Buying first truck

[TuxedoPk]

After debating the issue for too long I'm ready to purchase a truck for both a tow vehicle and a work truck while I'm fixing up the house. I've decided to keep my car so I'm not looking for a show piece, just a reliable vehicle.

The largest boat I plan to tow is a 24' Doral. Having read all of the threads comparing tow vehicles and I think that the general concensus is between the Ford 250 and the Chevy 2500. Prior threads compare the merits of new models, but didn't give me much insight on older models. I'm looking to spend about $10k so the issue is what's the best used model in that approximate price range.

Suggestions?

(I'm looking to pick up the truck within the next few weeks)

[Team Jefe]

Tux - One word FORD. even the older ones are stout and good for what you need.

Sounds like you need a '97-'99 light duty F250. Really a cross between the F150 and the superduty's. 5.4L V-8 should do you nicely, and there are a couple for sale in NJ on autotrader for around $12K.

There are also a few Regular F250's in Single cab, long bed. Good for the House work issue, but will not be as nice if you need to travel long distances pulling the boat.

[gcarter]

I haven't had a boat to tow until recently, but, in general Ford has served me very well. We've had three in the last 15 years, allways put 50+K per year on them. The first had 450,000 miles (315,000 on the first engine) before I sold it. The Explorer I have now has 190,000 miles, all I've done to it is a water pump, AC compressor, and serp. belt tensioner.

George...this should be a fun thread, come on Bow Tie croud!

[MOP]

Another thought, I picked up a 350 GMC suburban sans 4 wheel drive just posi. I have not towed the 22 yet but it did a nice job towing a 6000lbs 24 foot cruiser, I don;t think it will know the 22 is back there. Another plus has been being able to use it for a few couples going off some place.

Phil

[rickrsbro]

find a well cared for 96-97 powerstroke. less electronics, no wastegate and higher compression than the newer models.

the plastic master/slave clutch assembly is troublesome and the serpentine belt might give you issues. just pack spares.

diesel is having a slight advantage at the pump right now also.

[Cuda]

I had a 99 F150 that pulled my 242 Formula with twins with no problem. Great truck, 122K and all I did was change an alternator at 111k. 5.4 gas, 4wd Lariat. I sold it last year for $10k in great shape. I still miss that truck. IMHO, it was a better truck than my 02 250 diesel.

[JimG]

Must weigh in here for the Cummins...

Mine is a 1996, 189k miles, runs like a champ, AND gets 22mpg hiway/20 city. I get 19 towing the Donzi. Will pull a freaking house, and the body integrity is amazing. Drove 60k miles on the last set of tires, and my tire guy wouldn't do an alignment on it. (Said it didn't need it, looking at the wear pattern.) Brakes lasted 80k miles. I know of several Cummins in the 500k range, still going strong.

[TuxedoPk]

I spent some time test driving the F150 and F250s for the first time today. I definately found F150 ride much nicer (without a boat behind me of course) than the 250 which was much smoother than I expected it to be. I was surprised to see how bad the gas mileage was on the 250.. with prices rising as they are, ouch.

Team Jefe- I didn't see any 250 light duty trucks. Every one was marked Super Duty and the 04 catalog doesn't show anything other than Superduty for the 250/350s. Was 'light duty' only available on the older models?

Cuda-I'm assuming that your Formula weighed about the same as the Doral, a little over 7000lbs. I find it interesting that you preferred the 150... Why? I thought that the 150 wouldn't be large enough but it might be the perfect solution.

MOP-The Suburban would be great until I need to carry rock or pickup sheetrock at home depot...

rickrsbro- When does Diesel become a better or more cost effective solution than a gas engine? I have never driven a diesel vehicle- any performance difference?

Q. Since I don't know exactly how often (hopefully not) I'll be carting sheetrock and plywood, I was wondering what would be the most appropriate sized bed:5.5', 6.5', 8'?

I found out today that if I went with the F150 Supercrew that I'd be limitted to he 5.5' bed. Going with the Supercab and a larger bed wouldn't present much of a problem since the only time I envision using the rear seat is to cart my 3 little nephews and their mother 35 minutes to the boat yard.

== I appreciate everybody's help. I'm really looking forward to getting this truck selection and purchase behind me.

