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Rootsy
04-14-2004, 08:09 PM
for anyone thinking of making your own steering... well i hope you are dedicated and have a lot of time and equipment at your disposal... oh yeah... if oyu don't find a good donzi bud to donate all of the material you might go broke trying to buy it these days :rolleyes: :eek!:

BUT it is done... all of the components.. as soon as the cylinder arrives and i purchase fittings and lines we are ready to rock... :)

the last part... the biggun... the wing plate... she's beefy for sure...

JR - POLISHING SUCKS!

gcarter
04-14-2004, 08:18 PM
Jamie;
really good looking work, you're fortunate to have access to what it takes to do this.
Do you expect to see a difference in effort or response useing only one cylinder (you know, subtracting out the rod area in one direction) ?

George

Rootsy
04-14-2004, 08:21 PM
George,

for now ia m using single ram add on... i have my stock cable helm and tiller arm internally. the manifold block replaces the cylinder on the PS actuator and then runs the cylinder externally. it is essentially a redundant system which removes slop from the gimble at the drive increasing stability...

JR - in need of a CNC VMC :idea:

gcarter
04-14-2004, 08:27 PM
In other words you just moved your boost outside. Pretty clever. That really makes for a simple system. Does the new cylinder have about the same area?
I like it! Is this your original idea?
George

Rootsy
04-14-2004, 08:34 PM
i donno bout the area... this is not an original idea.. imco sells this system for around 1500 - 1600 bucks... if you look at the imco system mine is VERY VERY VERY similar... my neighbor and fellow board member doug L has one on his 18 / SS... works great... that boat is rock friggin solid in the high 70's... i am using an XS cylinder... 1.5 bore 7/8 rod. direct replacement for the IMCO cylinder which is almost 100 bucks more and they refuse to drop ship to me...

the other parts rounding out the system...

RedDog
04-14-2004, 09:57 PM
OK Rootsy - at AOTH can you set some time aside for you to "present" what you have done? Either a dock side (as long as you speak real loud) show and tell or in the club house with projector for all so you don't have do do it so many times?

I bet the resort has a transparency project (or maybe LCD projector for laptop).

Tomahawk
04-14-2004, 10:17 PM
Good idea Tim. LCD projectors are expensive to rent but, I can bring one if you want to do this Jamie. I think Precision will be using one anyway. :smile:

Rootsy
04-14-2004, 10:39 PM
what sort of presentation do you want? i didnt take any photos of manufacturing.. just the finished product... i might be able to put something together... i just want to know what folks would want to see...

RedDog
04-15-2004, 06:25 AM
Just show us what you have - and if possible explain what the heck full-system, half-system, add-on system, etc. means. Its all greek to me

ToonaFish
04-15-2004, 08:25 PM
what sort of presentation do you want? i didnt take any photos of manufacturing.. just the finished product... i might be able to put something together... i just want to know what folks would want to see...

Dare I view your pie charts in public?

Rootsy
04-15-2004, 08:31 PM
Dare I view your pie charts in public?

Dare you ride in the 16 ever again???? :jestera:

ToonaFish
04-15-2004, 08:44 PM
You found me out. I really don't like Donzi's. I'm simply here compiling adult diaper research. And they don't pay me enough to take another "No Slide Rules Apply" ride with two engineers and no life vest.

:smash:

Bunches,

Celene 'off to mail her refund for $1.54'

Rootsy
04-15-2004, 08:48 PM
You found me out. I really don't like Donzi's. I'm simply here compiling adult diaper research. And they don't pay me enough to take another "No Slide Rules Apply" ride with two engineers and no life vest.

:smash:

Bunches,

Celene 'off to mail her refund for $1.54'

so where is your pie chart? huh huh? the results of the research are? have your earned your doctorate in poopy yet? had i only known :D :shocking:

oh yeah... we have a lifevest that'll fit ya :)

gero1
04-15-2004, 11:25 PM
i to want to see this set up, have a winery here, do i have to bring some to aoth ?

Rootsy
04-20-2004, 08:58 PM
POLISHING SUCKS!!! I HATE POLISHING!!!!

all i can say.. get it AS SMOOTH as you can by sanding... then polish... crap talk about dirty...

here's the updated stuff though... the wing plate could use some more finesse in the polishing area.. the rest is pretty good :)

Cylinder arrived today but i cut my clevis openings for an imco cylinder... the XS ram is a bit more beefy in this area.. so a nip and a tuck here and there required...

and i have a crapload of fittings and stainless braided teflon PS hose for the plumbing.. last components should arrive thursday... actual shoulder bolts from mcmaster and a PS actuator manifold from IMCO...

the GLM manifolds are on also... much much nicer to install :D

finished product by the weekend :)

Hilsinger Motorsports
04-21-2004, 11:28 AM
Looks great Jamie!

