Prop help

[metraman]

I presently have a 25p Quicksilver on my 22' Classic there is a Mirage 27p up for sale $225.00 Does anyone have any experience's? Turbo has a new 27p around $300.00 Thanks

[boldts]

Metra,

I didn't get in on your last post because it seemed that everyone else had pretty much covered the bases. Since you mention a 27" Mirage, I have to tell you how the Mirage prop worked on the 22 I used to own.

My 22 had a 454MAG carb engine in front of a Bravo1 with 1.36:1 gear ratio. Prior to my purchase, the boat had a supercharged engine and thus the reason for the gear change in the Bravo1. (Most have a 1.50:1 gear when used with a V8) Boat came with a 23" Mirage (Not the Mirage +)

The first summer of ownership the boat would porpose at every speed except wide open no matter what trim position I used or weight in the boat. I had more experienced drivers run the boat and they experienced the same running attitude that I had experienced. In essence, the boat was a real handful and really not that much fun to drive alone or with family along.

Through the AOTH gatherings, I've met some wonderful Registry members from GA who told me to try a Turbo 1 on the boat. I used a prop calculator to plug in the numbers I had and I used 10% slip in the calculation. In my case, I was only turning 4500 with the Mirage 23" and getting 65 on GPS. I figured I would start with a 23" Turbo 1 since the Turbo 1 has a smaller diameter and that would also increase engine RPMs.

I received the 23" and tested it with just me and less than 1/2 a tank of fuel in the boat. Boat still only turned 4600 RPMs, but the speed increased to 67 on GPS. Most important thing about the prop's performance was that the porposing was gone! Didn't matter what speed or what trim I used when running. The boat became a real joy to drive now. The next logical step for me was to try a 22" Turbo 1 on the boat. Prop arrived and I tested using as close to the 1st test with the 23" factors. Wow! Boat gained another mph and was turning 4800 which was right at the low end of the engines RPM range. I later tried a 21" and while the engine turned over 5000 RPMs, the speed actually fell off a little. So, the Turbo 1 22" was my prop of choice from that momment on.

Not only did I gain 3 mph and 300 more RPMs, I lost the porposing, and the boat was rock solid in all types of water. RickR runs a Mirage + in ocean water. I live on inland lakes and only went up to Erie a couple times a year so buying an offshore prop didn't make sense to me. The Hydromotive Quad IV is another prop used by many running in ruff waters at high speeds. Again, I just didn't see the need because I was running under 70 mph on inland lakes. Another aspect about the Turbo 1 is that while you can have it labbed, the way it comes straight out of the box is all most boaters need. Again, it's all about what your after in your boats performance. I didn't see the logic in buying a Mirage + and then sending it to a prop shop to be labbed at an additional cost.

I do not work for Precision Propellers, but sure am glad someone took the time to tell me about this prop. It dollar for dollar was the best performance item I ever had the opportunity to add to my 22 Classic and I don't hesitate to let other 22 Classic owners running from the factory equipment know about my experience with the prop. The guys from GA are running Turbo props on their 22 Classics and working for Honda marine, they've had an opportunity to try every prop made. They didn't steer me wrong and if I have the opportunity to oneday own another 22 Classic, you won't find a Mirage on that boat then.

[DoTheMath]

Scott~


Where did you buy your Turbo Prop from? I have an '04 18 Classic with a 350 Mag / Bravo and am thinking about putting on a Turbo. The boat is a second boat and used on a lake, I am running a 23" Mirage Plus right now and am wondering if the Turbo would be better?

Thanks!

[metraman]

Thanks Scott
The people at Turbo suggested a 27 lightning, Dan at the prop shop said he had sold a few of the Turbo 1 models and had good feed back. Mine sure has a porpoise problem

[boldts]

Dothemath,

Did a search on the internet and best price I found was Dan's Performance Propellers in Michigan. I really haven't heard to much from the 16 and 18 Classic owners as to how the Turbo 1 works on those models. I had the Volvo 250 on my 18 so I never tried a Turbo before the 22. I rode in a 75 mph 18 Classic at AOTH running the Hydromotive 4 blade and I was amazed how rock solid that Classic was. I'd be interested in your results whether good or not so good. All I know, Ranman runs a Mirage + on his 18 and that Classic runs very well for a stock set-up. I'm also not sure if he has a Bravo1 or Alpha drive. The Bravo1 may be a bit heavier?

Metra,

The gentlemen who came to our gathering last year from Precision put a Lightning on my boat to try. On my boat, I found it to act very much like the Mirage that came with my boat. At the slower speeds and cruising speeds, the porposing was back. I also found the boat to be very loose if the trim was moved out or up from all the way down or in. The prop was also slower than the 22" Turbo 1 I was then running (65 GPS). I didn't get a chance to run a Turbo 2 + 2 on mine, but I've heard from others that it works pretty well also. For speed though, the Turbo 1 is the prop from Precision Propellers on a stock 22 Classic. Like I said, the 500 HP guys like the Hydromotive Quad IV for the speeds their running. How-ever, and I only mention this as food for thought. Big Griz who owns a 22' Criterion with a ProCharged Big Block Chevy and TRS drive runs the Turbo 1 prop I believe. I also know that Slick from KY put a Turbo 1 on his ProCharged 22 Classic at this year's AOTH. So, the prop seems to be an option for the Hypo folks also.

