Progress and lack there of C18-C32

[mphatc]

It's been a while since I shared my trials and tribulations . .

My Ford 302 to Bravo conversion . . . . was all sorted and working last Thursday afternoon. I mean everything was COOOOL !!! Then I pulled the dipstick . . one final check before launching . . .

low and behold, a coffee frappe! :eek!: :bawling: :bawling:

I mean I literally cried. After many months of wrong parts deliveries, and custom fabrication to mate all the H&M parts with a Bravo , replacing a fuel tank, etc.. and building a whole new 302 / 375 hp Ford this happens . . . .

Today I finally mustered the energy to dig in find out why what failed and caused the engine oil to take in 1-2 quarts of water while running twice on the trailer for a total of 20 minutes.

Off with the intake, all looked good
Off with the head on port . . . all looked good
Off with the starboard head . . . all looked good

the block was magnafluxed and pressure tersted prior to building . .

Standing in the sun I see a very weird spot from the intake tract on the port head. The sun was lighting up a red stain . . on a brand new head ??? looks like a GT40 P head has an internal waterleak leaking water into the combustion chamber. The stain is a rust bubble . . . heads have been sent out for x-ray and pressure testing . . . and my new engine is now pickled in oil . . .

while it's apart I'm going change the oil pan from the NEW leaky steel POS to a cast Aluminum T bottom Cobra from H&M . . .

I was so close . . . atleast for me the only feel good is that it wasn't a stupid mistake I made . . .

Mario wishing I had a running boat !

[Rootsy]

none of the head bolts were leakin were they?

[Fish boy]

hey mario,
sorry to hear about your setback. At least you caught it when you did, but it still sucks when you are so close. Hope that was the last speedbump and you will be boating soon.

Fish

[gcarter]

Mario wishing I had a running boat !

Mario, "I feel your pain"
I hope it goes back together soon.

[mattyboy]

Mario,
hang in there ;)

[mphatc]

Thanks for all the encouragement . . back to step one.

Heads pressure tested OK **** !

next I'll pull the engine and reinstall the heads and intake with cheap gaskets (because I 'll need to clean the cylinders after), drop the pan and pressurize the cooling system and see where it pisses in!

While I'm there . . . I am thinking of a closed loop cooling system . . any suggestions ?

Mario, professional disassembler !

[gcarter]

Hi Mario, I bought mine from this company;
http://www.oceaneastmarine.com/
They sell several different brands. I purchased a full system San Juan for my 5.7 Vortec for just over $600.00 including tax. However you wouldn't pay tax as this company is in Florida. They are shipped from the manufacturer. You have to call them to order, no online orders.
:smile:

[Ranman]

none of the head bolts were leakin were they?

A couple of the headbolts have unique sealing requirements, as they pass through water passages, don't they?

[mphatc]

Ranman,

If I could only be so lucky!
Checked this, but not on a Ford 302 / 5.0

There are 10 bolts per side, only 5 under the rocker - valve cover and these enter into blind holes.

The other 5 are outside the head, under the exhaust manifold and would leak externally. These were sealed at the head interface.

Ordered my new oil pan today as the POS I bought on ebay did not fit well. I now have a cast aluminum Cobra T bottom pan coming!

Maybe Sunday I'll pull the engine . . . got to keep going . . can't let this get me down . . cause October on Winni is wonderful !

Mario

[Ranman]

Mario,

Now that I think of it, they weren't head bolts that pass through water passaes, but a manifold bolt or two. Can't remember which ones or how many, but at least one of these bad boys needs sealant on it as it hits a jacket. I know this is on the late model 5.0L's and maybe even the older ones too.

I assume you had this covered. I'm not a mechanic by any means, but I did wrench on a 95 Mustang for a bit. Let us know what you come up with.

[JWCall]

Mario,
I was just on ebay and there is a guy selling a NOS cast aluminum HM oil pan. Its marine and sounds like it would be perfect for you because I didnt think that HM was still selling the marine oil pans through their website. Either way it looks like a great part. The auction # is 7918653849.

Good luck with the corsicans

[Gearhead99]

If the heads are good, you'll usually find that the leak is coming from intake to head surface.

If the heads are machined too much the intake won't fit down enough and water will get by and enter the engine.

If you drain everything, water, from the engine and then pull the plugs and you have water there....pull the intake and look down the intake runners on the heads. Look for water. There's a good chance that's where you'll find your problem.

Just fixed one of these problems, on 289 V-8 Mustang, that had been to two other shops that couldn't find anything wrong with them.

Good luck.

[mphatc]

Folks,

Last year I wrote how my 302 leaked water into the sump . . whole new engine . . .

Well over the past few months as time allowed I removed the engine , did a bunch of tests . . wasted two more sets of headgaskets . . . still I found more water in the cylinders! Obviously I was very frustrated , disassembled the whole thing and sent it off to the machine shop for more magnfluxing and pressure testing of the bare block . . all tests showed that the block was OK!

As two machine shops and myself and 2 of my techs were now thoroughly dumbfounded I brought it to another machine shop, the one that does all the machine work on the race engines I build for my customers. They proceeded to redo the same tests I did, wasting another set of headgaskets, measuring checking and rechecking . . . . they found leakage past the headgaskets at the sealing surfaces. FWIW, my tests with water pressure were with a totally assembled engine, they had a bare block and heads.

When they tested they turned the engine upside down, presurized with water they found leakage caused by coarsely machined head and block surfaces. Note that these surface were inspected by atleast 7 professional engine builders and none ever thought that the surface was to rough!!

FWIW, they knew the shop that did the initial machine work, and had experienced a similar problem from them years before . . .

So all surfaces were re-machined to a mirror smooth surface, another set of marine headgaskets and I can reassemble my boat again.

Total out of pocket expenses ~ $1500.00 ARRGH! I am pissed.

This time it goes on a dyno before it goes in the boat!

Mario

[MOP]

I was hoping you would show up soon, thought maybe you had gone into hibernation. Damn that took awhile what a bummer, a bit painful but thankfully solved. So will you be wet by spring, did you get the name on it yet? 1000 Islands hopefully is on your agenda.

Phil

[mphatc]

Phil,

Yes we'll be at 1000 Islands . . .

as for a name, Linda and I have decided on no name . . the boat has no real space for it w/o ruining the visuals . . .

Mario

[boxy]

Great news Mario. It'll be great to see you and Linda in the Islands again.
:biggrin: Another non red and white, non Michigan boat, I'm getting closer... :D

[MOP]

Your boat and Reds are my two favorites hope both show up this year, be good to see you running. I think it is going to be a pretty big group this year one. As long as it is not like Victory at Sea, been there done that!!!

Phil

[mattyboy]

Mario,
damn you had me scared there for a bit I said no way not again then i read the dates
glad it all coming together see u in 1000 islands

Boxy a non red non MI boat but a ford non volvo boat
so how does this effect the point spread??? ;)

[olredalert]

-------Good going, Mario. We all knew you would find the problem. And as a bonus it looks like we will have Corsican flags as well. Im stoked about that. Ol No.54 is coming together as well. Got the Scorpion plenum polished out. Have to go pick it up today from the polisher. Should look pretty cool along with the ball-milled, polished valvecovers and a few other bright pieces. Keep us in the info loop!!!!............Bill S

[TREYSTJOHN]

If it is any help, we only use Cometic Gasket Multi-Layer Stainless head gaskets on all our engines. Since we started doing this all head gasket related issues have ceased. www.cometicgasket.com (http://www.cometicgasket.com)

Trey