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View Full Version : what are pros&cons of vdrive,in/out board,outboard



BLK DOG
05-03-2004, 06:20 PM
seeking advice everybody has their own taste I know,but how does technology play into things.

MOP
05-03-2004, 07:02 PM
You will many opinions but having worked a lot on some and little on some others, here is my tilt! Trying to keep it fair with close size, weight and HP, say an 18C with 250hp as a base.

V drive, very dependable, a bit slower than an out drive. To many a V drive has a bit of mystique. They are still very popular with the OEM crowd for saving space while insuring better reliability than I/O.

Outdrives, Some very dependable, Volvo topping the list the rest following in varying order! Most other drives last less than 1/2 the time of a Volvo, all faster then a V drive.

Out board, the fastest of the bunch, less weight, more complicated, expensive by comparison, most getting more reliable.

And then there is the Arneson that tops them all in speed and rivals the V drive for being trouble free! Very reliable and the unchallenged master of speed.

All late model engines are getting more complicated inboard or outboard.

Phil

gcarter
05-03-2004, 07:42 PM
Some of the newer integrated Vee drives can REALLY save space and weight, no more separate Vee drive gearbox.
Arneson Drives, an adaptation of Albert Hickman's Sea Sled from the 20's, have always been somewhat less maneuverable than other drives. The Arnison type drive is by far the best of this breed of surface piercing drives.
My $0.01.5 (US....not Canadian).

George

BLK DOG
05-03-2004, 08:06 PM
do arenson drives have reverse

MOP
05-03-2004, 08:13 PM
A drives use a hydraulic transmission similar to the V drives.

MOP
05-03-2004, 08:16 PM
Addition to last post! Actually there is one model that uses a paddle Eh George! :rolleyes:

BLK DOG
05-03-2004, 08:29 PM
i followed Georges project with great interest,and envy for being such a gear head,that transom job took some nerve and skill plus alittle blind faith I suppose

Jamesbon
05-03-2004, 09:45 PM
I can't see why anyone wouldn't have a surface drive. Faster, cheaper, stronger and yes, they have reverse. (if you have an internal transmission, such as Borg Warner Velvet drive/72c)

In my book, it's a no brainer....

gcarter
05-03-2004, 10:19 PM
I like them too Nathan, and I think they are about the most efficient drive available. BUT...you do give up some low speed, tight maneuvering ability, they make the boat substantially longer, and some people think to get the most performance out of them you must use VERY expensive Swiss made Rolla propellors.

This is another 1 1/2 cents.

George

Dr. Dan
05-04-2004, 05:31 AM
:cool: OK ...question....Nate did you change your X on your Combo for the Arneson or did you leave it alone? I have all of the Center of Gravity drawings and Sketches...but I was curious over thhe standard outdrive layout....

Did ya go higher,lower or about the same dimension? :puke:

Still tossing this around....for Phase II, but hoping for some Naval Architect to actually work all this out first...on his!!!! :yes:

Doc :cool:

MOP
05-04-2004, 06:09 AM
Dan if you use Riks extension box the X is not disturbed, it covers over the area and provides all the hydraulic attaching points. When you get closer to step II I have a lot of info you can borrow most of which George was kind enough to pass on, also some tech stuff off the net. Some of what I gathered was from an alumni of CDMA's, I would have a mix master hanging off the back if things had gone differently this winter, the BH was just an easy way out for now. I have not given up on the idea and in some ways feel it has given me more time to sort out some ideas.

Phil

Jamesbon
05-05-2004, 06:46 PM
Dr. Dan, Since I have pulled the original small block, sealed the transom and will use a BBC in the new set-up, I really don't know whether or not my X will have changed. Like M.O.P said, with the Arneson extension box/Bravo conversion, your X will stay the same. In relation to crank shaft output.

gcarter, I couldn't give you a good answer in regard to the low speed, handling thing. Enen if it did have negative effects, it's my feeling that the other inherent benefits would outweigh the negatives.

As far as props, I'm told one can now use the newest "Bravo" props with the flow torque hub. Also, Merc. solid shaft outboard props fit as well. I will most likely will start with a 4 blade cleaver from a Merc. #VI Seedmaster....19 spline.