Nice work. Yes...polishing DOES test the patience of otherwise normal men... :smash: :yes:

Allan :)

Fish boy
04-21-2004, 04:07 PM
Looks fantastic Jamie, I just hope my boat dies not see it or I will get the old "you never do anything for me anymore" and "how come jamie polishes and you wont, don't you love me any more?" Nang, nag, nag... LOL

Fish

Rootsy
04-21-2004, 08:39 PM
And the IMCO manifold arrived today... what a nice piece for 35 bucks... i suggest going this route vs wasting time manufacturing ;) see i'm not TOTALLY insane...

i modified the clevis' to fit the XS ram - which btw carries a lifetime warranty from XS and is totally rebuildable, thanks for that info today Allan...

everything is assembled from the transom out... just have to drill 5 DREADED holes... so how thick is my transom anyway? it does step on the inside once you get outside of the transm assy / engine area... hmmm we'll find out... do you all suggest a backingplate too? it'd be a BITCH if i yanked the old transom bracket off of the transom :eek:

so i have evaluated the amount of time invested so far... 25 hours approx. of machining... another 15 in polishing... i'll have another 4 or 5 in assembly, making the other 2 hoses and finishing her up...

total cost to date:

1. Hoses and Fittings: $200.00 - i didn't need four of the fittings so minus about 30 bucks... therefore - $170
2. Cylinder: $485 shipped - with fittings
3. Stainless Steel - Kinda Sorta for the MOST part Donated - Thanks Jim - cept one plate of 12 x 12 x .375 304 - $55
4. Bolts & Nuts - 2 Shoulder Bolts, 3 Mounting Bolts, 8 Nuts - $40 bucks
5. IMCO Powersteering manifold for Brazil Valve W/ Fittings - $35

Grand Total - $785.00

i did buy some shop supplies such as buffing rouges and wheels but those i am not counting int he cost due to usefullness for other shop stuff...

here are a few photos of the finished assy... the wingplate is on the drive still...

sooo anyone wanna donate to the HM and Mr. Boldt for a set of prints :)

JR

gcarter
04-21-2004, 08:49 PM
So 45 hrs @ $60.00/ hr = $2,700.00 for a total of $3,485.00. Maybe you came out ahead. :bonk:

George

tamburello
04-21-2004, 08:56 PM
Labor cost don't mean diddly when it's a labor of love. Few, if any, have a homegrown hyd. steering rig. I for one am impressed, looks great Jamie!

- Jeff

Rootsy
04-21-2004, 08:57 PM
Scott,

i don't know what the internal size of the ram is... the rod is 7/8... the bore must be around 1.25 - 1.5 inches... stroke is the same as an imco i believe... i have not measured... so something like 8 1/4 inches...

the price on a dual ram half system from XS is very appealing.. a full dual ram hyd helm is actually pretty affordable when compared to the competition...

George,

is it economical for me to do from a pure dollars spent stand point? YES... if i was wasting time when i could be making dough then it wouldn't... BUT i work a regular job so i just wander to the model shop around 5 pm and go tot work til i feel like going home... otherwise here i'd sit surfin the board drinkin beer... my other side work ahs been kinda slow this spring... mind you i am also working on a manual lathe and mill.. no CNC stuff here... had it been CNC i could have cut at least 15 of those machining hours out... and umm i only charge $50 / hour when i do work for others...

JR - not quite normal...

Sam
04-21-2004, 08:59 PM
Clean your stove or I'm telling your mother !


Sam ;)

gcarter
04-21-2004, 09:16 PM
Yeah Jamie, It's all worth it. I'm just giving you a hard time!

George

Lenny
04-22-2004, 01:01 AM
...nice looking work James... :garfield:

Woodsy
04-22-2004, 06:47 AM
WOW!!! Looks pretty good.... is it adaptable to OB's? Hmmmm... I wonder..

Woodsy Von Outboard

gcarter
04-22-2004, 07:12 AM
Jamie, it looks great! :wavey:
If I had access to a machine shop, I would do the same thing, on second thought with SST, maybe not. Some things are best left to others! :bonk:
I'm impressed with the design AND the execution of it. Really nice work. :wavey:
The other thing about machine shops is it always takes about ten times longer than you think. Unless you have an ongoing relationship with them, you don't get consideration for several weeks, but then I live in a small town.
This is a great post! Very informative.

George

MOP
04-22-2004, 08:29 AM
Having installed quite a few of these systems even a fairly thick transom will show flexure over time. #1 The best backing plate I have come up with is one that extends outward from the mount about 8 inches made of 3/8 S/S. I use the existing bolt pattern and add 2 on the arm of the plate This provides a lever arm which completely stops the flexing, true most all that I have installed have been inboard units but I think a stern drive exerts just as much force if not more. #2 Another method tha also works well is to bond a plate a few inches bigger with 5200. I use S/S here in salt, but aluminum will be fine for the Root.

