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View Full Version : Redardless of your Candidate, what do you think of Temporary Workers?



Lenny
10-22-2004, 12:18 PM
Bush Says He's for Temporary Work Visas
Friday, October 22, 2004


WASHINGTON — President George W. Bush (search) told a Spanish-language television interviewer Thursday that he supports offering temporary legal status to immigrants who want jobs that go unfilled by United States citizens.

Bush, who says the United States should find a more humane way to treat immigrants said the card would provide temporary legal status for undocumented immigrants or those who want to come to the United States to work. But he said he would not offer amnesty.

"I recognize that people are coming here to work," Bush said in a White House interview with Univision. "And while they're doing jobs that aren't filled by Americans, I think there should be a temporary worker program and a card that helps the workers and employers who want them."

The president had made immigration reform a priority, but put it on the back burner after the Sept. 11, 2001 terror attacks. He championed immigration reform again in a White House speech in January, but election politics have blocked progress on legislative action.

In a separate interview Thursday with Telemundo, Bush said he deserves the support of Hispanics in the Nov. 2 election because of his plans for security, education, and health care. Bush also expressed gratitude to Hispanic families that have lost loved ones in the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, adding that they died for a noble cause.

Here we have very little "illegal immigrant" problems BUT we have a "training wage" scenario, that creates a similar inbalance. You have to acrue something like 600 hours under the "Training wage" before getting paid the full minimum wage. As it turns out, employers are free to "let go" workers or suddenly have no work for them and then hire them back and have them start over. Great for the employer, but terrible for the employee.

Don't you think that by allowing immigrant workers into your States, under a sponsorship by the Federal Government and the Employer, that employee abuses by such giants as Wal-Mart, (to name one), will further errode your employment opportunities? This could have the effect of creating a "China style" workforce in the USA to complement the employers already having products made overseas...???

I do remember Scot Van A pointing out to me that there are a lot of jobs that nobody wants and that Mexicans frequently fill them. The fellas I was watching, breaking concrete and paving in 100 degree weather in Texas comes to mind :eek:

Or am I out to lunch on this :confused:

gcarter
10-22-2004, 12:38 PM
Two issues here Lenny.
1) Minimum wages here are an awful Red Herring.
Minimum wage is only expected to be paid for a short time, yet Democrats would tell you that large families are dependent one wage earner being paid minimum wage.
If you would poll workers, you would find people in menial jobs make substantially more than minimum wage. Believe me, I know these things. The REAL issue about minimum wage has to do with Federal contracts and labor unions demanding their workers get a percentage over minimum wage regardless of wages. So when minimum wage goes up, every union worker on a Federal contract automatically gets a raise. Then these new labor rates then trickle down through the rest of society.
2) I would welcome well investigated guest workers that we know about, rather than millions coming over the border that we don't know about.

MissRepublican
10-22-2004, 12:54 PM
Temporary work visas provide something that is largely ignored by both the left and the right: the ability to clarify the status of immigrants immediately, the ability to identify and monitor immigrants, and the immediate right to apprehend, incarcerate, or deport anyone not possessing the temporary work permit.

This plan could immediately separate the honest workers from those up to no good. If a potential immigrant wants to come here to work, he need only apply for the temporary permit; each application could then be submitted to Homeland Security (NOT the DOL). Applicant data and/or fingerprints, etc. could be entered into a database; anyone flagged as a person of concern would be denied a permit.

This would offer the US the opportunity to control or channel the ingress of immigrants. After a suitable implementation period, any foreign national not in compliance would be subject to immediate action by DOJ or Homeland Security.

gcarter
10-22-2004, 01:53 PM
MP, the Great Green Card Folly failed because the hoops were too high to jump through. I used to work w/ a bunch of Brit engineers, one of which wanted to get a Green Card. His legal costs alone were over $15,000.00.
We need something simple for farm workers who will leave in six months.

RedDog
10-22-2004, 01:55 PM
I see a lot of insightful points made through out this thread. You Donzi guys aren't just "gear heads."

I haven't formed a real firm opinion on this topic, but I naturally lean toward MP's thoughts on the need for real enforcement.