[MOP]

Tux I have had a P/U for over 40 years and still do, but I have put 4X8 plywood in the sub with the third seat out, had maybe 18-24 sticking out. For crappy stuff I have a sturdy plastic pan that I had a 350 block, cinder blocks and untold other greasies. Subs are pretty versatile.

Phil

[TuxedoPk]

Tux I have had a P/U for over 40 years and still do, but I have put 4X8 plywood in the sub with the third seat out, had maybe 18-24 sticking out. For crappy stuff I have a sturdy plastic pan that I had a 350 block, cinder blocks and untold other greasies. Subs are pretty versatile.

Phil

Phil, at one point I was contemplating selling the car and getting a large SUV that would be both my everyday vehicle and tow. Chris shared an interesting perspective on the benefit of having an older P/U that you could just toss stuff in w/o being overly concerned about beating up an expensive new SUV.

Other than on the days when I'm driving my family to go boating, I don't expect to have more than one passenger with me. What benefit do you see going with a 'burban over a P/U for my needs?

[Cuda]

Tux, are you looking new or used?

[HyperDonzi]

Early 90's F150/F250.

Will be 4-5k, dont need to worry about it, and when you sell you wont lose much.

[TuxedoPk]

Tux, are you looking new or used?

I'm going used. Just got done searching F150s within a 100 mile radius of 10987. Based on what I've seen, I wish I'd purchased yours.

[MOP]

Tux in your case a P/U is probably best, I wanted comfort and towing capacity when I go up state. The P/U gets wearing on long trips.

[Cuda]

I know I had mine priced $3000 less than any other comparable truck in Florida at the time. I sold it to the first guy that looked at it.

This is what it looked like the day I sold it.

[Cuda]

[QUOTE=TuxedoPk]



Cuda-I'm assuming that your Formula weighed about the same as the Doral, a little over 7000lbs. I find it interesting that you preferred the 150... Why? I thought that the 150 wouldn't be large enough but it might be the perfect solution.


QUOTE]

I think it weighed in at 8000 or better. It was a heavy boat. Heck, I even pulled the 302 with it. It pulled it fine, but stopping was problematic, especially since I didn't have brakes on the old trailer. The F 150 should do you fine. Mine was four wheel drive, but rarely needed it. But then again, four wheel drive is like a pistol. You don't really need it until you need it badly! :)

[TuxedoPk]

I'll be the first to admit it is much easier buying foreign vehicles where almost all features standard rather than ala mode.

If I go the path of the F-250, here are the decisions needed to be made:

1.) Supercab or Crew Cab (I've eliminated regular cab) I like the looks and size of the Crew cab better but for my use, I can't say that the Supercab would fall short of meeting its occassional requirements transporting 3 small children 35 minutes away.

2.) Long Box or Short Box (My current thought is that the 6.5' shortbox will meet my needs w/o having to cart a larger truck)
(When will having less than an 8' bed backfire on me?)

3.) Engine and Transmission
5.4l Triton Sefi V8 6 speed manual (standard)
5.4l Triton Sefi V8 6 speed manual 4 speed automatic

6.8 Triton Sefi V10 6 speed manual
6.8 Triton Sefi V10 6 speed manual 4 speed automatic

6.0l Power Stroke Turbo Diesel 6 speed manual
6.0l Power Stroke Turbo Diesel 5 speed automatic

(I believe that a 5.4l 4 speed automatic will be the best for my use, but I'd like to hear feedback challenging that assumption)

4.) 4x2 v. 4x4 = I don't plan on boat hauling in the snow, and the amount of driving I'l be doing under those circumstances will be minimal, but considering my rear wheel drive BMW get's stuck at the very sight of snow, this will be my only useable vehicle on those days. Considering the weight of the truck, how beneficial is 4x4?

Ok, then comes the issue of models: XL, XLT, Larriot
I've eliminated the XL and just need to decide whether for a fixed price I'm better getting an XLT with lower miles or a Larriot with higher miles. (I don't know which way to turn here)

I don't intend to do any intentional off roading so I'm planning on skipping the FX4 option

Packages:
- Snow Plow Package: Prepares Super Duty for the added weight of snow plow equipment, includes GAWR (steering damper).
I've got a long driveway and pay $50/snow, double if it is deep. Other than not having to wait to be plowed, is purchasing a used plow and doing my own snow removal a whorthwile idea? I could continue to pay, or get a snow blower as an alternative.

