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MOP
06-02-2004, 08:52 AM
A good to remember when installing any item that will have sea water (fresh or salt) flowing through it is to make sure it has a good physical electrical ground to the engine. This is especially true of coolers that do not have a zinc anode and aluminum manifolds. If left completely floating ie: no contact any item can die an early death from electrolysis, the use of a S/S star washer under at least one fastener usually does the trick. The surface should be clean and bright, well tightened then touched up with paint. This has been an issue in salt forever, but now as many of us know that have attended fresh water events the problem is catching up. Most everyone That I have spoken to over the past few years has seen pitting of the drive paint in some fresh water locations, the worst being the Great Lakes and St Lawrence river. A good that I do and should be done by others that trailer is to very lightly sand or wire brush zincs before launching, I use a small S/S wire brush the size of a tooth brush. The slight smoky look is corrosion and does reduce the effectiveness of the anode.

Ranman
06-02-2004, 11:10 AM
Phil,

I have to appreciate your attention to detail along with your maintenance habits, but I have to ask, do you ever make it on the freaking water? It sounds like you spend sooo much time trying to keep things perfect that you never would have time to enjoy anything. I worry that you spend 3 hours at the ramp prior to launch.

I think people need to find a balance point somewhere in between the cost (time and $$$) associated with trying to maintain something to perfection vs. the cost associated with never maintaining anything. I worry that you spend so much time being anal that you never truly get to enjoy anything.

There is a certain freedom in simply "letting it go" and not getting caught up in the minutia.

I'm not saying you should never try to maintain anything ever, it just seems you are on the extreme edge. Maybe it's therapy for you or something.

Anyway, I always enjoy the tidbits of info, just be sure to stop and smell the roses now and then. :biggrin: :biggrin:

MOP
06-02-2004, 11:19 AM
Randy I do not get much time being WET, I work 7 days a week almost all year long. The 16 when I sold it had 76 hours on it over a 4 year period. My new project is going ever so slow mostly due to time, parts and weather. Most of my posts I put up during breaks from work even a lot of the late ones, almost wish I was back on the wrench's at times at least I had week ends off which now are almost non existent. Brightness over the horizon, I am thinking of semi-retiring end of next year. Collecting SS and cutting my Biz way back. I need play time been at this end of the game 18 years now and it does suck!

Phil

Ranman
06-02-2004, 12:22 PM
Like I said, I enjoy the posts, but there's no way I could be so thorough. Frankly, I'm not sure I'd want to be. Good luck with the project.

txtaz
06-02-2004, 03:36 PM
Just my .02,
When I work I have no time to play. When I don't have work, I'm a little anal about the boat, BUT use it every chance I get. I'd be out today if I didn't have a cold from over doing it over Memorial weekend.
I have to say Phil has VERY good knowledge and Randy makes some great letters. To each their own.
Now I'm off to clean the bilge with a cold. How weird is that?
Wes

rayjay
06-02-2004, 03:43 PM
...but there's no way I could be so thorough. Frankly, I'm not sure I'd want to be. Good luck with the project.

Randy, People like Phil learned it from the old school as well as by actually doing it. My Dad was a builder from the old school whose idea of temporary was 99 years, and permanent meant exactly that. I think he has taught me well, as have some of my own experiences when I thought I knew better. I've learned that taking the time to do it properly when building something, for example an engine or a house, and then taking the time to properly maintain it is almost always time well spent. It almost always takes more time and money to fix whatever arises from lack of proper preparation and / or maintenance than the proper preparation and maintenance would have taken to begin with.

rayjay

harbormaster
06-02-2004, 04:00 PM
Randy, Tell us about the kevlar underwear again....

ChromeGorilla
06-02-2004, 04:04 PM
There is a certain freedom in simply "letting it go" and not getting caught up in the minutia.




Ahhh...minutia...what a fantastic word.....I love that word. Dunno why, but I do.

MOP
06-02-2004, 04:53 PM
Ahhh...minutia...what a fantastic word.....I love that word. Dunno why, but I do.

minutia A new one and I like it too! When I was on the wrenches my clients would say look it over and do just do it, and never questioned me being (minutia) very frigging Anal. I had about 250 boats most of which were Greek fisherman, all they wanted was a Go situation if No Go they were crabby buggers. I kept them going and when they did have a problem they always came to me I loved it, the Greek men are the worlds best tippers. I ran that place for quite a few years and it truly was like family everyone knew my BD and one hell of a did not get home party was had every year. Damn I do miss that part and weekends off, maybe I will slack off a little sooner and try to have some fun. Done for now need to do some more bottom sanding!

Phil the old Fart!

Ranman
06-02-2004, 05:15 PM
I think I'm not making my point clearly. There is a saying I enjoy and an explanation that goes with it. Taken from a book "Leadership 101" by John C. Maxwell

"Dont spend $1.00's worth of time on a $.10 decision."

John goes on to say: I try to invest the appropriate amount of time and mental energy into every decision I make. Visualize a scale: on one side is the weight of how much the decision will cost. On the other, how much it will benefit. Balance each decision's potential benefit with it's actual cost.

Another example I can think of comes from my machine shop days. Over a summer of working in my father's machine shop, I watched the foreman hire and fire two machine painters.

The first to get the ax was faster than hell. This guy could turn the work out quicker than anyone I saw before. He'd have the machine taped and sprayed in no time... and it showed. The workmanship was shoddy, there was overspray everywhere and the machine simply didn't look good. A few needed to be completely redone and even after that there were several customer complaints about the machine's appearance. It's easy to see why this painter was fired.

The next guy was a fantastic painter. His taping was impeccable, the finish perfect and I had never seen one of my father's machines look so good. This guy would fill any dents or imperfections sand the whole thing and spray with pride and confidence. The end result could be closer compared to a show car instead of an industrial machine.

If you're wondering why he was fired, it's because the job was too good and he spent too much time than was necessary increasing the cost of the job to a point where it became uncompetitive. There was no value in a six thousand dollar paint job on a factory machine. All this extra effort made no difference to the customer. The painter was sucking the profit right out of the job. Sure the paint looked great and the prep was perfect, but it was too much for too little.

I guess my point is you have to be cogniscient of the "value" of everything you do. There's no value in shoddy work, but on the flip side of that, there might be no value in over doing it either. One might build everything to last 99 years, but where's the value in that if you only use it for 10. There's surely an extra cost to make it last that long. Is it always worth it?

My last thought surrounds people like Phil, i.e. the meticulous. I love you guys because of the great deals you bring. If I were in the market for a 66 Fastback Mustang, I could take a couple of routes. First I could buy one and restore it to perfection at an astronomical cost. Another option would be to find one that's already restored to perfection. Which route do you think would have more value to me in the buyer's perspective. The key is to be able to spot the difference between meticulous and everything else.

ToonaFish
06-02-2004, 06:02 PM
So, let me get this straight.

Phil has a little hair issue and Randy is advising him to use a cheap electrolysist?

:biggrin.:

txtaz
06-02-2004, 06:42 PM
Randy,
For me there is a difference between work and play. I optimize work things, for play..I choose things I love and treat it like everything I love. VERY WELL... When I was a kid, I burned out a Dremel polishing aluminum wheels for an RC car just to make it shine. I guess the point is, not everything needs to be optimized. The letters you made are great. Does it matter if it took 3 hours or 30 hours? It's the end result that matters. If you want to take more time to do it, then do it. I don't know how many times I just wasted time to play with something because it was new to me or just because I wanted to.
Hell, I'm changing the oil in the Donzi every 10 hours. Could it be because it needs to be flushed or because I like playing with it.
Who cares....Just error on the side safety.
My $.05
Wes

MOP
06-02-2004, 07:34 PM
Toona you are the BEST!

That being said, ME meticulous "Not" just try to do things as best I can to start with. Much of what I do is hand me down ideas from old buggers like and 20+ years of factory tech schools. Do I remember it all or do I get it right all the time? Surely ye jest! but I try like blazes. More of my initial point was protecting your stuff, oil coolers, manifolds many of which are quite expensive need steps should be taken to get the max life out of them. When they fail the result can very likely be engine damage. Insuring good electrical contact takes very little time.

MOP

Ranman
06-02-2004, 09:22 PM
SOrry to get off topic and no disrespect to you Phil. :smile:

mattyboy
06-02-2004, 10:02 PM
all right did I miss it?? :rolleyes: did the tip on the unwanted hair pass underneath my chiny chin chin ???? :eek:

Matty
wax on wax off Danielson :rolleyes:

Morgan's Cloud
06-03-2004, 01:55 PM
This is fun ,

It reminds me of one of my favourite sayings ...

'How come I never have enough time to do the job right the first time but I always seem to find the time to come back and fix it ?'

My parents grew up in VERY hard times and consequently there was no sitting around for us as kids. We had to do everything around the house and don't think for a minute that we could mess the job up deliberately so we would never get asked to do it again. We were made to do it over and over untill it was right.
That's how I do things now as do my brothers... it's also reflected in the items we choose to purchase.

Besides were'nt Donzis originally intended for people who had little tolerance for things that were'nt done right the first time ?

My .02c

S

Murphy
06-05-2004, 10:46 PM
Phil may sound anal, but his advice is seldom wrong. I've probably got 4 grand in a high performance drive and prop. I was shocked that 4-days of sitting at dockside in the St. Lawrence gave me micro pits in both the prop and drive. Had I gotten Phil's advice prior to launch I could have avoided this problem. You gotta understand that for some of us being anal is part of the fun whether it's about Donzis, BMW's, Taylor Guitars, houses, cigars, or you name it. When I'm in the project zone (restoration, overhaul, upgrade, etc) I'm in heaven man... The main purpose of this site is to share ideas. I'd say the majority of people here are looking for ideas and advice, not just chit chat. Rock on Phil.


Murph

MOP
06-06-2004, 10:02 AM
Thanks Rob thats what I feel the board is all about, I play duck and let it roll off. I got a PM and several E-Mails about this post that damn near made pee my pants. One was so pointed I was tempted to post it, so tempted that I had to delete it before the "Devil Made Me Do It!" I get a lot mail on things guys are having trouble with and surely do not mind, but in reality their questions should be posted to get all the good ideas. It seems many are reluctant to post but instead mail others for advice, that robs the board and its members. This board is one of the very best I hope we can keep it a place of good Q&A, each and everyone of us haves questions and need answers. I myself have been super happy with the input from guys that really know there stuff, we all know there are some of the finest minds in many fields up here.

RedDog
06-06-2004, 08:43 PM
I had time to kill this weekend - couldn't take the boat out. So I tried the wire brush. I couldn't believe how much oxidation came off the zincs. They are bright and shiny now and I guess in better shape for protection.

Thanks for the tip