PDA

View Full Version : 1987 Z-33



gtex
07-10-2004, 05:58 PM
:wavey: I'm looking at an 87 Z-33. It has twin 454 Mags, with low hours on the engines and the drives. I sure like the lines of that year and model.

Are there particular issues I should look for with this boat? Any other advice appreciated.

kk89z33
07-10-2004, 08:54 PM
There were issues with the stringers up front. Look for gel cracks down where the stringers attach on the outside bottom of the boat. Look close at the area directly below the two port holes. The damage will be between the port holes. Donzi brought a lot of boats back for this repair. The cracks were repaired and the floor of the cuddy was beefed up. In addition, the areas under the refrigerator and head were filled with foam and glassed in. If the repairs were done, the boat was really solid.
Very nice boats...Built with the best of everything.. Hope this helps. Kurt

Trueser
07-10-2004, 09:24 PM
Also check directly behind the fuel tank on the center stringer. That is where i found our damage there was a small crack under the board where all the trim motors are mounted. once I removed the board I could stick my finger in the stringer. The side stringers looked real good and seem solid but if you run a drill into them they were soft.

All are fixable and hopefully soon.

gtex
07-10-2004, 10:33 PM
I'll hopefully go look at it this week. NADA says the boat weighs 5800lbs with the twin 454s. Does that sound right? It has a tri axle aluminum trailer. The owner thought the combo weighed near 9400lbs. That seems heavy for the aluminum trailer, no?


If you guys have any pictures of the areas of concern, that would be greatly apprciated!

thanks again. Im sure if this goes through, I'll be back with many questions.

Fish boy
07-10-2004, 11:45 PM
Donzi brought a lot of boats back for this repair. The cracks were repaired and the floor of the cuddy was beefed up.
Kurt

????? When did all of this occur? What is your info based on??? Just curious.

Fish

slick
07-10-2004, 11:49 PM
Your right Gtex, this Donzi has great lines and is set-up with good motors for that year. If the boat looks like the One and your getting attached, be careful. Hire a professional Marine Surveyor to carefully check the stringers in this boat for you. It could be just fine however, I fell hard for a 87 Z33 several years ago, it was Red and looked great but, the Surveyor reported that the stringers were soft and rotten and recommended not to buy that one. Good Luck but be carefull. :biggrin.:

kk89z33
07-11-2004, 04:51 AM
FISH BOY, I bought a new Z-33 in 1990. I had met a guy who was a Donzi rep who told me (warned) about the stringer issue. About a year after I bought the boat, I started to notice the cracks in the gel at the bow/stringer area. I called Donzi, They sent a tractor and trailer and picked up the boat. I took a weeks vacation and went to see the boat, and what they did to fix it. They were great to deal with and did a super job!!! The boat was better than new when they were done. The guy who fixed the boat, said the modification would make the hull indestructible... The area where the stringers start up front, were beefed up with additional glass and all the cavities were filled with foam and capped with wood. They also glassed the cockpit liner to the stringers and hull sides. I have to say the boat was much more solid after the modification. I am sure it was not cheap for them to do this!!! Class operation, in my opinion.. Kurt

Trueser
07-11-2004, 07:44 AM
Kurt,
Was this problem only on the Z33's or did it effect the Z29's?

What and where can I look on the inside? Should I pull the fridge? I dont remember seeing any foam filled in any of the cavities.

Thanks
Mike

kk89z33
07-11-2004, 10:56 AM
Mike, I don't know if 29's were involved?? On 33's look close at the cuddy floor carpet to see if the flat (floor) was cut and replaced. Also you can stick your hand in the crack behind the two cuddy seats, feeling for a void under the board that the seat is on. The board that the seat is screwed to, rests on the stringers. If it is open under this board, the modification was not done. All under the sink/seat area would be filled with foam and covered with marine plywood and glassed. Same with the head side. They cut the floor carpet and foamed the floor area too. There is a panel that can be removed to access the front bilge pump on a 89 Z, you can remove it and see if the stringer cavities are glassed in. I don't know if the 87's were the same. The floor of the cockpit was lower on 87"s...Kurt

Donzigo
07-11-2004, 11:20 AM
I have a 1989 Z-33, which in fact, did have a cuddy floor that went bad. I replaced it and no other problems have occurred. Remember tha OMC bought Donzi in June, 1988, (I think), and they instantly changed things. Some problems might have occurred from OMC's beginnings; but, I have been really impressed at the quality of the boats during the Genth era.

