders go.. H110 is a SLOW magnum pistol powder and identical to W296 (same powder different companies packaging). you need a HEAVY crimp and generally heavy bullets to get the powder working well.

Trust me... when i say 2 - 3% tin will dramatically help fill out a mold.. even a mold AT temp... i am not just talking out of my butt... i've invested a significant amount of time in researching this over the last year before making the investment in equipment. I've been casting round balls and conicals from pretty much PURE lead for my muzzleloader (i still have 38 lbs of pure lead) since i was an early teen using the "sit around the fire with the pot and ladel" method. hollow based conicals and mini's require mold temps on the order of 1000 F in order to get the thin end to fill out before solidification. you need to use something on top of the melt to keep it from seriously oxidizing off soluable additives.. kitty litter, boric acid, etc etc etc.

essentially the introduction of Sn into solution breaks up the grain structure size of the lead dendrites upon solidification allowing the alloy to flow more easily into small areas by allowing molten metal to flow between the now smaller, solidifying alloy crystals.

water dropping can be dangerous if you are TOO CLOSE to your melt... keep the bucket 3 or 4 feet from the pot (i use a Lee Production IV bottom pour) and put a piece of sponge or towel in the bottom of the water bucket. put a towel over the top, let it sag and touch the water... then slit it. the bullets hit the towel, roll down through the slit and land on the soft bottom.. resulting in NO splash. just turn the bucket every once in a while to keep the bullets from piling up on each other

through a material analysis using NIST standards todays WW material is pretty close to this make-up

cast clip on weights

Composition: 2.96% Sb, 0.41% Sn, 0.174% As, balance lead

stick on weights

Composition: 0.377% Sb, 1.45% Sn, 0.029% As, balance lead

Sb = antimony
Sn = Tin
As = Arsenic

not to say you cannot use straight WW for casting, it can be done and is. but if you have a mold with sharp deep corners such as the Keith style bullets i cast tin helps immensly. I had some 95/5 solder i added into a batch and castability increased significantly... i went from rounded corners to sharp crisp corners. now i just need enough Tin to alloy the 100 lbs of WW i have cast into ingots... lets see.. at 280 gr assuming 100% utilization that equals 2500 bullets.. that should hold me for a couple of months... since it is not uncommon for me to put 3 - 4000 rounds through my blackhawk a year... i reckon i'll have anouther 200 lbs to melt this next week.. just gotta go pick it up.

my minor in college was Materials Engineering ;) if and when i decide to return for a graduate degree it'll most likely be in this area...

J

[Walt. H.]

Ok thanks Jamie good to know,

I to have been involved in this sport and hobby for a great part of my life, I started out on my kitchen table and now I have a complete loading room for the past 22 - 24yr's, and at age 52 let me just give you a little advice. "Life is too short to be so technical on any one thing". :yes: Keep it simple otherwise it isn't fun anymore with anything you do or have!

Never turn fun into work, I was like you, I did and payed the stressful price of always thinking perfection was all that mattered. Now I'm relaxed more and the people around me are happier to be with.

Even casting for competition isn't "rocket science"

Anyway i'll catcha on the flip side, keep it fun, :cool!:

Walt :biggrin:

[Rootsy]

I'm going to give you a little advice. There's a force in the universe that makes things happen. And all you have to do is get in touch with it, stop thinking, let things happen, and be the ball. :yes:

[gcarter]

This thread is getting weirder and weirder :lightning :rolleyes: :hyper:

[boxy]

I'm going to give you a little advice. There's a force in the universe that makes things happen. And all you have to do is get in touch with it, stop thinking, let things happen, and be the ball. :yes:

NuhNuhNuhNuhNuhNuhnnnnnn

[Lenny]

You guys are scaring me. :eek:

What size props are on your Blackhawk Jamie :eek: :D

[Rootsy]

You guys are scaring me. :eek:

What size props are on your Blackhawk Jamie :eek: :D

Yeah. 220... 221, whatever it takes. :beer:

[Walt. H.]

WOW!!!
Scary like over the edge, rubber room material.

Sorry I pushed a button that hit a nerve or was it a bad week of too much caffeine?
Yes I was in error in stating Hdg #110 was a fast burning powder, I ment it has to be slow if it is going to throw flames out of the barrel as I did say it does because it is still burning, my mistake.

