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KRAVEN
04-19-2004, 07:34 PM
Does anyone know if DONZI built a wood 16 classic.I spoke with a gentleman who claims his brother has the first 16 built.It is constructed of wood and powered by a 289 w/volvo drive.I will be contacting the owner and hopefully looking at the boat in the near future.

Lenny
04-19-2004, 07:37 PM
Would the "first" prototype 16 have an EATON instead of a Volvo?

But, this could be the "plug" he has found. That would be the rarest of the rare to be sure.

mattyboy
04-19-2004, 08:16 PM
could this be the Wyn-Mill II ???? that was the prototype donzi 16 hull and I believe it was wood???


Matty
That would be a find!!!!

ToonaFish
04-19-2004, 08:21 PM
Formula Jr. wrote a piece awhile back about a homemade wooden boat kit dating to the Bronze Age of Donzi beginnings... can't get the search to pull it up though. Think there were pictures too?

Bunches,

Celene 'brain cells were here just a minute ago...'

ToonaFish
04-19-2004, 08:49 PM
This isn't the post I was thinking of, but it might answer your question, Kraven...

(Ignore that it is titled Python!) (http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1860&highlight=wooden)

Bunches,

Celene 'stumbling over threads'

rayjay
04-20-2004, 07:25 AM
There is a string on boatdesign.net that says the Formula Jr was available as a plywood kit boat back in the 60's.

<http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2983>

rayjay

Lenny
04-20-2004, 09:05 AM
Yes, it was a kit at some point around '64-65...Someone here has one on the site. Toona, I can't find the pics either.


Jim did'nt design the Jr and it isn't the basis of the Donzi 16. Ray Hunt designed the Jr FOR Jim Wynne as a non-production wooden race/test bed for the Volvo outdrive. This wood boat was called the Wynne/Mill. Jim and Walt Walters, created an entirely new plug and mold for the 16. It has not been established if Aronow ever actually owned the Jr's design. We do know that Aronow's Formula Co. never built any. The Thunderbird/Formula Co. started production of Glass Wynne/Mills (Jrs) in '65 and the last production year I have heard of is '71. They are not as rare as I once thought and they are around if you look. With all the research Mike Aronow put into his book, this one little error on the design of the 16 is easy to overlook. The 16 isn't a copy. Its the original Donzi.
from Formula Junior


RAY HUNT DID PATENT THE VEE HULL. THE MAJOR CLAIM OF HIS PATENT WAS A FLOODING KEEL WHICH WOULD SET THE CHINES ON THE WATER TO INCREASE STABILITY AT REST. HE SUED ALLMAND BOAT COMPANY IN 1968 FOR PATENT INFRINGEMENT ON BEHALF OF BERTRAM BOAT. I WAS THEN PRESIDENT OF HMMBBA, (HIALEAH MICKEY MOUSE BOATBUILDERS ASSN, AND SEEING THE FUTURE EXPANSION OF THE SUIT, GOT ALL THE GUYS TO CHIP IN $1000 EACH (BIG MONEY THEN!). WE HIRED OUR OWN ATTORNEYS. ONE OF OUR GUYS, DON WOLLARD, FOUND PRIOR ART WHICH KILLED THE PATENT.

HUNT DID NOT DESIGN THE WYM-MIL. JIM AND WALT DID. (I HELPED BUILD THE ORIGINAL BOAT AT ABBEY BOAT WORKS IN 1963) JIM RACED IT IN PARIS IN 1963.

ARONOW NEVER OWNED THE DESIGN. ARONOW NEVER SOLD THE DESIGN. T-BIRD BOUGHT IT FOR SPITE AFTER 1965, FROM WYNNE, WHO HAD SPLIT FROM WALTERS. SOUNDS LIKE A *&^%$#@ SOAP OPERA.

THE 16' WAS 100% ORIGINAL, AS WERE THE 19', 28' AND 35'. P.S. ANYONE WHO THINKS THE 16' LOOKS LIKE THE JUNIOR IS REASONABLY STUPID.

AB
__________________
BROWNIE

gcarter
04-20-2004, 09:26 AM
Brownie BLUNTLY gets to the point, doesn't he?

George...I've enjoyed this thread

BIG BAD DONZI
04-23-2004, 04:23 PM
The Formula Jr. was sold along with the Formula 233 in late 63/early 64. From the Miami News by Miami News Outdoors Editor Jim Hardie -
"Don Aronow, who carved a name for himself locally in the boat-building and racing fraternity and his partner sold their interest in the Formula Boat Company yesterday.
Dick Genth of Thunderbird Boat Company made the purchase for an undisclosed amount. 'It was a substantial and satisfatory amount' Aronow said.
In an interview published last Sunday, Aronow stated his primary interest was in prototype research and development of rough water racing boats. 'Boat manufacturing in itself holds no interest for me' he said.
The move by Aronow and his partner, David Stirrat, came as a surprise because they had just announced that in its first year of operation the Formula Company operated in the black and prospects for the coming year were optimistic.
'The sale is effedtive immediately and Genth is looking for a larger building in which to set up manufacture of the 23 foot Formula' Aronow said. ' He purchased the rights to the name Formula, and he also has the molds and plans for the 17 footer which we were just setting up to produce'

The article goes on to talk about Don and Dave and their plans for the future - no mention of Donzi yet -

As for the difference in the 17' Jr. and 16' Donzi and who produced what when and where, it seems everyone remembers it a little different. Dick remembered it one way in an hour long converation I had with him prior to and as per King of Thunderboat Row. Others have different recollections.

One thing can be agreed upon now. - The 17' Formula Jr. was Jim and Walt's design, a variation of the original Wyn Mill and that the Donzi 16' was a direct descendant of the Wyn Mill II - a totally different design.

As stated in the Donzi brouchure in 64, the Donzi 16 was "Designed by a team composed of Don Aronow, Dave Stirrat, Jim Wynne and Waltman W. Walters, internationally known marine consultants, designers, ocean racers and builders,(the same team that designed, raced and owned the Formula 233, 275 and Formula Jr.).
"The Donzi 16 has been refined, tested and proved for 3 years. Hull and strake designs have been proven in the Wyn Mill II, test model holder of 8 world marathon records."

And as powerboat writer and sometime racer Bill McKeown wrote in BoatCraft Magazine in June/July of 1965, when writing about Donzi Marine and the 16', -
" Last year Aronow sold Formula to Thunderbird Boats and called in Wynne and Walters to design a different line. During Wynne's testing of his creations, he won the world's offshore championship for 1964.
The Donzi 16 was several years in preperation however. We watched Jim Wynne and Tommy Sopwith drive early prototypes for the Six Hour Endurance Race through the steep chop of the Siene to a class win in Paris three years ago. Wynne repeated the performance two successive years at the Miami Nine Hour as well, and set a number of international records with the little 'Wyn Mill II' along the way."
Bill's article ended as follows:
" And when its rough and you still want to go, she can take it if you can. We remember the first time we saw this in action several years ago. A boisterous Bahama day had blown up for the Around New Providence Race after a flat-sea-go from Miami to Nassau. Running easily on the rough sea in a Formula 23 with Jim Wynne driving, we watched Briggs Cunningham jump his big 38 foot twin diesel cruiser out of the water occasionally in the bumby going. Then behind we saw a little rocket flying low over the water. Sure enough, there came the indomitalble duo, Cox and Joyce, driving Wyn-Mill for all they were worth, and passing the bigger stuff struggling through the seas.
That was a prototype, but now anyone can drive the real thing in a Donzi 16, if they feel up to it."

gero1
04-23-2004, 08:41 PM
very very nice reading