A marine surveyor is recommended for those not familiar with a model year or manufacturer. A boat builder can have issues related to certain years. I bought a 1990 Proline only to find out that the company & workers were going through a giant labor battle and many boats were not built correctly. I complete rebuilt the stringers on that boat..........what a nightmare. I did the survey on my Z-33, when I bought it. Took me all day; and, yes, I found things; but, I accepted them. Stringer issues are the most expensive to repair & might take extensive dis-assembly to fix them.

The Z-33 is slow, by today's standards, it goes an honest 60MPH with 454 powerplants. (That's precisely what dick Genth wanted, too). You should not expect more, unless you modify it. but, it's very comfortable, cruises at 3,600 rpm / about 40MPH or so, all day, and has loads of eye-appeal. The weight is 8,000 lbs dry weight. A three axle aluminuim tralier works just fine. I would recommend that two of the axles surge brakes.

Best of luck.

Fish boy
07-11-2004, 12:57 PM
Any purchase should involve a survey- no question. Especially if it is a 15 year old boat.

Kurt,
Donzigo is correct, yours is a donzi built by OMC, the question is about a Donzi built in 1987- a period in which Donzi was under private ownership. These boats were built differently.

Several changes were instituted when Dick Genth actualy took the helm of Donzi (during the OMC years). One of the biggest was the use of a choppergun to lay up glass. in 1987, the glass was laid by hand. There can be a lot of differences between the two depending on how skilled the chopper-gun glass guy is. If not done well, they are heavier and not as strong as the hand laid glass, but are considerable more cost effective. Perhaps donzi was settleing into the use of chopper gun when your was built. I beleive donzi used the chopper gun well when they built boats with it, but perhaps there was a learning curve that created some problems in a few boats.

I spoke with two people this morning (independently) who were actually at Donzi in 1987. Each was unaware of the "brought a lot of boats back for this repair" you mentioned, and thought your information source was incredibly misguided to put it politely. Not trying to bust your balls, just letting you know that perhaps you should not beleive everything you hear- it has gotten me before too :)

Additionally, I posted this in an earlier thread but it is worth repeating. The designer of the boat was a guy named Don Westerman who is one of the most respected designers over the last 30 years. He designed boats for welcraft, donzi, chris craft, tierra,...etc you name it, he probably designed it or someone else copied some of his work in their own design. I spoke with him shortly before he died earlier this year and in our conversation, he told me that the Donzi z-33 is the best boat he ever designed. It was a very general statement and I am sure there are things about later designes that he liked better or would have done differently on the 33, but if he wanted his name associated with one boat it would have been the 33 donzi. That is one hell of a stamp of approval.

I have a 1987 z-33 in a high and dry. No structural pbms what-so-ever! Additionally, I have a 1987 donzi 23' built by the same folks with the same methods. I have taken it across the atlantic to the bahamas (extremely rough) and had it in the no-name storm. I jump everything that has a rolling wave and no structural or stringer problems. I firmly beleive I will be sayin gthe same thing about it 15 years from now too.

fish

PS not trying to stirr up the hand laid vs chopper gun debate, I would be pleased and proud to own either.

kk89z33
07-11-2004, 07:05 PM
Fish boy, I am sure my J/88 built z-33 was not chopper. I think the Ragazza boats were. I saw a lot of the inside of the hull over the 14 years and never saw any chopper glass in the hull. I don't remember any chopper in my boat in the deck either. My source was a guy who was a sales rep for Donzi up to about 89. I can only assume the issue was also in the pre OMC years. In fact, the guy at Donzi who was the manager for the repairs told me they had done many of these before mine. How many is many??? Mine was hull #172. OMC couldn't have pulled too many hulls by the time mine was built. I understood 89 was when OMC started to take over. I have studied these boats, the changes really started in 1990. Windshields, deck hatches, and later the gauges were changed.
I don't mean for a minute that this issue was much to keep anyone from thinking Donzi was not one of the finest built boats built... I thought so, thats why I bought my Z-33. I do not know for sure the 87's were involved, I am just trying to help a guy with info I have...

gtex
07-11-2004, 09:39 PM
all the discussion is appreciated. I will probably get a surveyor to look at it. I've owned one boat, an 18ft Sea Ray. So, I don't know what to look for in 33 feet of fiberglass.

jdsdls
07-12-2004, 07:09 AM
Fishboy I had a n 1986 Z-21 300hp Tempest Called Blue Thunder that Donzi took back. The Stringers had completely delaminated from the hull. It took a lawyer and several surveys but they stood behind there product.

Fish boy
07-17-2004, 12:07 AM
Sorry it took me a little while to get back, I have been out of town.

Jdsdls,
I am aware of some of the issues with the 21 and this is a completely different story. I actually know the real story behind some of the problems with the 21- at least the early production ones. The 33 ( as well as the rest of the line built at the time)is completely different story. I am very sorry to hear of your difficulties. I will send you a PM with my phone number if you would like to know additional details.

KK89z33,
the guy who handled the boats that went out the door AND the ones that came back to DOnzi is a registry member named Budmann; he is one of the people I called when this post came up and the other was the person that owned the company prior to the OMC days. According to both of them, Donzi did not take a bunch of boats back during the pre-OMC days nor did they have issues with the 33 due to stringer or hull integrity problems. I do not know any other way to tell you this. I am sure you posted trying to be helpful based on information you believed to be correct- unfortunately, it is not correct and I do not want a series of boats to get a rep they do not deserve. My information is first hand, not based on what some guy" told me.

However, with regard to the Ragazza line, you are correct. The Ragazza was the first to be built with the chopper, but not the only one to get the gun as control was being turned over to OMC. Donzi was sold on Oct 31, 1988, but the transfer of control and procedures began several months before.

The 33 is a beautiful and solid boat. Although I cannot speak for the post 88 boat construction from first hand knowledge, I can tell you that my 87' 33 is rock solid, and Donzigo's 33 is a boat that anyone would drool over.

gtex,
be smart, get the survey, it is a 15 year old boat. If you like it the price is right and the sea-trial makes you happy, buy it, it is a fantastic boat.

Respectfully,

Fish

gtex
07-17-2004, 08:47 AM
Thanks for the info. I've yet to go see the boat. The seller is playing phone tag now and he may have sold it to a "Friend".

kk89z33
07-17-2004, 09:00 AM
Fish boy
I agree, the Z-33 is one of the best built/looking boats I have seen. That is why I bought a new one. I spent many years as a service rep for Ford Motor Co, and can tell you even the best products do have problems. The issue I had with my 1989 Z-33 was handled by Donzi in a way that made me feel they were " The Best". I kept all my notes on this issue and found my original note. According to a Donzi employee at the time, the issue was with the first 180 or so built Z-33's. My source (I won't mention names) told me about 50 boats came back to be reinforced and a some got new hulls. This issue has been talked about before!!! I have seen this issue mentioned in this forum a while back (not by me). Keep in mind the issue was fine cracks in the gel coat, most people may not notice them at all. It was caused by the bottom flexing "oil canning". If mine had the issue, I'm sure others did too.. Issues like this happen all the time in this business. What makes a company great is the way they handle these issues. Donzi made me feel good about my purchase. I think they were the best at that time, even with the OMC issues. Many people do not like OMC. I had OMC engines and Drives, they gave me 13 years of trouble free service..

Fish boy
07-17-2004, 09:40 AM
My source was a guy who was a sales rep for Donzi up to about 89.


I had met a guy who was a Donzi rep who told me (warned) about the stringer issue.


According to a Donzi employee at the time, the issue was with the first 180 or so built Z-33's. My source (I won't mention names)

Kurt,
Was he an employee? Was he a sales rep? What is his/her name? If he/she was at donzi in the pre-OMC years, I am sure I will know him or her. I think oyu mentioned your source was there until 89, and you bought yours in 90- was he working for a competitor when he told you what he did? Just curious, especially when your "source" has provided you with information that is dipolar to the information provided by the person who owned the comany at the time AND also the person who had to deal with all boats that came back from 1985-1989 (Budmann).

Guess we will have to just to agree to disagree. You have your "source" and I have first hand knowledge as well as 2 pretty credible sources; the opinions about the 33 are very different. Again, I cannot speak for the boats that were built by OMC or under the transition to OMC, but this is becoming a dead horse anyway.

Glad they were professional with the repair you had and that you were pleased with your boat. I am officially resiging from this thread, it is giving me a headache.

Fish