Cuda
05-05-2004, 07:57 PM
I really don't know how much low speed maneuverablity I give up with the surface drives, but it's worth it! :)

After all, I yet to buy a boat for it's low speed handling.

Jamesbon
05-05-2004, 09:27 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA WELL SAID, CUDA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm with ya 1000%!!!!!!!!!! Your picture will help the rest understand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

gcarter
05-05-2004, 10:12 PM
What can I say?
I'm just an old fart! :biggrin:
Besides, remember that information is only worth 1 1/2 cents!

George

FlatRacer, aka BarrelBack
05-05-2004, 10:25 PM
V drive, very dependable, a bit slower than an out drive.

Phil, I beg to differ. Given the same hull and power, in most cases, a V-drive will produce more speed than a stern drive due to the decreased drag of the slimmer profile underwater gear.
That is unless the hull design is not so compatible with the V-drive setup, for example the 18' Donzi. In this case, the V-drive version suffers because hull is bow heavy (this is not a criticism as these boats are intentionally laid up heavy to cope with ocean conditions and are "built to last") and rides wet as compared to the stern drive version which benefits from the trimability of the outdrive.
The only setup that has less gear in the water than a V-drive is a surface drive.

As to the pros and cons of each setup (IMHO), here goes:

Direct Drive Pro: simple, bulletproof
Direct Drive Con: places engine near middle of hull, difficult to dock, exposed to underwater hazards

V-drive Pro: handles tons of HP :lightning , places engine near stern, lots of overdrive and underdrive gear ratios available.
V-drive Cons: can be expensive (usually paired up with adjustable cavitation plate assy.), difficult to dock, exposed to underwater hazards

Stern Drive Pro: trimable for bow lift, tilts up for beaching, easier to maneuver around marinas, allows for manly inboard sound! :incredibl
Stern Drive Con: lots of whirring parts that don't handle a lot of HP with longevity.

Jet Pump Pro: maneuverable, trimable, safe for swimmers, can run in shallow water without damage, manly inboard sound :incredibl
Jet Pump Con: inefficient (aka SLOW :rolleyes: )

Surface Drive Pros: very efficient, fast :lightning , few moving parts, ain't got nuthin' you don't need in the water!
Surface Drive Cons: big hairy child chopper of a prop just waitin' ta gut somebody :shark:

Outboard Pro: maneuverable, trimable, tiltable, easier to replace engine, quiet.
Outboard Con: looks like an eggbeater, or at first glance, some barrel-chested guy skiing waay too close to the back of your boat, quiet

Like I said, this is just IMHO :cistineb:

FR :checkered

Scott Pearson
05-06-2004, 05:11 AM
Scott,
Ones a bench seat......there always faster :rolleyes: . Its that COOL factor setting in....LOL :p There faster even on the docks!


(NJ)Scott
LGDCC

MOP
05-06-2004, 07:23 AM
Flatracer that was why I picked an 18C as a base, way back I had a plywood 16 foot SK had a divorced V drive was running a 283 punched to 301 dry stacks and an Esky cam. No clue how fast but my cheeks flapped like hell a WOT. Had a bud with a 409 worked in another 18 foot flat bottom similar design with an Eaton, I know he had more HP but he could not catch me. With V bottoms it is a whole different story, I would like to have a Donzi with a V drive just because it is COOL!

Phil

Fish boy
05-06-2004, 08:04 AM
OB pro- rebuild is cheaper and all things being equal, not as frequent... mine is not equal :frown: . WIth setback brackets can move your CG. Easy to adjust engine height on the fly in relation to the pad with jackplate to gain additional mph.

OB Con- pretty much limited to mid/upper 300's in HP with a single OB, and that is only after substantial modifications. Off the shelf, 300hp max.

Fish boy
05-06-2004, 08:08 AM
One more thing..

for between 8-18 grand, I can pick up one of a dozen+/-different OB powered pleasure boats for sale that will go over 100mph. Any Inboard or I/O non drag boats in the same price range available?