But whats up with all this?

"force in the universe that makes things happen"

"let things happen, and be the ball"

What the heck are you talking about?
Sounds like a phrase that Yoda the Jedi Master would say :rlol:
People ask what time is it, and you go into a analytical scenario of how a watch was made. Lighten up no one ever accused you of not knowing your stuff at least I haven't, so you don't have to feel threatened and need to over prove yourself and walk on water everytime a question is ask. :chillpill
Your loved like a son by some :cistineb: but stop jumping in peoples $hit, like mine right now. If I didn't know you better i'd swear you found "BayLiner" stickers on both sides of your boat.

Peace, keep the B.Pressure down and the mph up. :wink:

W.H

[Cuda]

I roll my own for my pistols and rifles. I don't cast the bullets though, they are too cheap just to buy. I use Oregon Trail cast.

[boxy]

at age 52 let me just give you a little advice. "Life is too short to be so technical on any one thing". Never turn fun into work, I was like you, I did and payed the stressful price of always thinking perfection was all that mattered.

Walt....do you think maybe this is what started it all ??

Sometimes if it's not perfect it doesn't work.....


Be the ball Danny, just be the ball.

Do you do drugs Danny ??
Everyday.
Good boy.

[Rootsy]

Walt ole buddy ole pal... it was a quote directly from Caddyshack... untangle your testicles already :rlol:

but just remember.. none of us know everything and there is always more than one way to skin a cat... :bonk:

Now that i know what those buttons on your control panel do... :nuke: :biggrin.:

J

PS. Cuda, i've shot the oregon bullets and the lasercast too... plus numerous others... most of em are all perfectly fine... just seems the design that i like and my revolver likes, costs me about 18 bucks / 100... :umbrella: i can cast, size and lube for about $ 0.009 / bullet if i can keep aquiring wheel weights for free... :) i still buy cast for the 40 S&W cause they are pretty cheap and fine for plinking :)

[Walt. H.]

Jamie,

I'm glad you feel that way and put it to print, because you always seem to come across as the one that has to show he knows more or done it first what ever it is, whether you realize it or not. :embarasse
I didn't say I know more then you just that i've been doing it satisfactorily for many years, like over 25 and probably have gotten a head start on you and wanted to share what i've learned.

Anyway thats what I was trying to relay to you that "no one knows everything", thanks for pointing that out to me to. :D
People have been doing what we do long before anyone here was born.
I never told my father how babies are made for obivous reasons. :rlol: He had that experience long before me. :confused:

Thanks Boxy,
For defusing this issue:
Yes nothing in this world is perfect that is why pencils have erasers, most things still work quite well and life goes on.


Sometimes there is no right or wrong way, just different ways.
Next time i'll keep my thought's to myself.

Later omigo's :sombrero:
W.

[Rootsy]

W,

Its Amigo ;) ;) ;)

And, it's winter up there I hear :D :D :D

Dear Lord MP, don't push the red button for heaven's sake... :eek: :rlol: :jestera:

Let it snow let it snow let it snow... :umbrella: gives me more time to brush up on my quantum physics ya know... :beer:

J

[mattyboy]

as I read this thread several thoughts pop into my head
so in no particular order
A) he lost his testicles in an unfortunate schmelting accident,
look my winkie is gooooold. they call him goldmember ( ok not as funny as caddy shack but good for a few laughs)

B) where did it land ?? right in the lumber yard danny

C) and the words of a very wise man " just cause you've be doing it for 40yrs doesn't mean you've be doing it right for 40yrs

D) don't play with matches, only you can prevent forrest fires

E) do chopper guns use real bullets????

F) it's the most wonderful time of the year, chestnuts ROASTING ON AN OPEN FIRE!!!! :tongue: :rlol: hehehehehe

G) I roll my own but it has nothing to do with guns, if ya know what I mean

[Walt. H.]

Nope!
You heard wrong not winter until the 25th, Its still fall.
Opps error again :biggrin: not until the 21st.
I see the anal disease is contagious and spreading fast. :jestera: :rlol: :jestera:

O A migo :wavey:

[mattyboy]

tis the flu season you know
germs are everywhere :yes:

[Rootsy]

anal? hey.. if you're gonna do something, you might as well do it RIGHT or don't bother at all...

sure looks like winter here... 6 inches and accumulating quickly...

J