repower or rebuild 302hm's 250volvos

[thescooter]

i own a 1970 28' bertam baron with twin 302 holman moody fords and 250 volvo drives. the boat is in good condition. but the motors and drive work but are a little tired. i plan to have the engines and drives rebuilt over the winter . my marinia told me i am wasting my time and money. they want to put in a pair of small block 350 mercs with bravo drives. i much rather keep the boat as original as possible.any ideas. i would much rather purchase from some one on the board who is repowering, there old 302hm's engines and 250 volvo drives for backups and parts, and keep what i have for the holman moody classic reasons. all ideas would be greatly appreciated . anyone with extra engines or drives please call 215 843 0313 or leave a message on the board here

thanks in advace
the scooter

[MOP]

Scooter engines that old more than likely will need new iron unless they were fresh water cooled, some of the inards may be saveable. I would get them out and pull them apart then decide what needs to be done, blocks and heads are easy to find. You can build up a pair far cheaper than swapping everything out, I would have the drives checked by a reputable Volvo shop. The drives may not need much they are very durable, I have taken apart 20+ year old drives and found them to be in really great shape, many only needing a re shim job and new seals.

Phil

[thescooter]

mop thanks for the info. i have been on vacation down the jersey shore or i would have back to you sooner. i agree with you since the boat is such a classic. i will get one of my kids to post pictures for every one to see . now all i need is some back up parts. some one here must have some extra parts. or know where i can get some. i want to do this project this winter and start on a 28 1978 cigarette i found that is the need of alot of T L C next spring or early summer. i love the classic boats my previous boat was a 1966 chris 21 super sport with a factory 427 some one liked it so i sold it for the right price.
thescooter

[mphatc]

Scooter,

I just completed rebuilding a H&M 302 . . . . . I'll try to keep this short!

Hope that your blocks are both still good!!! IF not,

you have 2 choices . . .

find a pair of old 302 blocks that can be rebuilt . . . happy hunting, or tearing apart old junk cars . . . :eek:

or find a pair of the newer Ford 5.0 roller blocks, made after 1996

In these you will need lots of new stuff as the old stuff . .ex; the nice H&M cams will not work :frown:

All the externals bolt on. Find the correct 5.0 donors and if you are lucky you'll score a pair of GT40P heads

retain your old cranks, the newer Fords are not as strong, the old unit requires some simple machining to fit.

With the correct selection of parts there lots more power in the 302s, and the Volvos can take it!

Replacing the power with other drives is huge work, KISS , ie; new transom . . . stay close to stock . . .

Mario

[thescooter]

thaks for the info. i feel my best option is having both present motors rebuilt. do i get new cams for ex.& etc.? this way i am not looking for new balacers fly wheels and other bolt ons. ( what about extra 250 drives ?)will this work ,has anybody stepped up to a 351 will my parts fit? also how much horse power can i make with my presenty 302s rebuilt 275hp with a new marine cam and how much horse power can a 250 take?then i am back to the ? what about extra 250 drives who has them andwho can rebuild them . I know i have aked a lot of questions but i have to know what i am in for before i start. the motors are presently running but everthing some time or another needs to be freshed up.

thanks again the scooter

[gcarter]

I may open a can of worms, but I don't see a problem by changing power, I mean to black.
It seems to me these boats on this board are more like Hot Rods rather than restoring, lets say an Aston Martin DB4.
Does anyone here feel the market is that fickle?
Look at some of the newer 22's we see here, shorties, blowers, Arnisen drives, you get the idea. Heck, Ted was looking for a Dodge Viper engine! :smash:
Does anyone think anyone really cares. I'm not saying this to change anyones mind, I would really like to know.
Probably if it were me and the bucks were there, I'd probably put in turbo diesels! Why not? If a Viper V-10 would fit, then so would a Cummins B or a small Cat. Let's say 800 HP total.
Wouldn't that be fun? You could have 600 to 700 HP available all the time! :) :yippie:

[MOP]

George don't get me going! ;) Those old Volvo's will outlast black any day. We have guys on this board pumping some fairly big ponies through them, many of which have not not had the drives apart in many years. I worked(mostly did not) on them for over 30 years, I felt like the Maytag man. Every shop in the world has been littered with black forever, true I actually think they are getting better. But even today will a Bravo stack up to A King Cobra(basic Volvo design) NOT! Yes I am running black but by a fluke, and wanting max performance (not speed) Only due timing I did not follow up on buying the SX Volvo that was offered in parts for sale, then I would have real drive. Even though I will not be pumping big HP through the Blackhawk it worries the crap out of me.

Guess you did get me going!

Phil

[gcarter]

Thanks for chiming in Phil.
Actually I wasn't talking about drives per se, but the perceived need to keep the boats the way they were.
I just don't see any damage being done to values unless, of course, the boat was owned by someone famous like Ed's Criterion. That fact hasn't kept Ed from trying all kinds all sorts of things instead of making it a museum piece.
Maybe I'm wrong, if so tell me so. One caveat; whatever one does, it needs to be done well! :lightning

[Ed Donnelly]

Mr. Carter; If you are refering to the twin turbo setup, that was out of my 23' Seawolf. The original engine was stored in my garage. The original engine is back in. I still have the original Bennets,carb,etc. The K-planes, dual external steering etc.were installed to make me feel safer...Ed

[gcarter]

Hi Ed;
There is no doubt your boat has tremendous provenance. That little dash plaque could make it very valuable to the right person. And it only makes sense to keep all the original pieces.
I think you prove my point exactly, you've made alterations that have increased the performance and stability, you have a lot of fun with the boat, but you can always go back to the original setup if necessary.
It would be like classic racing a Bugatti Type 57SC, wouldn't you love to have some six pot Brembo brakes instead of the original 65 year old cable operated drums?
Ed, I enjoyed reading about your adventures in that boat, and I applaud you for it. :)

[Moody Blu']

my opinion on this is keep the 250 drives in, they can handle more power then the bravo and cost alot less then new drives, transomrebuild, etc.

why not find 2 302/351w short blocks and marinize them.....why not do a 351w Ad some gt-40 steel heads and see what that donzi can do through the waves.

I figure it like this when i got my 351w., the block was magnafluxed along with the rods ETC, balanced assembly custom cam and new heads. I added some goodies to it and in it went. The motor has been goin strong for a while now, through good and bad times :umbrella:

Now if you want to use all your old parts and rebuild them go ahead. It just might be easier to pick up one thats ready to be built:shades: IMHO

[turbo2256]

If those engines havent seen much salt water use I would just check out the water jackets. Heads might be already cored with 351W ports with 7/16 bolts in them. If so I would have them ported cost would be about 600 a set if no major repairs are needed guids valves etc. With existing H&M goodies cam etc you would be looking at 100+ low RPM HP.