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bverd
08-08-2004, 10:43 AM
Question: Will my battery explode?

While spark retarding vent caps help, recharging a battery produces hydrogen and oxygen gasses.Battery explosions can also occur when the electrolyte level is below the top of the plates. If a spark or flame occurs, an explosion will occur.

Well in all my boatting life I have never experienced what happened yesterday. That sound of a shotgun blast in the bilge of the boat.

http://atlanticcoastdonzi.com/gallery/albums/members_bverd_misc/Dsc01381.jpg
It actually broke one of the stainless bolts holding the top of the battery box.

http://atlanticcoastdonzi.com/gallery/albums/members_bverd_misc/Dsc01384.jpg
Total Carnage.

Went thru two bottles of bilge cleaner and two boxes of baking soda and about an hour of just hosing things off when cleanning the bilge. I still can't believe this happened.

If you think it is time to replace your battery then do it and don't wait. I actually ran out of time on Friday and didn't get a new one like I was planning to. Unbelievable.

--bverd

gcarter
08-08-2004, 11:26 AM
Back in '68 or '69 while I still worked @ NASA in Houston, a buddy of mine worked in the zero-G facility (a big water tank). They had a 12V deepcycle battery in a water proof box that was used to power some TV lights in the tank. My buddy got to work late one day and a co-worker took his place in the tank. After about five minutes in the tank, the battery exploded, shattering the battery box, taking off the head of the co-worker. While this is an extreme example, these things are dangerous. Can you imagine a face full of acid? :eek:

MOP
08-08-2004, 11:50 AM
I have seen several blow up, gel cells need a lesser charge rate. You can buy a controller, have the alternator reworked or use lead acid batteries. I hope you did some serious bilge washing, and I mean each and every inch top to bottom and then some. You will be amazed what starts to corrode, that stuff blows and mists all over the compartment.

Fish boy
08-08-2004, 12:08 PM
Had one blow up in my face on my vette. Fortunately the cruise control was mounted between me and the battery which took the brunt of the blast but still pretty scary and thought I was blind.

Mine happend while I was trying to loosen one of the terminals which were mounted on the front (rather than the top). A lot of corosion and crud made the terminal screw tight and I guess I torqued too hard on the wrench. Apparently there is a lead plate that backs the terminal (inside the battery) and broke into the cell next to the one that the terminal is in- BOOM!.

another lesson learned the hard way... fortunately my face was not permanently damamged, I need all the help I can get LOL

mphatc
08-08-2004, 05:19 PM
Brad,

You are one lucky guy!

This happened on Alex Matheson's Corsican many years back on Winni, blew the rear seat cushion and cover right out of the boat while showering the two in the front seats with battery acid . . . can we say quik dip over the side?

I recommend either an Optima or an Odyssey

I have instock bottom mount SS battery boxes for these that we use on race cars . . .
http://www.odysseybatteries.com/auto.htm#hdb

PC680MJT

Optimas are heavier.

The great advantage to these is that they hold a charge for a very long time . . very long!

Mario

gcarter
08-08-2004, 06:28 PM
WOW Mario!
Those are impressive specs, particularly the 100% discharge!!
I wasn't aware anything would do that.

Greg Maier
08-08-2004, 07:53 PM
I replaced my batteries with Optima Blue tops this year. I couldn't be happier. With the old batteries, I would have to crank for three or four seconds. With the Optimas, I crank for maybe a second before the 502 starts. Also, Eddie Marine makes some great looking boxes for the Optimas. My only issue has been a rapid clicking sound coming from the engine compartment when I am starting with the Optimas. It sounds like a solenoid firing about 5 times a second when I am cranking. Does anybody have any ideas as to what this noise is? :confused:

Ed Donnelly
08-08-2004, 08:04 PM
Sounds like an ignition switch going south. I had the same problem(ignition) but it was power to the MSD.on cranking. 1 time 12 volts, next time 4 volts...Ed

penbroke
08-08-2004, 08:13 PM
That's scarry! I think I'll check ALL my batteries tomorrow.