JimG205
04-22-2004, 11:27 AM
Rootsy-Nice job! How's the performance on the Demon carb?I here they are pretty simple and have less parts than the Holley's???Good luck-Jim :eek:

Rootsy
04-22-2004, 12:13 PM
Demon... well i like it A LOT more than any holley i've run of comparable makeup... billet metering blocks and all of the bells and whistles that you have to add onto a holley come with the Demon... quick change for the springs, 4 corner idle, 4 jets, baffles, better accel. pump setup... you can pull the specs RIGHT from demon's webpage, right down to air bleed sizes... i took it out of the box, i put it on, set the float heights and the idle mixture and lightened up the secondary spring and that is how it ran last year.. she is a WEE bit rich.. maybe 2 or 3 jet sizes... but that is it... otherwise.. flawless..

Phil,

i'll back the transom bracket on the INSIDE of the transom with a piece of SS plate... probably around 3/16 or 1/4 inch thick. it will be a little larger than the transom bracket footprint and have 5 holes drilled in it.. 3 for anchoring of the transom bracket.. 2 for oil lines... i'll secure it with 4200...

Rootsy
04-25-2004, 01:35 PM
Test fit is complete... completely assembled, fired motor and checked for leaks. System is bled and operation is smooth and tight. ZERO play in the gimble @ the sterndrive now :)... well ok maybe a thou or two due to tolerance stackup :smash:

By the end of the afternoon she'll be complete... as soon as help arrives so i can remove the transom bracket and seal with some good ole 3M :) hmmm 4200 or 5200.. i have 5200... and well an older slightly stiff tube of 4200... why does my gut tell me to use 4200??? :umbrella:

i must admit... drilling 5 big holes in the transom of a perfectly good donzi is an unnerving experience... especially without alcohol!

the only concern i have is that if i go HARD lock to lock i get a squeal out of the serpentine from the P/S pump... a few others who use this same setup have noticed the same thing in their own application... any correction to this?

overall... a very satisfying project and well worth the time i invested in it since i had the time to do it anyway...

as i said before... if anyone would like actual 2D prints or 3D solid models i am willing to pass them on for a small fee... a GOOD portion of which will go to support the registry and the midwest donzi club...

prints for EVERY machined component.. fully dimensioned and detailed... and i will put together a comprehensive BOM of what is required for purchased components...

JR

smoothie
04-25-2004, 02:49 PM
Not bad lookin work grasshopper,no one said being a handle jockey is going to be easy :banghead: :biggrin.: but from the looks of it you are only 33% done,you still have another ram to do and then the helm :eek: my PS pump makes the same noise,I guess its no different than a car when you crank the wheel all the way,BTW how many turns lock to lock?

MOP
04-25-2004, 04:37 PM
Seeing it all together all I can say is you have out done yourself! EXCELLENT!

Phil

gcarter
04-25-2004, 05:03 PM
Jamie, did you ever think of an external adjustable relief velve?
It could be set to relieve before it does so internally, or maybe there isn't one at all.

George

GEOO
04-25-2004, 06:01 PM
Rootsy,
Cool, Great Job!!!

BUIZILLA
04-25-2004, 06:55 PM
Jamie, how close were my measurements on my Gen 1 to your Gen 2 ??

Rootsy
04-25-2004, 07:11 PM
SHE'S FINISHED!!! pending sea trial sometime this week :)

Smoothie,

2 turns lock to lock... which is what my cable helm is... and yes yes I KNOW i am only 33% done ;) actually the half system isn't all that bad.. i like it.. cept for the slop in the helm... and well 2 rams would be lovely :)

Jim,

well, i didn't have to open or move any holes so your measurements were pretty dang close. :) i had to relieve the bottom of the bracket just a bit to clear the protrusions below the bottom bolts and other than that she slid right on...

Woodsy... i am sure we could make it work for an outboard ;)

finished assy... cleaned up ready to rock :D

smoothie
04-25-2004, 07:56 PM
Root do ya think this 2000 series rack and pinion steering (http://www.cpperformance.com/products/Controls/210.htm#Rack) would help any at the helm?

Rootsy
04-25-2004, 08:33 PM
VERY interesting Smoothie... and the price isn't bad either.. even for the SS one... what do ya all think about it? wonder if i have room to put that behind the dash...

smoothie
04-26-2004, 05:16 AM
OOPS...

Go Uflex...

I saw that...but thats what they also say about the assist root just put on,I believe its called....CYA.