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TuxedoPk
08-09-2004, 10:45 PM
After a season of learning my friends and family are weenies who don't enjoy our type of boats I've decided to purchase a larger boat to take them out on. I'm at the very beginning phase of looking for a boat and would benefit from the board's suggestions as to what size/type/brand of boat would best meet my goals.

I'm looking for something in the 32'-37' range, comfortable and with decent ammenities. Some performance would be nice but it's not the primary consideration. I will be purchasing something pre-owned and would like to find a boat that will be easily sold when the time comes and have a better than average depreciation. I'm looking to spend about $50-$100k and would be happy if I wind up around the $75k mark. I've been toying with boats like the Sundancer and Formula PC but I'm open to any suggestions. Sleeping for up to 6 would be nice, but in reality, only sleeping for 2 is needed. Almost always there will only be 6 on board.

Thanks for helping me identify the right boats to be looking at.

Lenny
08-09-2004, 10:49 PM
Simple, a 38 ZR that has been beat up a bit :D

No question in my mind.

Get a new wife and kids, I did, at least the first half of the equation :D

TuxedoPk
08-09-2004, 10:58 PM
Simple, a 38 ZR that has been beat up a bit :D

No question in my mind.

Get a new wife and kids, I did, at least the first half of the equation :D

The thought might be more tempting if I could find a 38ZR in the price range ;) The right boat is more likely to be an AFT cabing with a sign "My other boats are Donzis". This decision is less about my tastes and more about what everyone will most enjoy. I am looking forward to a full head though!

Lenny
08-09-2004, 11:20 PM
Full Head comes in any boat :)

ITTLFLI
08-10-2004, 07:48 AM
Full Head comes in any boat :)


:biggrin.:

MOP
08-10-2004, 08:04 AM
If you buy another go fast they still may not be happy, something more sedate may be in order. Then having a class act Donzi or two in the back ground would surely be in order.

gcarter
08-10-2004, 08:14 AM
I agree with Phil. If it were me in NJ (what a rediculous idea!) I would look for a FBSF that needed some work. It always seemed to me that manufacturers in NJ built really good boats in the '70's. I owned one and worked on and considered buying another.

Lenny
08-10-2004, 09:07 AM
What is wrong with your Doral. (24' and a potty) Doesn't that fill the bill?

TuxedoPk
08-10-2004, 09:17 AM
Phil- I'm NOT looking for another go fast boat

Lenny-The Doral is awesome but I'm looking for something much bigger

George-What does FBSF stand for?

Cuda
08-10-2004, 09:46 AM
Flying Bridge Sport Fisherman

Cuda
08-10-2004, 09:48 AM
You already hit my choice, a Formual PC. Deb and I already decided when we get OLD, that's what we'll get.

Keep in mind that a FBSF doesn't have the amenities of a PC.

Last Tango
08-10-2004, 10:04 AM
Donzi Z3250 series...

gcarter
08-10-2004, 12:58 PM
IMO FBSF's are great for families. EVERYBODY wants to ride on the fly bridge, which has a great view. Also the nice large cockpit down close to the water line makes swimming etc. very easy. Usually they will be equipped with a gen set and AC units, two staterooms plus the salon will easily sleep six so you don't get that "bunkhouse" feeling.

Lenny
08-10-2004, 06:02 PM
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Lenny
08-11-2004, 12:04 AM
Wouldn't that be a NICE additon to your fleet. Probably wouldn't get stuck oin strange places as often either. And 2 miles to the gallon doesn't suck either for twins. Gorgeous boats, we have some here. They never seem to depreciate with the masses regardless of age. :)

TuxedoPk
08-11-2004, 02:10 AM
The Bertram sure has some great lines.. Kinda makes me wish I was into fishing. A more traditional express cruiser better matches how I'll be using the boat though.

Tango- The 3250 would certainly fit my needs but I've been told from multiple sources that this is definately a Donzi model to avoid.

With crappy weather today I spent some time crawling around a 36' Silverton today. Layout/ammenity wise was a good match, perhaps even a few feet larger than I need.

Islander
08-11-2004, 02:19 AM
You need a Hinckley SC 38 Express. Can't get much classier than that.

http://www.hinckleyyachts.com/

Dr. Dan
08-11-2004, 05:45 AM
:beer: I agree with Poodle...the Bertrams are awesome....I had a friend redo a older Hatt....it was a 45'..."Hydro Therapy" we had some incredible times with that boat....he picked it up in rough shape for about $70K. Some other nice Cruisers are the older Formula PC's and even some St. Tropez' by I think by WellCraft? I have had friend or relatives who owned both models I believe they were 32 to 36 Footers. I was amazed at what condition these were in and they had very Classic Express Cruiser lines.