-Advanced Security Group: Combines automatic locks and lamps, alarm with remote keyless entry, and driver's side keypad for additional convenience and security. This doesn't seem like anything I'd be willing to pay extra for.

- Camper Package: Provides computer-selected, heavy service front springs, auxillary springs, and rear stabilizer bar (SRW models) to assist in slide-in camper/utility box applications. What are they referring to?

-Max Front GAWR Package: Provides the highest Front Gross Axel Weight rating and steering damper. This is for very hevy service applications where ride quality is less important than getting the job done. What type of applications would require this package?

-Pickup Box Delete- Deletes Pickup Bos, Tailgate, Rear Bumper, and Spare tire carrier. Prepares the SuperDutyfor aftermarket upfits by certified final stage manufacturers. I think that I can safely say I'm not planning on spending tons of time looking for aftermarket solutions and can eliminate this package.

-Heavy Service Suspension Package: Includes Heavy Service Front Springs and Steering Damper. Recommended for vehicles that will permanently use aftermarket equipmentsuck as heavy duty winches, brush guards, and other apparatus that will load the front axle to the maximum GAWR. (How does this really differ from the Max Front GAWR package?)

-Stablizer Package: Includes Heavy-Duty Service Front Springs and Rear Stabilizer bar to help improve handling when towing heavy loads. (This sounds like something I'd need, right?)

Other features:

- Moon roof, running board lights, and remote starter would be nice but is not manditory

I realize that I'm mixing 2004 options with what will be an earlier model vehicle, but this is just for determining what features I should be getting. It will be interesting to see if the board will have a relative concensus on which options are worth getting, etc. for a particular model rather than comparing this to a Dodge Hemi for example.

I wish I had pricing information on how much the various packages/options add to the price.

I'm going to put together the same type of comparison for the F-150 to get feedback and then it's time to make this purchase.
Q. Are any board members engaged in buying these types of vehicles at auction?

[Cuda]

Dude, you don't think you're over analyzing do you? Buy the best deal you can find.

[TuxedoPk]

Cuda- Dude, you don't think you're over analyzing do you? Buy the best deal you can find.

Ummm...Yes..I'm sure that almost an 8y p/u would have been fine. I enjoylearning about the differeces and ultimatily makinng the right choices. It's an ADDHHD issues... We tend to make great researchers before pulling the trigger.

[Cuda]

Unless you use it a lot, I'd go with a truck similar to my old one. I like the supercab/shortbed because it's easier to park. If you drive a lot and do heavy hauling, go with a diesel. Used gas F150's are MUCH cheaper up front. Heck, even gas 250's are cheap compared to diesels. The truck I have now is a 250 diesel. That's because I drive all over the state, I haul tile and a 30 foot boat. The mileage of the diesel over the gas works for me, since it's not unusual for me to put on 2 to 4 hundred miles a day. I read somewhere that you break even on a diesel at 80,000 miles. I don't think they took into account that you will get most of your money back for the diesel options when you go to sell it.

[Team Jefe]

Tux - WOW, Cuda is right man, way over analyzing....But OK, Here we go.

Diesel - Yeah Sure, but you have stated $10K max, and it will be hard to find a "low miles" PSD for that.

Jim has a good point about the Cummins, he has a nice truck, but it only goes 60MPH....I know casue I blow past him at 90MPH most days going to work :biggrin:
.....I kid Jim cause he let's me keep my boat at his house :rolleyes: ...oh wait maybe I shouldn't kid him for that reason....but I digress.

Really for what you need Gas is fine.

Light Duty F250's were only made for a few years, but it sounds like that is what you need...you like the look and ride of an F150, but need a little more ass.

I think a 6 foot bed serves most purposes people need, and a supercab (Poodle, as always, is right there is no F250 Supercrew) will do fine as well. Again, Poodle is right the Crewcab is HUGE...but for $10K?????

