Polyurethane

[rayjay]

I'm refinishing an oak dressing table that we are turning into the lavatory for our master bath and I am having a hard time getting the smooth finish I want on the top. It's smooth, but not as smooth as I want it to be. Can polyurethane be sanded with 220 or finer to smooth the finish and then just left? Or does it have to have an additional coat after sanding? Can I thin the Poly with mineral spirits to get a smoother finish? I'm also concerned with resistance to water because of the sink mounted on the top.

Never really worked with polyurethane on furniture before except on a bar that didn't have to be that perfect.

Thanks,

rayjay :banghead:

[gcarter]

I've often been tempted to try an automotive clear coat for just that reason. Water resistance. Maybe a good clear sanding sealer, several coats, to get the smoothness you want. Use a D-A w/400 or so. Then spray the clear.
My $0.02. :smile:

George :wavey:

[rayjay]

Thanks.

According to the Minwax site I can thin the oil based poly with mineral spirits, so I will try that after sanding. I'm still trying to find out if not applying another coat after sanding causes problems.

rayjay

[springs]

Use West Systems Marine Epoxy.

Beautiful Finish just like a glass top.

[rayjay]

I would have used an epoxy, but the piece was an old (late teens's - mid 20's vintage) arts and crafts style and we did not know what type of stain was on it, or what had been done to it since it was new. The guys at West Marine and I talked about this. We all figured the oil based poly may not give the best and toughest finish but it would adhere to the surface even if there was any residual old fashioned oil based stain or water based finishes, or the combination thereof as it has been re-finished at least twice in its life. It looks like it was originally had an a & c style rubbed oil, then painted, and then stripped and refinished again, possibly with water based poly, before I purchased it. After cleaning and sanding I used an oil based stain to even out and brighten the coloration. I could also see the stain did not soak in the same way in different areas because of previous finishes.

Question, would the epoxy have stuck to old fashioned rubbed oil, modern water based poly, or oil based stains? I'm trying to learn about finishes as one day I will get to build my floating piece of wooden art.

rayjay

[springs]

A couple years ago my dad and I refinished 12'x6' mahogany dining table circa 1920. We finished it up with West Systems and it turned out perfect. It was an rubbed oil finish.

[RedDog]

I think oak is the limiting varible. Heavy grain that you just have to live with.

[rayjay]

A couple years ago my dad and I refinished 12'x6' mahogany dining table circa 1920. We finished it up with West Systems and it turned out perfect. It was an rubbed oil finish.

If I thought the West Systems epoxy over oil would not have given me any problems I would have used it. A good sanding and really thinning the poly with mineral spirits seems to be working. A couple of thinned out coats with sanding should do the trick.

I love oak and stains that bring out the graining. It is quarter sawed and very nice. I think it was a copy of a real arts and crafts piece, or a very late a & c manufactured piece, as it did not show signs of an amoniated finish. Plus the top had some damage in the middle, right where we installed the sink which we had one of the local potters throw for us. So I do not feel like I am ruining a piece of antiquity, but am recycling usable, and beautiful, pieces of old furniture. I love American Empire (mahogany), Michelle loves Eastlake (oak and walnut), and we both love early Victorian (walnut), Arts and Crafts (oak), and what could best be described as country Italian and French. Her brother-in-law's family has a small villa in Cortona with the ruins of an Etruscan outdoor alter on it. Since we both love Tuscan inspired rooms and architecture we have a great time going there. Plus the food ain't bad either!! Even though Tuscany is inland it seems to have a very sun drenched shore like feel that works well with being by the water in CT.

rayjay

[gcarter]

Rayjay, I don't remember the details, but the System Three Epoxy web site has their entire "how to" book posted. I think quite a bit of it is dedicated to furniture. You have to register, but it's worth it. Most comprehensive info I've seen in one place.

George :wavey:

[TuxedoPk]

Rayjay- I agree that stained oak can look great. The floors in my 1886 house are tiger cut 1/4 sawn oak. I stained them really dark.. one shade lighter than ebony.

Some of my favorite furniture and finishings were done by Greene and Greene. You're probably familiar with them if you're into Eastlake and Arts and Crafts. What style house is this going into?

Rich

[rayjay]

...Some of my favorite furniture and finishings were done by Greene and Greene. You're probably familiar with them if you're into Eastlake and Arts and Crafts. What style house is this going into? - Rich

Ah, Greene and Greene, designers of the Gamble House or the "ultimate" bungalow (lol, as if a 5000 sq' house could be called a "bungalow")). I love the a & c period not only for their craftsmanship and finishes, but because one man or one team would design the entire house from foundation to furnishings.