The late 80's Models were all in the $45 to $70K Range....depending on power. I would suggest you hook up with Frank Civitano...he has a pulse on the local market and is Privy to Trade Ins at his Dealership! Also Trenton Marine...have alot of these as well.....either way you can't go wrong....try to go with Diesel if possible. The BBC's are incredibly Thursty in these little Yachts! but if they are well maintained....I think these styles would fit the Bill...there are many Models...outside of these...some of which were listed above.

My Father In Law was looking at a "First Boat" and fell in love with the Formula 40 PC with Twin Yanmars....nice first boat for the Paltry some of $440,000. Luckily he passed....although it was a nice Rig...he is not a Boater.....not even close.

Good Luck Rich!

Doc :beer:

gcarter
08-11-2004, 07:07 AM
The last boat I looked at like this was a late '70's 38' Pacemaker, this model was a short 40'. Was also available w/aft cabin, although I never saw one.
This boat was in tremendous condition. If I remember correctly, twin 260 HP Volvo diesels w/ZF down angle trannies, Onan 8 KW diesel gen set, 500 gals of fuel, three AC units, down galley, two staterooms, head w/ separate shower, & large salon, upper & lower stations. The only thing this boat needed was a new interior, structure was sound, just cosmetics. Was asking $35K, sold for about $20K.
I guess not many people are like me and like a challenge.

Fish boy
08-11-2004, 07:18 AM
TUx,
when my brother and I used to sell boats, we had particularly good resale with one line- SeaRay. They make two models in the 34-35ft range; sundancer and I think express (also make an express with a bridge).

One of the reasons they were so easy to sell was becasue they were so user friendly to non-boating people. It was more like a little home on the water than a boat to people who were not boaters. Very copmfortable inside, all the amenaties of home, etc.

I am personally not a huge fan of them, but if I were in a predicament such as the one you described, i would have to look hard at them.

The one down side is that you will have to look pretty hard to find a deal. Sea Ray really puts people to bed when they buy new, and most people are so upside down in them it is hard to find a deal. We bought most of ours from banks as the were about to or just after they reposessed.

Good luck,

fish

PS. I would prefer the diesels, but they run fine with gas. Not having diesel fumes in or around the cockpit when running might prevent a case or two of sea-sickness as well- but will hurt on resale.

gcarter
08-11-2004, 07:41 AM
PS. I would prefer the diesels, but they run fine with gas. Not having diesel fumes in or around the cockpit when running might prevent a case or two of sea-sickness as well- but will hurt on resale.

This is another reason everyone ends up on the bridge!LOL

TuxedoPk
08-11-2004, 09:19 AM
Fishboy-With SO many SeaRay Sundancers for sale at any given time I've often wondered whether they hold their value well and how difficult they are to sell when the time comes.

Disel-Will fumes be much more of an issue on 3x' boat than a larger boat? One of my nephews is autistic and extremely sensitive to smells.

George-I'd need to find a really oversized tower to avoid fighting amount my nephews as to who gets to sit up top!

Dan-Thanks I'll be looking up the St. Tropez this morning.

Hinckley is awesome! Not the appropriate style for my intended audience but one I'd prefer to own myself.

Fish boy
08-11-2004, 10:10 AM
TUx,
I am sure there will be a variety of opinons on the subject of diesels and everyone is entitled to theirs. There is no disputing the relability and the vast difference bewteen hours to rebuild of a gas engine versus an diesel- diesel is a hands down winner.

However, IMHO, the fumes from a diesels rolling back in to the back from a diesel, especially at low cruising speeds is one of the two biggest contributing factors to people getting seasick. I just brought a 54 bertram back form the bahamas last week with two other people- both EXTREMELY expereinced boaters (much more than me). We were on the cusp of some of the tropical storms moving along the coast of florida and the islands and althought none would admit to the others, we all felt queezy. I have not been seasick since i was about 10 yrs old, but the wind kept kicking the fumes up towards the bridge and it had an effect on all of us.

I have also seen a number of people who try to hang out in the cockpit during a tournament and also get a little green from the fumes. Depending on whether I liked them or not, they got advice that would make it go away or make them hang over the side ;)

ANyway, like I said, lots of opinions, but IMHO, it is something to consider, especially with your nephew, and also considering that a low to mid 30ft boat does not have to have diesels like a larger boat would for the power.

You will also pay significantly less (but also sell for less) for a gas versus a diesel boat.

Good luck.

Fish

PS the upside to them is better resale, better power, cheaper fuel- all pretty compelling.