Here are a few links "Close" to you of F250 LD's
http://autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=161658824&dealer_id=1388455&car_year=1999&make=FORD&distance=100&max_price=12000&model=F250&end_year=2005&advcd_on=n&min_price=0&address=10987&search_type=used&advanced=n&start_year=1984&color=&cardist=100

http://autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=160168488&dealer_id=605695&car_year=1997&make=FORD&distance=100&max_price=12000&model=F250&end_year=2005&advcd_on=n&min_price=0&address=10987&search_type=used&advanced=n&start_year=1984&color=&cardist=87

of course with all that being said, I drive an F350, Crewcab, Long-bed, 4X4, 7.3L PSD....so "Do like I say, not like I do"...plus it cost a little more than $10K :shocking:

[JimG]

Jim has a good point about the Cummins, he has a nice truck, but it only goes 60MPH....I know casue I blow past him at 90MPH most days going to work

I need something to wake me up on that morning drive... might as well be you!! :p

If you'd have seen Keith and I driving 90mph all the way to Austin to pick up my Thoroughbred, (hoping the owner wouldn't change his mind again...), you'd have been truly proud of my old smoky Dodge! ;)

Tux, my only advise: BUY A REAL TRUCK! Ford, Dodge or Chebby, don't matter. Once you go heavy duty, you'll never own another half-ton. You want a car-like ride, buy a car. :biggrin.:
Bigger brakes, better suspension, beefy diffs, big coolers. You may not think you'll ever tow a 10k load, but someday you will! I guarantee it! Better to "bring enough gun!"

[DON N.]

I Have A 2001 Ford 150 4x4 7700 Package That Gets The Job Done . 5.4 Triton Automatic 3.89 Ratio Pulls My 22' Classic Excellent.

[TuxedoPk]

Cuda- I think I'm going to go gas 150 for the first truck. If I find out that my estimates for how many miles I'll be hauling are very underestimated I can always trade up to a diesel 250.

Jim - I may not think you'll ever tow a 10k load. I'm going to loose more than my trailer ball if I bring another boat home. Does your wife feel comfortable driving the 250? She will be borrowing it to make NY to MA trips to visit her daughter. I'd rather by a moped than get sucked into driving furniture back and forth because she doesn't feel comfortable driving a 250 alone.

Team Jefe- I'm comming down over my 'research' high.. I'll see if I can find some light duty 250s in my market to drive. With an $80k estimate to re-cedar my roof, and having purchased to many toys of late I'm trying to be a 'bit' conservative- at least until the complaining stops.

Poodle-Thanks for the advice on the crew cab and pointing out that I'll be loosing bed space when I put in a tool chest. Scott, If I'm understanding you correctly, if I end up with a 150 then I should avoid the supercrew because it only comes with a 5.5' bed which will be further reduced by a tool box.

If I go that way I should buy the Supercab and then get the 8' bed, correct?

If I go larger, get a 7.3 Diesel 250 Crew cab, also with a full 8' bed since I'll be popping in a tool box.

--I've seen Diesel 250s with some pretty high mileage on them. If I were to increase the budget somewhat, how much do you think I'd need to spend and what might be an approx. mileage range that I could expect for my $$$

* Do you know of any board memebers who are selling a truck that would be a good match? Anyone in the automotive resale business that could find a good value at auction?

[Team Jefe]

Tux - Jimmy Said It.. I could not agree more.

AND I know the girls will like it......Every girl I've ever known likes driving the Big Truck.....Makes them feel powerful.:wink:

....Of course that may just be Texas Girls!?!?! :D

[G - FORCE 88]

Now, if we are gonna get into diesel's, I work for a DODGE dealer in SOUTH FLORIDA called PLANET DODGE. If your worried about towing, forget the FORD the Cummins 600 is INSANE!!! torque monster!!! It will tow just short of 17000 lbs in a 4x4 dually set up. A little less in single rear wheel set up. It can come Quad cab with long bed, QC with short bed, Standard cab with short bed, Standard cab with long bed. WIth either the standard 5.9 cummins or the H.O Cummins 600. Or the HEMI!!.
I HAVE A HEMI Q.C. that tows anything i want tows 9400lbs.
DODGE WARRANTY is for 7 yrs 70000 on powertrain. 10 yrs/100,000miles on the DIESEL throught cummins. The DODGE's are sweet rigs.
I ADMIT I WAS A BLUE OVAL GUY FOR MANY YEARS, but I have traded colors to RED!
I am extremely happy with the handeling,ride,power,look, and POWER of my truck.

