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View Full Version : Mercruiser/Water in cylinder bores



JW1111
06-02-2004, 10:10 PM
Hello. I have a Donzi LX 275 with a Mercruiser 484. The boat is 6 years old with 150 hrs. Last year my engine started experiencing water in the cylinder bores. My engine locked up on me , and the mechanic discovered the water in the cylinder bores. The heads and manifolds were checked and were ok. The water was thought to be intoduced into the cylinder bores from back splash, according to the mechanic. However, the promblem reoccured this year, and it is not clear how the water got back in there again, a second time.
The local marine recommended putting 3" riser extensions on my engine. My bill is around $4000 including diagnostics and everything else. Does this sound unreasonable? Has anyone else experiences similar problems with there Mercruiser/Donzi?

Thank You. John

TuxedoPk
06-03-2004, 01:05 AM
My bill is around $4000 including diagnostics and everything else. Does this sound unreasonable?



What was done for $4000?

JW1111
06-03-2004, 08:59 AM
I will get a report today. They replaced the riser with 3 inch extensions. The dealer said the engine is too low in the boat.


The flappers were ok but when I had to stop quickley is where the water intrusion accured.

Cuda
06-03-2004, 09:07 AM
Was the bill 4k just for installing the risers, or did they have to do any engine work?

MOP
06-03-2004, 10:34 AM
Was to tired to get into this one last night, obviously you had water backing into the engine which locked it up hence $4,000 Worth of parts and labor. I feel you have an issue with both the boat builder and the marina that preformed the work. The marina by not making sure that the problem was in fact corrected and taking you $$$, the problem reoccurred so obviously they did not fix it. That you should be able to handle in small claims court. The boat builder to verify they followed the OEM guidelines for the installation, you may have some recourse there also. An example over the last few years Mercury had to replace from what I have found out all the engines in the 3470 model of Cruiser Inc. boats. Cruises did an approved the OEM install (therefore of the hook) and the engines sucked water, the fix was not only the complete new engine packages but also higher risers and water lift mufflers. You need to do some real home work with the engine manufacturer the builder and all the general state and fed complaint agencies. You will be surprised how much ammunition you can gather then get an attorney, don't spend a ton extra for the attorney to get the ammunition for you. Flappers can allow water in, when your engine is not running as the exhaust go under water from wave action not directed at the transom the flaps can and do get pushed open by the rush of water coming up the transom. Flappers do a excellent job of any water hitting them from behind the boat. You are far from an isolated incident, I have seen this happen many times over the years. You will have to work at it but should come out in the end.

GKricheldorf
06-03-2004, 10:46 AM
Was a compression check and a leak down test performed? Maybe your timing chain is off a few teeth allowing the valves to open and close at the wrong times. Thus allowing water into the cylinder. If the engine is to low the problem would have shown up long time ago.

Pismo
06-03-2004, 01:06 PM
I had a similar problem but my water was entering from above through the intake system. Rainwater was dripping slowly into the carb, the top of the flame arrestor acted like a funnel. If fresh water, just pull the spark plugs, turn it over to squirt the water out, let it dry out put the plugs back in and start it up. If it is there long enough it will leak into the crankcase and then you need to change the oil a few times. An engine full of fresh water is an EASY fix and not a big deal as long as it is not there too long/fixed promptly. The repairman will tell you otherwise and try to charge a bundle for a 20 minute repair job because it 'sounds' like a big deal. The source of the water must be found and corrected quickly of course.
If it happens again before you fix the root problem, fix it yourself.

Cheers
SL

JW1111
06-03-2004, 04:44 PM
The invoice was $4500.00. They replaced my water pump also. They sent the manifold and heads in for inspection. They checked out OK.

My engine compartment is water tight and I also have complete canvas to cover the boat.

The color of the oil was OK.

We are hoping the problem is fixsd by installing 3 inch
risers.

We have completed two sea trials with good results.

I have sent copies of the invoices to Donzi and hoping they will reinburse me.

Between last season and this season the cost is $5800.00 for the water intrusion problem.