Unfortunately all of our pieces are now in a "raised raunch" ... er... ranch. My other half had a beautiful Victorian Painted Lady in New Haven in a fairly nice neighborhood. A few things happened down the block that made her decide to move. The good news (or the bad news) was that the house sold for the (high) asking price on the first weekend to a newly appointed Yale Professor of Architecture and his post-Doc Yale student wife. Historic tagged house that was in the Yale plan, in other words Yale would give them money to live there. They had to be in in six weeks (the bad news). So we literally had to buy the first nice house we could find, which was a raised ranch. Not always my favorite, but can be nice depending on the setting. We will ultimately build a craftsman styled portico on the front and have it stuccoed, which should help it look more like something that would be our house. We are in SE CT, where an "old" home means it was built before 1776, usually way before, and "character" (as in the house has...) means the ball dropped on the floor never stops rolling around. Michelle loves houses with character, so you should have seen some of the beauties we looked at. We'd still be working on the house ten years after moving in. Our block is all 1970's so the house fits in. And our street ends on a salt marsh with the beach a 10 - 15 minute walk. Great place for a son of a son of a son... of a sailor. I'd like to be right on the water, maybe next house. We're a bit warmer in winter and a bit cooler in summer than the areas north of Rt 95. I love it here. I can walk to the beach and there are 5 marinas within 5 miles. It reminds me of the Jersey shore in the early 60's before it became all built up.

Are you in Tuxedo Park? There are some beautiful old homes there. You must have one of them. I grew up and lived in Bergen County until my move to CT.

rayjay

[rayjay]

Rayjay, I don't remember the details, but the System Three Epoxy web site has their entire "how to" book posted. I think quite a bit of it is dedicated to furniture. You have to register, but it's worth it. Most comprehensive info I've seen in one place. - George :wavey:

Thank you George. I will register there.

rayjay

[gcarter]

Here in Central Florida, "OLD" is mid '20's. However, if you find a house that old, it's termite ridden.

George :rlol:

[TuxedoPk]

Yes, the Gamble has got to be the ultimate "bungalo". In

Tuxedo Park doesn't have "bungalos", but if you're looking for 8,000 to 27,000 sq ft "cottages"....

The first pic is mine, the other shots are some of the neighboring cottages I really like (and had photos of on hand).

[MOP]

I've often been tempted to try an automotive clear coat for just that reason. Water resistance. Maybe a good clear sanding sealer, several coats, to get the smoothness you want. Use a D-A w/400 or so. Then spray the clear.
My $0.02. :smile:

George :wavey:

George automotive clear coat does not like dampness, if I leave my magnetic signs on my vehicles the clear coat gets cloudy. On one car a few years back before I knew of the problem the paint blistered, now I wax the heck out of that area and take them off when not in use.

[rayjay]

Yes, the Gamble has got to be the ultimate "bungalo"...

It sure is!!


,,,The first pic is mine, the other shots are some of the neighboring cottages I really like (and had photos of on hand).

Nice house, actually, a very nice house. I won't let my other half see that or "we" will be starting to get ideas and look again. That's the Royal "we", she gets an idea and if it doesn't involve sewing or painting "we" (which rhymes with "me". I do it and she watches.) do it. She tries to help, but sometimes it is easier to do it by yourself. I can't complain, she works hard and can paint okay, great wall treatments but is hard to clean up after, and she sews great. She also has a real good eye for style. She is great at staging houses for sale, which is why hers sold so fast. She also puts up with me (lol).

We don't want to move from where we are as we are right in between New York City and Boston, about an hour and a half to two hours to either depending on traffic. Both have good friends and close relatives in both cities. Plus I am near the water.

Isn't that Skylands Manor in the third row? I used to live on the side of a mountain in Ringwood and rode right past there a lot. Beautiful place, went to some dinners there.

rayjay

[gcarter]

George automotive clear coat does not like dampness, if I leave my magnetic signs on my vehicles the clear coat gets cloudy. On one car a few years back before I knew of the problem the paint blistered, now I wax the heck out of that area and take them off when not in use.
You're right Phil, that happens to my pickups. However, that's different from a table with condensate from a glass sitting a few minutes.

George

[TuxedoPk]

Isn't that Skylands Manor in the third row? I
rayjay

No, but it does look like it. These are all single family homes in Tuxedo Park.

[Bob]

After you have built up a nice protective layer of polyurethane, ( 2-3 coats) try wet sanding with 400 grit wet or dry paper. Wipe dry and spray or slowly brush on a final thin coat. The importance of a quality brush and slooow strokes cannot be overlooked. Good luck!

[rayjay]

After you have built up a nice protective layer of polyurethane, ( 2-3 coats) try wet sanding with 400 grit wet or dry paper. Wipe dry and spray or slowly brush on a final thin coat. The importance of a quality brush and slooow strokes cannot be overlooked. Good luck!

This is pretty much what I am doing now. Minwax suggested thinning the poly a bit and applying 2 = 3 coats, applying each coat right after the last set up. I found that when thinned out it sets up much faster than the 3 hours on the can. You want to put the next coat on while the previous layer is still "hot" (to steal an old F/G term) so that it bonds. They said that if the wood has a lot of divots and nicks that I wanted to fill I should rub on a first coat of thinned poly, apply a coat or two of un-thinned poly, let dry, sand, and then apply 3 coats of thinned poly. If that was not as perfect as I want, then sand with 400 and apply a last very thinned coat. Always using a very good brush and "sloooow" strokes for the final coats.

They answered my original question which was whether or not you can sand poly and then leave it. Their answer was that you shouldn't sand the final coat. The skin of poly's surface is more resistant if you do not sand it, sort of like enamels. I will be finishing the top, and now re-doing the draw fronts, today.

This discussion refers to oil based poly, not water based poly. From Minwax, water based poly, or paint, is not very resistant to dampness and should not be used where it comes into constant contact with water or is in a continuously damp environment like a bathroom. Learn something new every day!

rayjay