Any questions or anyone want a DODGE let me know I CAN arrange shipping any huge discounts.

Thanks
Jon :beer:

[JimG]

Jim - I may not think you'll ever tow a 10k load. I'm going to loose more than my trailer ball if I bring another boat home. Does your wife feel comfortable driving the 250? She will be borrowing it to make NY to MA trips to visit her daughter. I'd rather by a moped than get sucked into driving furniture back and forth because she doesn't feel comfortable driving a 250 alone.

Tux down here in Texas, the standard "Soccer Mom" vehicle is a 2500 Dodge or F250 Ford diesel with four doors and four wheel drive. They outnumber minivans two to one now! The big trucks make you feel very safe...

[ChromeGorilla]

Hey!!! Wheres the GM option in the poll???

F ound O n R oadside D ead

[springs]

I been driving a Dodge Ram Quad Cab 4x4 for five years. It has seen more abuse than the children at neverland ranch. I pull my Grady White (over 10000lbs full of fuel,water,ice,etc..) short distances very slow. No problem towing but stopping is a bitch. I don't even know the donzi back there. Very tough truck.

[need for speed]

:checkered I got my truck about 6 months ago love it... Next one will be 2500 or 3500 !!!

[Darrell]

You should be able to get by with a good 1/2 ton GM or Ford, I pulled a 26ZX with a 2000 GMC 1/2 ton 4x4 reg cab, it would pull it fine, however stoping was a little tricky. I like the 2500 GMC I have now, but the gas mileage is not near what the 1/2 ton was. If you are going to go 3/4 or a 1ton I would spend the extra $$$ to get a diesel and if you get a CrewCab I would go for the shortbed, a crewcab with a 8ft bed will not be easy to turn and will be much harder to re-sale.

Darrell

[Cuda]

I believe my 99 supercab step side had a 6.5' bed.

[rickrsbro]

it's sounds like your a ford man, so i will voice my opinion on my fords over the last decade. find a straight 96 extra cab powerstoke.

as new models are introduced the horsepower rating has increased at the expense of low end torque. for example...the mechanical idi norfolk built 94 (that my brother owns now) can pull right from 800 rpm without breaking a sweat, but no high end horsepower. that long uphill grade on the interstate will have you dropping a gear if you are towing a big load. ie don't let the rpms drop below 1400 rpm (peak torque). it will pull a concrete truck out of the mud ,no problem, even with a 3:55 rear end.

i ordered an extracab shortbed 96 from the kansas city plant . awesome vehicle, but ate water pumps every three thousand miles. ford bought that truck back and gave me another. sloppy body construction, but ran like a scalded dog. 21:1 compression ratio, no waste gate on the turbo and would pull from 1100 rpm. a little frame noise from the rivits working loose, but zero mechanical issues. by far the best ford product i ever owned, but after three trips to the body shop, it was time for it to go.

the next powersmoker was a 99. it could not blow a fart out of a wet paper bag. after some research to find out why performance was so pathetic i found that ford/international/navistar got busted by the european equivalent of the epa, when their euro diagnostic machine was plugged into the us spec obdII port. it seems the computer would go into limp mode to pass emissions in the us when the port was connected. when the obdII port is unplugged they ran like wildfire. the european plug up was different and heavy fines where payed to the epa. thus the new compliant 99 i had ran like an efficient piece of crap. i did not have any problems, but it would go faster if i just got out and pushed. the torque would come on about 1400 and the 3:55 was no longer available. i had to shift all the time to keep it in the band while towing.

the latest piece of ford junk is an 01 with the cacacacaliforinia split shot injection returnless fuel system. pulses in the fuel rail starve the #8 cylinder and fords *answer* was to develop a special injector for the #8 pot to keep them from knocking at idle. they run well over 2000 rpm and anything lower is a random misfire. the returnless fuel systen destroys the injectors by pumping trapped air thru the injectors. :fire: i still have it and plan to modify it back to the old style fuel system ( tn has no state inspection).

i did get a 10% increase in fuel economy when the warm up valve started puking oil down the back of the motor which has yet to be repaired.

my recommendation find a 96 or 97 extracab and never look back.