Cuda
06-03-2004, 05:12 PM
That invoice is too high in my opinion. What is there hourly shop charge?

marcdups
06-03-2004, 05:52 PM
I am with Cuda on this, invoice is way too steep, a reman long block would justify that kind of money, would be interesting to see the invoice, how did the risers look?? they are first to go, so original risers may be the problem still, but even if they changed them, they are only @ $$150 a pop. :eek!: :eek!:

Cuda
06-03-2004, 06:31 PM
That's what I'm saying. Say risers, $300, waterpump $125, $150 for the head and manifold check (even though there's no way I'd pay that much),that leaves $3925.00 for labor! At the $55 an hour my mechanic charges me, that's over 71 hours! I don't begrudge a guy making a profit, but I just don't want him to make it ALL on me.

Cuda
06-03-2004, 06:32 PM
Do you have a copy of the invoice you can scan?

gold-n-rod
06-04-2004, 06:42 AM
The invoice was $4500.00. They replaced my water pump also. They sent the manifold and heads in for inspection. They checked out OK.

My engine compartment is water tight and I also have complete canvas to cover the boat.

The color of the oil was OK.

We are hoping the problem is fixsd by installing 3 inch
risers.

We have completed two sea trials with good results.

I have sent copies of the invoices to Donzi and hoping they will reinburse me.

Between last season and this season the cost is $5800.00 for the water intrusion problem.

Do you mind posting the name of the shop that gave you this hosing? I boat in that area and want to be sure to avoid them at all costs.

another Randy

JW1111
06-04-2004, 06:56 AM
I would rather not say who the marina was.

I am not sure about scaning the invoice. I know I will get a typed one shortly (Week or so) I will try to scan it when I get it.

JW

BUIZILLA
06-04-2004, 07:48 AM
I may be way out of line here.... but *I* don't think scanning this invoice, on a public forum, is proper etiquette.

Just my .02

J :sombrero:

txtaz
06-04-2004, 07:53 AM
I agree with everyone else, you are getting taken. I got taken once on an outdrive repair, then I got smart and started asking around for a good shop. I would suggest the same.
Wes

Cuda
06-04-2004, 08:04 AM
I may be way out of line here.... but *I* don't think scanning this invoice, on a public forum, is proper etiquette.

Just my .02

J :sombrero:

I don't see a problem with scanning an invoice. I'm curious as to how they justified that bill.

Rootsy
06-04-2004, 09:48 AM
Let me see if i have some things covered here...

1. They removed the cylinder heads and checked them? magnaflux? complete disassembly? etc? no head gasket leaks or warpage? and THEN reassembled the complete top end of the motor? well i bet that there's at LEAST a grand or more right there... in labor and parts...

2. diagnostics? which included? well a lot of things i am sure.. and i bet there were a few hours spent doing that also.

3. Risers checked? pressure checked? individually or as an assembly? gaskets can and do corrode and leak. bet there are a few hours spent there also.

Not to rain on a parade but the last time i saw a marina charge $55/hour for service was well.. not since i've been around... hell in the early 90's when i worked for a large marina in SE michigan as a mechanic the service rate was above $60/hr... that was with 2 merc & omc certified mechanics on staff...

if you look at the hours at say 70 - 80 / hr it adds up bloody fast... tracking down ghosts like this can eat a bunch of time up also... i can speak from experience, i've been there and i've been the one doing the work... i once spent 25 hours of a week tracking down electrical ghosts in a 35 cafe racer... talk about a nightmare... the owner wasn't too happy but hey... that is what it took...

the mechanic will log his hours spent on a project and the management will charge their hourly rate for those logged hours plus parts...

we all know what BOAT stands for...

JR - not trying to be a party pooper...

GKricheldorf
06-04-2004, 10:07 AM
Most of the shops out here in California are in the $80/hr range. That is the main reason i did my re-power myself. Most shops told me to expect a $4000 labor bill on top of $4500 - $4800 for a new motor.

Cuda
06-04-2004, 06:00 PM
I paid $55 last week.