Jamesbon
08-11-2004, 10:59 AM
TuxedoPk,
We have many, many pre owned boats in stock matching your criteria. Check out our website @ www.BayWayMarine.com . Pics and prices of all our inventory are listed.

Take a look and let me know how I can help you.

Nathan (Jamesbon)
www.baywaymarine.com
(727) 458 9721

gcarter
08-11-2004, 11:56 AM
There is a way to get rid of the fumes, but it requires modifying the boat a bit. I first saw this in Dr. Lindsey Lord's book; "Naval Architecture of Planing Hulls", where he talks about running the exhaust out the bottom of the boat. The effect is to actually supercharge the engines by scavanging the exhaust. Thiswould work best in a step, but apparently works well anyway, but ultimately gets rid of the fumes by exhausting below the waters surface. Just a note, those who haven't heard of Dr. Lord, he invented the deep-V hull. C Raymond Hunt came after him and made some of the modifications we know today, like; strakes, and round bottom.
So to summarize, no fumes under way, engine performance increase, no mufflers.

Cuda
08-11-2004, 04:02 PM
Add the fact that diesels are also less likely to explode from fumes.

Personally, I love the smell of diesel and squid, it reminds me of when I was young living in Panama City and going out on my freind's dad's 40 Chris Craft.

The smell of raw diesel always reminds me of my dad. :)

TuxedoPk
08-11-2004, 04:37 PM
Anyone have any experience with the 37' Sunseeker Tomohawk?

boldts
08-11-2004, 04:54 PM
My Grandfather owned a Trojan 36' Fly Bridge Sedan. Full bathroom including a standup shower. Room for 2 in the bow, 2 more as the dinette converted to a bed and 2 more on a pull-out couch in the salon. Driving or riding on the fly bridge gives the best view and the wind in your hair feeling if you wish. If the weather isn't cooperating, in the salon is another driving station to keep you out of the weather. Twin inboards to spin that puppy on a dime if needed and put her anywhere including the dock with-out wiping out the boat in the process.

Trojan boats are or were built by the Amish. Beautiful craftsmanship through out and rock solid! My grandfather didn't recommend the Pacemaker as they have a round hull bottom. They would rock side to side even while sitting still in a dock. He kept his boat at Cedar Point in Sandusky, Ohio on Lake Erie. A lake known for kicking up very fast and very suddenly. Haven't looked at Trojans recently, but back when grandpa had his, I couldn't remember another boat I liked more for the looks.

As far as diesels go, I remember riding on a friend of my grandfather's 40' Chris Double Cabin Express with a fully enclosed rear cockpit. The fumes were very present and definately had an effect on those riding on the boat. While under way, a seat next to an open window with air flow was the place to be. Now if all you wanted to do was entertain guest at the dock or a place for 12 of your friends to sleep, it was a fantastic cruiser also.

Good luck with your search Rich. Remember, your paying for it, not the guests who are enjoying it at your expense. Buy what fits your needs as you'll never be able to satisfy everyone. Plan on half your day every weekend for spit and shinning it.

mjpcowboy
08-11-2004, 04:55 PM
You cant rule out SeaRay or Regal's. The new 35 and 38 foot Regals are a great cruiser with some decent speed but are a little spendy at $225 to $300K.

TuxedoPk
08-12-2004, 02:16 AM
If I keep an open mind as to FBSF as well as express cruiser styles should the old Hatteras 41 Convert. be on the shortlist to consider along with the 31' Bertram?

The others that on now on the short list are:

Formula 34' PC
Regal
Sea Ray Sundancer
Wellcraft St. Tropez
Sunseeker Tomahawk

Are 4winns, Silverton, Maxum, Chap, Larson worth considering? Any others that should be added to the list that I should be looking at for consideration?

Jamesbon
08-12-2004, 09:23 AM
Here's just a few from your short list. We have alot more.

How much can you spend? Personally, I would include the Hatteras and Bertrams in my search.