On the flip side, permiting the workers could also put them on the tax roles.

gcarter
10-22-2004, 01:58 PM
I agree w/ MP also. The problem now is there isn't a mechanism to for anything other than the status quo.

MOP
10-22-2004, 03:02 PM
The immigrant thing is a grating issue out here on Long Island as I am sure all over the US. A few years back they would work for a fair to cheap wage which made most hire them, now that they basically "control" that working segment and have worked into the skilled area. They have upped the anti to point that our contractors are having to pay full scale and now are starting to try to switch back to Americans. But due to them flooding the work place it is hard to find Americans to do the work. It use to be the Americans talking would not work for that $$, now the contractors try to phase them in and the immigrants make it very tough for them to survive working with them. My son in law has 12 working for him and tries to break in new Americans, but the immigrants break chops screw up the Americans work etc until the quit. It is like an immigrant union, most of the contractors I know would like to figure out how to break the chain but can not. The cheap labor is no more, they just have taken over at higher wages and will not let go! A few of my retired buds had side lawn and garden jobs to help to tide them over, that has pretty much come to an end for most as the south of the boarder guys are scooping up all the work. I say send them home, let them improve their own countries with the new skills!

Phil

Darrell
10-22-2004, 07:05 PM
Two issues here Lenny.
1) Minimum wages here are an awful Red Herring.
Minimum wage is only expected to be paid for a short time, yet Democrats would tell you that large families are dependent one wage earner being paid minimum wage.
If you would poll workers, you would find people in menial jobs make substantially more than minimum wage. Believe me, I know these things. The REAL issue about minimum wage has to do with Federal contracts and labor unions demanding their workers get a percentage over minimum wage regardless of wages. So when minimum wage goes up, every union worker on a Federal contract automatically gets a raise. Then these new labor rates then trickle down through the rest of society.
2) I would welcome well investigated guest workers that we know about, rather than millions coming over the border that we don't know about.

I'am sure that may be where you are from, but I see what many folks make, due the nature of my job, and In north Texas and SW Oklahoma you whould be suprised just how many are making minimum wage. I don't think that it is all that bad at the level it is @ now. I don't support the ideal of bringing in outside workers no more than I support the current trend of outsourcing jobs.

Darrell

Formula Jr
10-23-2004, 06:19 AM
I've heard the "no one else will do these jobs" argument for a long time now. That is a hard argument to sell these days.

I've worked in many areas someone might call low skill labor type jobs. They didn't pay much, but I always enjoyed them, even the really nasty stuff like x-mas tree shagging.
Its a fact of life out here with the way my state's economy goes through wild swings, that companies come and go in the blink of an eye. But there was always something I could pick up during the down times. That's no longer the case. Those jobs are not even advertized anymore cause its all Hush, Hush....Wink Wink.

It does very strange things also with local economies and "communities" - if that word even means anything anymore. A while back there was a fish processing company that wanted to locate in Newport on the Oregon Coast. "This will boost the local economy" They said. "This will help with the local fishermen." So the plant gets a huge, long term property tax break to locate in Newport. The city water processing systems are beefed up. The plant is built, and all the locals go to bed with dreams of some kind of future employment in a very depressed area. But the newspaper never seems to post the anticipated call up. And the fishermen, who by now had spent money on rigging to catch a certain kind of fish are wondering why no contracts are being offered. Mean while, just outside of town a shanty village is quickly built. And starts to fill up with people, who, well, don't seem to be very local. A strange, big fish hauler comes into port, off loads fish and leaves. The plant goes into production, the townies all see their electric, water and taxes go up. WTF. By this time, the Mayor is so pissed off he demands an investigation into the operation of the plant. Seems that aside from eight, US citizen, plant managers, the entire labor force is made up of "documented workers." And there was nothing, Newport, the county or the State of Oregon could do about it cause its all legal.
So here was an example of a company that was "in-sourced." Yes , it payes some taxes. But did nothing, to very little for the local community. It in effect, transplanted a whole other community. They even have their own ethnic food store - owned by the fish plant. The companie's rational has steadfastly been, "That no one else would do these jobs." Ask any one of the hundreds of locals, struggling with poverty and that grew-up in that area and they will tell you something else.