Do you know what actually caused this?

What was it (the battery) doing at the time? Cranking? charging? just sitting? were you working on it?


Frank :eek:

Rootsy
08-08-2004, 08:14 PM
i bought an optima blue top last spring (2003)... it sat in the shop, in the office which is heated on a block of wood... from October through April... she would not hold a charge come spring... returned it and got another... we'll see how it works come next spring... otherwise i could not be happier...

guess i should trickle during the winter eh

Cuda
08-08-2004, 08:38 PM
When I was sixteen, I was giving someone a jump. There must have been hydrogen gas building up. When I connected the cables, the battery exploded in my face. No damage, but to this day, I am very leary of connecting batteries at anytime. Btw, the battery was an old Die Hard that my dad gave to me because he bought a new one. It sure was a Die Hard because it worked for another month with two holes in the side of it.

Also when I was 17, I took my dad's 19 foot Squallking out in the gulf with a buddy of mine. We got caught in a bad thunderstorm. Rough as hell, I was skeered to death couldn't see a thing but sand coming up on the windsheild. Just as I came through Pass a Grille, the battery exploded. It had fallen over and shorted out.

bverd
08-09-2004, 11:12 AM
I am still weary of batteries at this point. Wasn't do anything out of the ordinary. It actually blew when I turned the key, blower was running.

Anyways, I am glad for the battery box it was in. The battery box and the diamond plate took the brunt of the blow. I think the battery would be in many more pieces if it wasn't for the box and I hate to think what may have happened the passengers in the backseat if the diamond plate wasn't there.

And to all of you who questioned me as to why I was putting in two batteries in my '18 and my answer was that I never wanted to be stranded somewhere after running the stereo. Well now there are 102 reasons for a dual battery setup. :shocking: :shocking: "IN CASE ONE BLOWS UP" you have one to get home on. :shocking: :shocking:

I have washed the bilge at least 20 times in the last two days. And remarkably the things that have absolutly no signs of corosion are the the powder coated and anodized pieces. The battery boxes look like they did when I installed them. (minus the bolts). The diamond plate will probably have to be replaced but that will be a winter task.

Again... just UNBELIEVABLE!!!

--Brad

P.S... I will add that I am bummed to hear of all these stories and yet I have never heard of this happening myself. I guess I need to pay attention more as I would rather learn from someone elses experience. And all my research says that though this isn't common it isn't uncommon either. Get new batteries if they are at all old. I think this one had gone thru two seasons.

bverd
08-11-2004, 09:51 AM
What I have learned in my recent conversations with Interstate batteries. I thought I would share.

Maintenance Free (MF): MF Batteries are only MF if in "ideal conditions". :rlol: No extreme heat :hyper: , no banging around (rough running) :bonk: , no external charging :eek!: , pretty much anything you don't find in our marine environment. The short of it is that had I maintained my maintenance free battery and added water to it when the level got low then I probably wouldn't have had the pleasure of one blowing up. :banghead: Below in the recommendations from Interstate, "Maintain water level properly (1/8" below vent well)"

From Interstate:
"The only batteries that do no gas are AGM and VRLA batteries and even this statement is not entirely true. They still gas but they recombine inside the case (unless due to high temperature or charge rate the pressure differential exceeds 1 or 2 pounds and then they gas through a release valve).
Wet lead acid batteries are vented to atmosphere (they are not a closed system). What makes a battery maintenance free is its gas recombination factor (if the water loss over a set period of time is low enough it is considered maintenance free). This means in the course of the battery's life under normal conditions water will not be needed. This is fine if you live in Seattle, but if you live in hotter climates, the battery is in confined/ hot spaces or the battery is over-charged itwill gas. "

This next part is a little winded from Interstate but still an informative read:

The warning placed on the exterior of the battery (i.e. Batteries expel explosive gasses. Keep sparks, flames, burning cigarettes or other ignition sources away at all times. Always wear safety goggles and a face shield when working near batteries) obviously and clearly indicates that a battery produces explosive gasses and that proper precautions should be followed when working near batteries. These instructions are designed to minimize the explosive hazard when working with or near batteries. Several factors contribute to the increase of the battery's potential to produce these explosive gas mixtures (hydrogen and oxygen).
Those include:
* electrolyte temperature
* battery age and condition
* overcharging
* failure to comply with proper battery charging and jump starting procedures lack of proper care or consideration of the external cables/connector terminals

Remember: Production of explosive gasses in the battery does not cause a battery to explode. The combination of explosive gasses and some type of spark or flame near the battery may result in an explosion.

Electrolyte Temperature

Internal battery temperature can have a dramatic effect on the battery's ability to perform to the end of its designed service life. The battery electrolyte is influenced by the surrounding air temperatures as well as the amount of input charge to the battery. Surrounding air temperature doesn't affect the battery as immediately as the charge input but can have a dramatic effect. The charge input effects on battery temperature are dependent on several variables including the: 1) amount of charge current 2) duration and 3) frequency within a given period of time. Typically, as the Battery state of charge is increased, both the battery's counter voltage and internal resistance increase thus reducing the charge current acceptance. On applications where extreme heat is encountered, the battery's ability to resist charge is greatly reduced ultimately increasing the production of gasses and water loss.

Recommendation: When a battery is operating in an environment of extended high ambient temperatures and/or continued high frequency of charging time (i.e. enclosed warehouse with high ambient temperatures for extended time periods and the frequency of use of the vehicle is such that the charging system's operating time is more on than off within a 24 hour period), it is recommended that special preventive measures be taken. These measures would include, but should not be restricted to,: reducing the voltage regulation limit, if possible, along with insuring adequate battery ventilation to reduce internal battery temperature. Battery cleanliness and maintenance of electrolyte levels should also be included.

Battery Age and Condition

An older battery or one that has aged prematurely, resulting from severe service will require more charging than a relatively new battery. This increase in charge requirement however will allow the battery temperature to rise faster, which in turn will heighten its susceptibility to gas. It is recommended that batteries used in severe service applications be examined and serviced more frequently than those in normal use. Severe service could be described as a service where the battery is cycled several times daily or where the ambient temperature and/or charge input to the battery requires an increase in the frequency of water addition or servicing.

Proper Care and Consideration

If or when the battery's external connectors are left unprotected and one or more of the conditions exist described in this article, the susceptibility of an external spark is increased. It is extremely important to utilize protectorates (i.e. sprays, brush-on) on all external connections to the battery to decrease the probabilities of an external inadequate connection and resulting spark.

Overcharging

Overcharging is a condition that normally points to the charging system voltage regulation adjustment being set too high. However, anytime the battery is being charged and that electrical charge can not be converted into usable energy, the result is an increase in internal battery temperature. Overcharging simply implies that the battery is overcharged with regard to its immediate needs. This event is typically recognized by heightened water usage as a result of increased gassing. In an environment where the ambient temperature increases, the alternator's voltage regulator normally reduces (compensates) the voltage regulation threshold. When batteries are used in extremely high ambient temperatures however, the regulator may not be able to compensate or reduce the regulation to a low enough level. This situation will typically result in an increase in gassing; case bulging; water loss; electrolyte discoloration;
reduction in overall service life and premature deterioration of the battery. The obvious indicators are; 1) the outside battery case being extremely warm or even hot to the touch during use 2) increase in the amount of water usage.

The higher gassing often results, if not checked more frequently, in lower electrolyte levels. When continued recharging occurs at the same intensity, a higher volume allows of gasses (potentially explosive mixture of hydrogen and oxygen) collect in the air space between the electrolyte level and the inside of the top case.