'03 Rinker 31 $99,900
'00 Sundancer 31 $99,500
'00 Cobalt 29 $74,900
'92 Formula 29 PC $38,900
'98 Sundancer 27 $35,900

Jamesbon
08-12-2004, 09:31 AM
'73 Hatteras 45 w/Whaler :) $139,900
'73 Bertram 28 $36,900
'81 Bertram 28 $47,90
'93 Silverton 34 $89,900

PaulO
08-12-2004, 03:06 PM
If you have not done the type of cruising which can be done with a good 32 + footer, you are missing out on an incredible boating lifestyle. I love the go-fast stuff but weekends and vacations on a good cruiser are unbelievable! The trick is buying well and knowing what you want before you learn the hard way. IMHO - avoid the glitzy express cruisers that are so popular now. Go for the old fashioned sport fish or convertible or, if you have the time and patience - a trawler. Unless you are buying an express in excess of 40 feet, the cabin although nicely appointed, will become the "cave" on an extended sleepover. Avoid the newer, thinner, cheaper hulls especially the Searay stuff with coring and prop pockets. Forget V drives. Although interior layout and finish is important, don't forget (like most do) that it is a boat and you will find construction, seaworthiness, and performance big plusses. Most boats are bought from boat shows and showrooms with very little in the way of sea trial or real comparison of construction or seaworthiness. The dealers would rather sell you on glitz and amenities. Bring the wife along, compare a new Luhrs, Blackfin, Riviera, etc. to the Searays, Maxums, etc. and your wife will want the latter. More glitzy interior for less money.
Now, you are not buying a new boat so, where does all my opinionated advice put you? Go find an older (mid - late 80s) 32 - 37 foot convertible that was built well when new ( Egg Harbor, Viking, Bertram, Hatteras, etc.) and is good mechanical and structural shape ( diesels are a huge +) and if it needs some interior upgrading that will be the least amount of money you will have to put into a boat. It is amazing how well the older well built hulls retain their value. Get out to all the great overnight spots, swim and relax and even enjoy a good thunderstorm in your air conditioned salon.
PaulO

gcarter
08-12-2004, 03:33 PM
I agree with everything Paul said except I would include some '70's boats. Some of these earlier 'glass boats are beautifully built. Remember, these builders a few years before were still building wood hulls, they were in a transition period. I think you'll find many of these earlier boats were less likely to have osmotic blisters. And the statement by Scott Boldt only applied to the wooden hulled Pacemakers, not the 'glass ones with hard chines. These older NJ builders have been around for generations and if you look at their "family tree" you'll find the ownership of Egg Harbor, Pacemaker, Post, and Ocean all entertwined. I think many of these boats could last 80 to 100 years if they were continually maintained and modernized, kind of like we do with our Donzis!

PaulO
08-12-2004, 04:24 PM
Trojan made some very solid boats especially the international series. I think they were linked with Bertram at the time. No diesel options though unless the new Yanmars fit in the engine compartment. As far as the diesel fumes debate - it depends on the boat. My 36 Chris Craft Commander has twin Cummins diesels and you never even smell them. Side exhausts probably have a lot to do with that. Only time you will know it is diesel is if you come right up next to a tall bulkhead and trap the exhaust. Even then, it isn't unpleasant - of course, I think bus exhaust smells good!
I just took the plunge this year with the diesels and so far I am thrilled. The difference in performance is astounding as is the economy. And as an added incentive, diesel fuel is about 60 cents per gallon cheaper than gas here on the water. You put twin BBCs in a 35 -36 cruiser and you are either going real slow or burning tons of fuel either of which can cut down on your boating enthusiasm. As gas prices climb, those diesel boats will retain a much greater percentage of their value than their gas powered brotheres. One gallon of diesel per hour produces approximately 20 HP - One gallon of gas per hour produces 11 HP.

PaulO

boldts
08-12-2004, 05:07 PM
gcarter,

Thank-you for the correction about the Pacemakers. It's been very many years since I've looked at cruisers. I believe my grandfathers 36' Trojan was still a wood boat, but might have been one of the first years in the conversion to fiberglass. It's been soooooo long and I really miss the vacations we used to spend on that boat as kids. Of course, it being at Cedar Point wasn't a bad thing either! :D

Cuda
08-12-2004, 05:50 PM
I also like the Trojan International. A few years back I was looking at cruisers, and that's the one I liked. They were somehow affiliated with Bertram at the time, but I don't remember how. Great looking boats, especially the express. It seems people liked the way they were built and the way they handled and rode.

TuxedoPk
08-12-2004, 05:55 PM
Do any of those fishing boats have a decent cruising speed? I would ideally like to be cruising at 35+

olredalert
08-12-2004, 06:30 PM
--------1978 58 Hatteras. Sitting here in an estate. Beautiful, fresh water condition. Might need some canvas, maybe a new interior. Somewhere around $225,000. Step up and keep a full time captain happy...........Bill S

gcarter
08-12-2004, 07:13 PM
These boats don't cruise at 35. This may take a little mental adjustment. Generally these boats will cruise at 20 and top end at 30-35 but that's about twice as fast as a trawler. :banghead: They'll get about 1 MPG or less. Unless it's a ternament boat, then all bets are off. The sky's the limit. :wavey: