Donzi building update..(Radiant heat pictures)

[Scott Pearson]

Its slow going, but here it is. Cathy and I laid out almost 2000 feet of radiant heat tubing for the garage. I lost count of all the zip ties! 6" floor will be poured next Saturday. 4000psi with fibermesh.

My back is killing me! And my fingers!


(NJ)Scott
LGDCC

[Fish boy]

Gotta say... that is sooo freakin cool!!!! I have serious boat house envy right now :)

[Fish boy]

Hmm, I could do that, but install cold lines to cool the garage... :)

Now that it think of it, I have a similar cooling system...

[Air 22]

Looks like a warm place come Mid-January....just need a few cold ones and a couple of coconut palms.... :biggrin:

awsome dude... :p

[Scott Pearson]

We will be using front discharge cement trucks. With a shoot extention we will be fine. Pump truck wont work. Its too high. As far as the fibermesh goes...I have never seen lumps in it. They mix this stuff in transit from the plant. The plant is only about 15-20 min. away.

Believe it or not this stuff is pretty tuff. You can beat it with a hammer it it still wont crack. Its an Oxygan barrier cross-linked polyethylene tubing.


(NJ)Scott
LGDCC

[McGary911]

Lookin good scott. All, I've seen this garage, and its just crazy in a good way. It may be bigger than my condo!

Still staining? ;)

[JimG205]

Lookin real good scott! How many manifolds and valves are you using? The Donzi Museum nears completion! Good luck,Jim :cistineb:

[mattyboy]

u guys R worried about cement????

dare r more cement contractors in Joisey den dare r fish in de ocean, or exits on da parkway, That floor will look like glass!!!

friggin AAAAAA Bubbba
looking good



Matty

[farmer tx]

Nice job Scott. Looks like you did your homework. Tieing the poly is a real time consuming job. Polly and I put approx. 2300' in our 3750 sq. ft. shop, best time and money we ever spent ( except for buying the 22c). Winterize a boat? What is that?
Go to the shop in the middle of winter in your shorts and t-shirt. If I set my thermostat any higher than 54 degree the heat gain is so high it's almost to warm to work.
Now you can tell Jack Frost to kiss your a$$.

[Dr. Dan]

:smash: Looks Great Scott.....I have used both the Radiant Heat Systems and I have done many jobs with the Fiber Mesh...it is exremely durable....used alot in higher likely hood of Differential Settlement and unpredictable soil conditions.

A little wierd looking at the little Fibers sticking out...I can't wait to see the finished product....Radiant Heat is awesome...its surprising you don't see alot more of it...residentailly. In the last 10 years it has really started to gain more acceptence in Residential applications....very efficient.

More Pics when ya get em.... :bighug:

Doc :cool:

[Audiofn]

Radient Heat is the greatest invention ever. We unfortunatly have to redue it in our house this year. I want it to be up higher in the slab as back when it was installed it was down low and takes for ever to react to temperature changes. It was also done in coper pipe and I have been told that I am on barrowed time. Just make sure you make a good diagram of were all the tubes are just in case you need to mount something to the floor :D:D

Jon

[Scott Pearson]

The manufacture of the tubing wants it at the bottom of the slab. I will have 6 inches to heat up but it will be more even they say. It will take 3-4 days to get to temperature and then I will just keep it that way all the time.

As far as a diagram of the floor. I did lay out where the lift will be and that's about it. I really don't plan on anything else in the slab. Also if I do I will be good to at least 4 inches or so.


(NJ)Scott
LGDCC

[gcarter]

This is one of those interesting regional things, I was thinking the other day that if I added another garage bay, it would be insulated very well and include a heat pump to COOL it! I was just outside sanding with a pneumatic D-A and the humidity is so high the paper keeps getting wet from the sander exhaust, in spite of a drier. I would LOVE to have a nice, cool, dry garage! :mad:

George
Your building looks GREAT!

[smoothie]

Lookin good Pearson,Is that just standard plastic under the mesh or something that goes with the system? and it looks like Matty pissed on one of your block when it was going up :biggrin.: :wavey:

[Scott Pearson]

Thats just standard masons plastic. Nothing special. Matty better not be taking leaks on my blocks..... :wink:


(NJ)Scott
LGDCC

[Ed Donnelly]

I installed a 6 zone Wirsbo for a friend of mine, last fall, and we added water wetter to the glycol for faster heat transfer. Dropped the return temp another 8 degrees F. Great system and cost effective too. I bet you just can't wait till the snow blows, so you can enjoy your new Donzi rebuild factory...Ed

[farmer tx]

gcarter, I have a friend down the road that pumps well water through his during the summer, it drops the air temp in the shop about 12 degree.