OK, now to really throw a mix into all this prop stuff. The last thing I did to my Classic was add a Hydromotive Nose Cone to my Bravo1. At about the same cost as the Turbo 1, I gained 1 more mph now topping out at 69.8 GPS with my 1.36:1 gear. Was hoping for 70, but just a bit short. On a trip to the Ohio River and flooding conditions with a lot of debri in the river, I put the Mirage back on the boat cause I didn't want to damage my Turbo 1. With the nose cone, the prop did not make the boat porpose anymore. I was pleasantly surprised. How-ever, the Turbo 1 was still faster. Although that down current factor did push the boat over 70 mph. ;) What was real cool about running the nose cone was the additional trim I could also run with the prop not cavitating. I believe it was because of this added trim that I gained the mph. So now you're thinking, hummmm put a Hydromotive nose cone on and keep the Mirage or buy the Turbo 1? Like I said, the Turbo 1 was the fastest of the two props with the cone and with-out the cone. Nothing against other makers of nose cones, but in my research, I was told not to put a pointed cone like you see on race applications. Apparently, when you trim a pointed cone out, you cause the transom to be pulled down thus slowing the boat. The Hydromotive is a wedge type cone with only one purpose. To allow cleaner water to get to the prop. All I know, is it worked on my Classic.

[DoTheMath]

Scott~


Wow, that was a lot of info - but then again I am a firm believer that you can't have too much. I have heard that the Hydro. Q IV is a good choice as well. Do you know if the guy that has the 75 mph 18 is running a stock motor set up? I am curious as to what I can expect out of this hull and when I might be "pushing it". I am excited as hell to get it in the water this Saturday and run it through it's paces.

Thanks for the info!

[boldts]

Sorry guys! I get long winded most of the time.

DTM, That 75 mph 18 has quite a few goodies stuffed into it. The engine is not a stock piece and he's running an Alpha SS behind it. The SS drive raises the prop to be a more surface piercing piece compared to the Bravo1 or regular Alpha. A number of members here have the SS on their 16 Classics and I've seen one used on a 22 Classic before. Speed increases using the SS have ranged in the 8 mph plus range.

A lot of the 22 Classic owners are putting Imco shorties on the Bravo1 drive and changing to the XR I believe gears in the top gear set. A shortie on your 18 with the Bravo1 should net a very nice speed increase. Of course with added speed, most of the time comes a much looser running boat. The Quad IV gives the boat that stability back.

Have a great time this weekend running and learning your new 18' Classic. Once you run her, you'll know if you want to make the boat faster or if you need to settle her down a bit for the family. Since your up in Boston, you should try to come to the Dust-off gathering on Lake George, NY this weekend. There is a guy named George Desmond (Geo on the Registry) who owns a Donzi X-18. He is capable of speeds over 100 mph in that Donzi. He's running a lot of special pieces like an Arneson drive, but it sure is a site to see!

[DoTheMath]

Scott~


No apologies - great info, thank you! :smile: I ran the boat this past weekend and it was a windy one at that. We had a good brisk wind blowing all day today, so I got to see what the boat was like in a pretty decent chop, (it rocked!) I can confidently say that it met or exceeded my expectations, all around. The one area that I would like to tweak is the prop, I feel that this could make a big improvement in the way this boat rides. I find that in most all water conditions the boat has a porpoise, it can be taken out with trim / tab but I would like to hope it could be taken out with a prop change. I have tested Turbo 1 props on similar boats (18' - 350 mag - 24 deg. bottom) and it really improved the boats over all performance. I basically want to plant the tail a bit and bring up the bow to ride a bit higher, the few things that it doesn't do currently. Aside from that, at somewhere in the mid 60's today in about a 1 - 1.5 foot chop it was fast, solid and a blast to drive. At about 40 mph, I played with some tab / trim combinations and tried to find that sweet spot in the ride, I was close but ran out of time and water (did it on my ride home from a friends house). The boat has serious potential and I can't imagine what the other side of 70 would feel like in this boat, but hope to find out.

Any idea what I should expect going from a Mirage + to a Turbo 1, not sure what each props respective traits are. Thanks again for the feeback, I appreciate it.

-Mark-

[metraman]

Just came up from the lake and 26P turbo lightning won't come up on plane. When it does [1/2 mile] and all the tab I have it sure does not feel like the 25P quicksilver I took off. It came up to 5000 RPM maybe more but I ran out of lake. Did not have a lot of time tonight I have dinner plans. The boat 22' Classic starts off fine then the prop just slips.Seem like a lot of my porpising is gone.Something sure does not seem right any help would be great.
Thanks

[RonZi]

Just a bit new to this V8 I/O stuff. 1978 18 classic with 350 and a 330 TRS. Has a 23p that does 55@5200. A little high,huh? Nice hole shots and good stability..Would like some input on a new prop. Anything would be helpful at this time before I break it.

[catch 22]

Ronzi, You finally made it. Welcome to the board. This is Jim we met last month at Lake Osborne. How's the boat doing? You will find a world of information on the site. E-mail me and we will go boating one day. :wavey: