Before you sell that old computer........

[Formula Jr]

I'm always amazed at what personal information is left on used machines. I've bought a lot over the years since I very hard on computers and tend to break them. And I'm just surprized now at how much information you can find if you know where to look. Most people must think that if you just erase the obvious files or if you uninstall an application that there isn't much for anyone to find later. I bought a used 386 SX with Windows 3.1 once just as a type writer/word processor. You wouldn't believe what was still on it. Or what was still on the machine I'm using now running Win 98. I wonder if the guy I bought it from, and I cautioned him about leaving anything on it before he sold it, knew that I'd run across all his old internet mail, faxes, web site preferences, instillation logs, checking and savings accounts and tax returns for the past six years or that it was full of auto start popups to porn sites and in place, active cookies that would recognize this machine to all his private accounts set for autolog user/password memory.
A friend recently gave me an older mac to play with instead of giving it to Goodwill. She said she had cleaned it out. I played with it last night and in ten minutes I had her Credit Card Number, SS number, and alot more information then I'd ever want out there to a stranger.

Moral of the story is, if you're going to donate or sell a machine, either deep reformat, re-sector, the hard drive a couple times or yank the HD out and shoot it. Particularly if there's partitions, just yank it and shoot the damn thing. HDs are cheap and Linux is free.

[Digger]

good info there Owen, I will remember that!

[Walt. H.]

Formula Jr,


I can shoot it, burn and smash it ( :uzi: :angryfire :smash: )
but how do you "deep reformat, re-sector, it"?

I have a old one to get rid of and my wife wanted to donate it to our local high school district computer lab or throw it out. But I was afraid of doing either because I don't know what info is still available to be accessed by a stranger.

How do I really destroy all memory?

Thanks, :checkered

Walt :wavey:

[TuxedoPk]

Owen is correct that disk drives should be purged prior to disposal or donation. Simply erasing a file is not enough because file deletions don't actually delete a file, they simply change a the byte to indicate the file as 'deleted' (That's how undelete programs can help you when you do it accidentally)

Being from the east coast, we're not big on taking things out and shooting them... Unless it involves a drive by shooting -- and hard drives are getting smaller and smaller :)

On the other hand, if you've been running Win98 on your Internet connected computer, your information is probably already 'shared' :(

[MOP]

I know exactly what Owen is talking about, I am a Curb Junkie! If it looks good one has to take it home, for quite a few years I would take curb stuff clean it up and give it to those that needed, church's, local hand out houses etc. Reformatting even several times is fine for the home owner types, but given to a data recovery firm they can retrieve just about the whole drive. The best is still a good shot with a Ball Peen Hammer! We have very little if any privacy, how often have you just looked at a web page and the gotten several promo mails from them. I have a few techy Buds that say even with a Dumb Box doing the routing a firewall and packet sniffer sites still send them mail. I run a few things to try to keep bugs and snoops out but will find a dialer planted on a fairly regular basis. 13 year old kids have penetrated some very secure sites. I for one will never use a credit card on the net, I find the phone number and call in orders. I have had two close friends beat up real bad both lost several thousand dollars and now do not use the net for transactions.

Phil

[Walt. H.]

Promo mail for sure Phil. I clicked on the "Gas Buddy site" and my computer was taken over by explorer web pages with a gerzillion adds that I couldn't stop! Dam I hate having that happen.

But anyway where I live upstate NY, I can blast the hell out of an old unit :uzi: :computer: :splat: but then there's a ton of plastic and tin to clean up. :toiletpap So how do I perform those functions mentioned to remove the personal info stuff electronically?

Walt :wavey:

[MOP]

Yeah I know about Gasbuddy just found out, was poking around and my firewall went bonkers, Its fine to get the prices but don't go anywhere else. Need to amend Gasbuddy post!

[Formula Jr]

Its a bit involved with Win '98 and is better described here than I could.

http://www.cyberwalker.net/faqs/how-tos/reformat-reinstall-win98.shtml

This assumes you have a floppy drive and a Win '98 CD set.

But I still never donated or sold any of my old computers with the original HD. This goes for personal Floppies also if you're thinking of erasing them and parting with them. Unless they are reformated. Just erasing them simply makes a small change in the directorys and the first sector/track addresses. Everything else is still there.

[Formula Jr]

Here, i did the google search for you.

http://www.larrysworld.com/articles/sjm_drivedump.htm

[Fish boy]

Here is my basic understanding in simple terms of file delete/erasing from your drive:

Picture a big file cabinet in your office. Now picture wanting to store a picture of your donzi in the cabinet so you can find it again. You take a manilla file and write "donzi picture" on the top tab of the file and stick it in your file cabinet. This is similar to saving a file on your hard drive (file cabinet) named donzi picture (file).

when you delete the picture, you do not destroy it, it is more like opening your file cabinet, taking a pair of scissors, and cuttint off the tab on the file that says "donzi picture". The file is still there, but when you open your cabinet, you are no longer distracted by a file that you no longer want since the tab is cut off.

Shredder applications, even ones that claim NSA level file shredding, are only pretty good. There are law enforcement agencines as well as private individuals/firms that if someone has the desire and/or the resources, can recover shredded info from your drive.

The fact that it can happen does not mean that it will and most people will never have anyone spend the time or money to try to recover shredded info off your drive. However, since drive prices are so cheap, if you have any concerns, replace your drive before getting rid of the computer, or just remove it and let the next party replace it- I am sure they will understand.

[TuxedoPk]

Shredder applications, even ones that claim NSA level file shredding, are only pretty good. There are law enforcement agencines as well as private individuals/firms that if someone has the desire and/or the resources, can recover shredded info from your drive.


Two years ago I had the opportunity to spend time with the technology crimes unit of the NJ State Police who are charged with data recovery for production as evidence. (Unfortunately 80% of their time is spent dealing with child porn and abuse issues rather than pursuing other forms of computer crime)

They have the tools and ability to often recover scrubbed data. The reason that this can take place is that 'multiple layers of data' for lack of better term can be held by a single spot of magnetic media.

The standard for secure data destruction as defined in the Certified Information Systems Security Professional (CISSP) is overwriting the enitre media 7 times.

*What I find interesting about the properties of magnetic media to hold multiple layers of information is that no company has exploited this feature to provide increased disk capacity. It certainly would be nice to gain a 5x increase in storage off our existing drives!

[Formula Jr]

Thank you TuxedoPk and Fish Boy, for helping make my point. I don't like the idea of physically destoying perfectly good HDs, that have capacities well beyond what I thought they could do. But when you look at the reality of it, 186GB drives are 89 bucks. I would rather eat the 89, give or sell a better machine, and have nothing to care about down the road. So I'm an advocate of physically destroying the hard drive.

[Walt. H.]

Thank you all for the info and help!

Since i've been told all my life that i'm too mechanical, I have no other alternative but to take the old computer apart like a primitive cave man then :uzi: it and shred it! followed by :smash:- ing it! :rlol:

Walt :wavey:

[pmreed]

In most desktops, you can pull the hard drive in 10 or 15 minutes even if you've never done it before. :) Then :smash: it.

Phil

[harbormaster]

There is a product called Evidence eliminator.

It writes to all sectors of the hard drive and erases it a whole lot of times. It is what I use.

[Boat_Mon]

http://www.paragon-gmbh.com/n_dw.htm

I've even sent drives out for 3rd party recovery efforts with no success after this has been used...

use at your own peril.....