[farmer tx]

Scott, Watch out for the glycol, some boiler manufacturer's will not warranty their product if it is used.

[Formula Jr]

Scott,
What type and brand of thermostats are you using?
I put hydronic radiant heating in my house, but the thermostats are
the regular non-range types. This lets them cycle the electric boiler too often. I have heard that there are ranging types of thermostats, yet I can't seem to locate a supplier. By "ranging" I mean a stat that you set a high end and a low end. Something I can set to say 75 on the high to shut off the boiler and 68 to turn it on again. I used the little round Honeywells in three zones. First time I got my electric bill, it shocked me. Used the woodstove all last winter instead.

[Formula Jr]

Oh, and one more question. What was the R value of the insulation you put between the slabs? I did R 5, One inch Formular 250 pink board. The secondary slab was something called gypcrete and then I used cork tiles to even out the heating.

[Dr. Dan]

:spongebob Owen........You want a "Programmable T Stat" readily available virtually anywhere HVAC Equipt is sold(even Lowes or Depot)....these allow you to program a range of Temps to allow for heating and or cooling to make your system more efficient and effective. Most come with a small key pad to enter your data.
Gypcrete is actually a Gypsum based product used primarily for floor leveling and it also offers insulation (both sound and R Value)value, fire retardant qualities very similar to poured drywall in effect,very common in multi level housing applications and in Commercial apps to level out rough slabs or uneven substrate.... I used it in the last large development I built in Boulder....its actually pretty cool stuff. :cool!:

Doc

[Scott Pearson]

I will be using glycol in the system but Im not sure of the boiler manufacturer's warranty as far as that goes.

The building calls for a 141,000 BTU boiler but I came across a larger one from a friend who switched over to gas and only used the one he is giving me for about 2 years. Its 182,000 BTU's I might have to change the nozel and Im sure it will cycle more...but hay....its free and like new.

Owen,
I didnt use any type of insulation under the tubing. I looked into and researched this point that you bring up and found it only would give you up to a %10 savings if everything worked the way it should. I was a little scared putting foam under the slab. If it ever started to brake down it would be a nightmeir. I did put 10 inches of stone under the plastic.
The slab will be one 6" pour. Not 2 pours.

Also what was interesting , if the tubes sit in water under the slab the boiler will never be able to keep up. The water will rob all the heat being produced.


Not sure what thermostat will be used. You brought up a good point. I will have to ask my plumber friend.


(NJ)Scott
LGDCC

[Greg K]

Your basic on/off thermostats don't work well for high mass type floors like concrete slabs because they respond too slowly to be controlled well. Proportional controls work better in controlling these types of systems by air or water temp.
Three way control valves used for mixing or diverting are used when controlled by water temp.
If controlled by air temp, using a modulating valve to cycle 10 or more times an hour to inject water into the loop. The thermostat is set to control this over time.
One more thing to add is a outdoor reset control. This changes the system temperature based on the outdoor temp, only heating the water to a certain temp based on outdoor conditions.
:banghead:

[mattyboy]

and it looks like Matty pissed on one of your block when it was going up :biggrin.: :wavey:

Please,
what kind of heathon do you take me for! I would never piss on my friends garage,
friends like Scott deserve a big ole stanley steamer in the attic!!!! ;) :tongue: :eek::rlol:

Matty

[smoothie]

Ya mean like the kind that sticks to your face :eek: :biggrin:

[Ed Donnelly]

Don't bother changing all the orifaces out. Just drop your manifold pressure 1" W/C My pool is rated for a 200,000 B.T.U. boiler, but I got a 450,000 for free. Dropped my gas pressure from 4 1/2 " to 3". Inlet 90 F.outlet 120F.....Ed

[Formula Jr]

:umbrella: Thanks Doc! I'll look into those. Thats the funny thing about building a house. You can finish it, yet then it takes years to work out all the bugs. Compounded if you do it yourself for the first time. :)

:boat: Scott, at least make sure there is some insulation between the floating slab and the stemwall footings. Also, I made a big mistake with lighting my garage. I installed commercial grade low temp starting Florecient fixtures. These will always start in the winter, but they humm and buzz horribly like a gas station canopy. So much so that I'm going to have to replace them all with non-commercial grade quieter ballasts. I can't work in here with the lights on for more than an hour with out cranking up the music to mask the drone.

[Scott Pearson]

Owen,
Yes we will be putting insulation between the slab and outside walls and footings.

Great info on the quick starts! I was planning on using them. Are they really that loud? Dont know what to use now.

By the way....The pour will be put off for a week or so. My mason friend dosent have enuff help this weekend to do the pour. Its almost 50 yards....I dont blame him.


(NJ)Scott
LGDCC