Summary

The likelihood of a battery exploding during normal use is very
infinitesimal. Battery manufacturers to insure that the number of battery explosions is minimized meet every available precaution. However, when a battery is utilized in a high ambient heat environment, and the voltage regulation is not reduced to a point where battery gassing/spewing is minimal, the battery is susceptible to 1) the
production of hazardous gas 2) low electrolyte levels 3)overcharge/overheat. Inadequate ventilation (in comparison to the ambient or electrolyte temperature) can be one of the factors that can accentuate battery gassing and ultimately effect water usage.


In environments where severe battery usage is typical, the battery's life expectancy and performance can be detrimentally affected, so special precautions should be taken to insure proper battery care. Loose or inadequate connections can result not only in interrupted starting problems but, as current is applied through the contacts, a tremendous amount of heat and/or sparks can be generated momentarily. Coupled with a high concentration of gasses around the battery, the potential for an explosion increases. Example: If a battery explodes during starting, this normally points to an inadequate connection that caused a momentary spark.

Several suggestions to improve battery life include:
* Visually inspect the battery often during extreme and/or extended ambient temperature conditions * Always keep the battery clean. This includes the case and connectors * Maintain water level properly (1/8" below vent well) * Never allow batteries to become warm-to-the-touch when charging.

--bverd

TuxedoPk
08-11-2004, 10:15 AM
With all that's been learned, how often should you replace your battery?

Rich
08-11-2004, 10:17 AM
bverd...
You state that the battery blew when you turned the key. Since it takes a spark or flame to cause the battery gas to explode, you may want to find the source of the spark.

MOP is right on his cleanup recommendation. I had a car accident in which the battery was crushed which sprayed acid throughout the engine compartment. While the insurance companies duked it out, the car sat. By the time the body shop got the car everything in the engine compartment was heavily corroded or eaten away. It cost the insurance company another $3,000.00 to replace it all.

bverd
08-11-2004, 10:20 AM
After having one explode I am ready to do it every year. But all kidding aside I think I am going with the 2 year rule. A normal Marine Deep Cycle (non-Optima) I will use no longer then 2 seasons. I have two new ones right now. The one that blew was on it's 3rd season. Battery two has only 1 season but I figured it was better to just start fresh after this last weekend.

Optima's I don't have any experience with so I wouldn't want to guess. Maybe someone else can add with Optima experience.

Regarding the spark, after talking to Interstate extensively the spark was most likely internal and not external because the lead plates were exposed and when I asked for a certain amount of current (remember the blower was on) by turning the key it caused an internal spark between the plates and BOOM!.

--bverd

penbroke
08-11-2004, 11:13 AM
Thanks for the update!

Frank

blackhawk
08-11-2004, 01:20 PM
Looks like I need to check my battery over. That's some scary stuff! What's even scarier is that's the exact same battery I have.

RvR
08-11-2004, 04:36 PM
Does anyone have experence with Optima Batteries?

http://www.optimabatteries.com/usingOptima/index.asp

I haven't had a chance in the 16 yet, but we use them at work for very rough off road applications because of their good vibration characteristics. Long life and sealed construction are a plus too.

Rootsy
08-11-2004, 08:50 PM
Does anyone have experence with Optima Batteries?

http://www.optimabatteries.com/usingOptima/index.asp

I haven't had a chance in the 16 yet, but we use them at work for very rough off road applications because of their good vibration characteristics. Long life and sealed construction are a plus too.

Read my earlier post....

hopefully just a fluke...

JR

gcarter
08-11-2004, 09:13 PM
I agree w/ what Brad said previously, low electrolite, hydrogen builds up, explodes internally. All lead acid batteries outgas hydrogen when charging, if full, I don't think they can explode, also too much air in your engine compartment.
The incident @ NASA was different in that the battery was in a SST box that was kept charged externally because it was so difficult to open the box. The electrolite was allowed to get low because there was a bunch of screws to remove to check the level. Hydrogen built up in the box. The box exploded w/ the battery. It was litterally a bomb.

jdsdls
08-13-2004, 01:42 PM
If you go with a OPTIMA do you have to worry about Deep Cycle versus Starting or are the fine for both.