22 Classic BBC Questions...

[dclassic]

Hello all! I am searching for a 1996-2002 22 Classic with BBC Bravo power. I was wondering what thoughts yall have on the different BBC versions. Would yall have any major preference from a carbed 454 (310)to carbed 454 mag (365) to either MPI versions or one of the 502 MPI motors? How would each different motor affect resale, performance, durability, etc. Would you let the motor preferance dictate the purchase of one boat over another moreso than the hull condition or colors, etc.

I am a little torn as the 2 boats I am most interested in based on hull condition and color have carbed 454 std and a mag, but I have also located a sweet 502 MPI version, but I don't care for the hull colors as much. What to do? Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

[Dr. Dan]

:smash: Buy the 502 MPI....it is a Stock Package that will give you low 70's out of the Box....it is also more friendly to future mods and its making 415 Horse Stock.....with Bolt Ons it can grow from there....I ran with one up in Lake George...and it was a Beautiful Classic.....(Colors can be changed....just ask Pearson) next is the 496 HO at 425 Horse...and it offers Fresh water cooling....this series motor is the new generation....of the old main stay 454.....and they run very well.....below that you will be into the Stock 454 Mags which were 385 Horse....again a great motor....and alot if not most guys here are running that power....

I had the 454 with only 330 Horse in our '93 Classic and it ran out very strong....now I fed it some wheaties and screwed up the whole space & time continuium? :smash:

Good Luck...This is the Fun Part!

Doc

[TuxedoPk]

Colors can be changed....just ask Pearson)
Doc

Since when is a blue pill a paint job? :)

[rayjay]

... Would yall have any major preference from a carbed 454 (310)to carbed 454 mag (365) to either MPI versions or one of the 502 MPI motors? ...

Unless you already have an engine or want to start on an engine project I'd follow Doc's advice and go for one's with the most power stock. If you can I'd stay away from the base 310's and 330's. Basically there is nothing inherently wrong with them as engines and in the right boat they will have a long and serviceable life. But the 22 is a fairly heavy (for its size) boat requiring a good amount of horsepower to get moving. So you will be using a lot of the power and rpm's the base engines are capable of quite often. Now here's where the problems with the base engines show up. They usually were two bolt main blocks with cast cranks (I've heard of some 330's having forged cranks, but have never seen one), plus use really mild (anemic) cams and intake. They were not designed or built for long time high rpm high load running. When it's time to rebuild or, in most Donzi owners' cases, just "hanker for some more ponies" you will have to replace a lot of the parts. Just ask Doc. Doc didn't just add some Wheaties to his boat, he put in a while new bowl to hold them. (LOL)

A 502 MPI, 496 HO, or any of the Mag's will probably drive the boat as fast as you want to go for now and with good maintenance it will do it for quite a long time. Plus just add a shorty drive and / or a blower with some prop and drive work and you will be right up there with some of the fastest and best running 22's around here.

That's just my $.02. I am sure there are a lot of 22 Classic owners out there with 330's and 310's who use and enjoy their boats very much. As someone once told me, a slow boat on the water sure beats a fast boat on the trailer if you're having fun. And P.S.: mine's still on the trailer!!....

rayjay

[dclassic]

What are the main differences between the magnums and standard motors? What all is forged or rollerized, etc? Do all the Magnum series whether carbed or MPI feature the same internal components?

FYI the motor in my first choice boat is a 454 mag carbed with stainless marine exhaust. Runs 72 on GPS. I think that should be sufficient performance. Any thoughts?

[rayjay]

What are the main differences between the magnums and standard motors? What all is forged or rollerized, etc? Do all the Magnum series whether carbed or MPI feature the same internal components?

FYI the motor in my first choice boat is a 454 mag carbed with stainless marine exhaust. Runs 72 on GPS. I think that should be sufficient performance. Any thoughts?

Always hull condition over engine. If you think an engine is expensive in time and money to rebuild, wait till you see how much it takes to re-do a bad hull. If it was me, I would go for the 502 MPI and figure out what to do about the color afterward. (LOL) But that's me.

What year Mag? Only the base 330 and 310 engines used cast cranks. They were price point engines, built to fill a certain cost niche for the boating industry. The 365 Magnum has a forged crank. The year will tell if it has a "roller" cam. Magnums are like the HO or performance engines available in cars. More compression, more aggressive cams, and (hopefully) stronger heavier duty components.

The engines in boats, especially high performance boats, are like truck engines in that they are almost always under load. A good "forged" crank is stronger and better able to stand up to the twisting forces from constantly being under load. That is why "forged" cranks are used in most real (heavy duty) trucks. A "roller cam" refers to roller tappets or lifters as opposed to flat tappets or lifters. A roller cam allows more aggressive ramp rates than a flat tappet, in other words the valve can be opened quicker. This means a roller cam with the same duration and lift as a flat tappet will flow more air by getting the valve off the seat quicker. Or a roller cam can flow the same amount of air with less duration and / or use greater lifts without generating the same valve train problems a flat tappet cam with the same lift would cause. This means a roller cam can be designed to run good down low like a mild flat tappet cam yet make good horsepower up top like a more radical flat tappet cam. One of the big reasons car manufacturers went to roller cams is that they are more reliable and yet can produce more horsepower.

rayjay

[dclassic]

Thanks RayJay. That helps. The motors in question are a 1996 454 Mag carb with Stainless Marine Exhaust, a 1999 454 std carbed stock, and a 1999 502 Mag MPI stock. The '96 with the carbed 454 mag is my first choice based on the hull and exceptional cleanliness of the boat. Would that motor have roller cam as well as roller rockers? Thanks again to all.

[rayjay]

Almost certainly the '96 Mag has a roller cam, but that needs to be verified by the engine number. It could be either a Gen V block, which would have a roller cam as a Magnum version, or possibly a Gen VI block which would definitely have roller cams. This is a transition period and I do not know what Gen series engines Mercruiser had onhand at the time. There are some early Gen V blocks that were not set-up for roller cams and I am not sure if this effects the Mercruiser Magnum engines. If you buy this boat please verify engine number and whether it is a Gen V or VI block as there are differences in parts between the two. The '99's should both be Gen VI's and have roller cams, but I am not sure what engine you mean by "454 std carbed stock" and whether or not it has a forged crank. Although I am reasonably familiar with BBC's and engines in general I am still learning about "Mercruiser" engines. Some of the base Gen VI engines from GM do not use forged cranks. I think there are other members here who would be far more knowledgeable as to what the "std" engine for '99 was and what is inside of it.

None of the engines you mention should have roller rockers unless they were retro-fitted by the previous owner.

As an aside to my "forged" vs "cast" crank statement I can tell you I think a well set-up "good" cast crank works okay on the street when asked to stand up to under 650 - 675 hp and is kept under 6000 rpms, and possibly 6500 with long rods and light pistons. I even have a friend with a cast cranked BBC in his Suburban that has over 150K of towing on it. But he owns one of the balancing shops we used and you (or even I) could not justify or possibly even afford the amount of work he put into indexing, balancing, and finishing that crank plus massaging the rods and pistons. It was for himself. I've done the same thing with some of my stuff. I've modified parts that I already had because my work is free to me, yet I would never justify to a customer spending that much for me to do the same thing when they could go out and buy something that would work as well (or even better) for less than paying for my time. But when my friends rebuilt engines for wreckers, tow vehicles, work trucks, and boats they always used well set-up high quality forged cranks as they found that their customers (and us) had less problems in the long term.

rayjay