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Dr. Dan
04-06-2004, 06:25 AM
:jestera: I wanted to start a discussion about a Topic we all would rather not have to talk about....and that is our Donzis becoming a Roman Candle on the water!

What Systems are best... I have always seen these guys predominantly http://www.fireboy-xintex.com/fire_extinguishing.html

Where is the best place to locate them...I was thinking of the Bulk Head in Front of the Arrestor...does it matter if its not directly Centered?

Is a Manual Option better than the full automatic system...?

Give me your feedback...I don't see alot of these systems in any Classics, I see them as Owner add ons...I know Pearson put a System in the Pumpkin....but why are these so sparse, unless its a $100,000 ZX...I just don't see people with these in there Donzis....I noticed RickR has a System in his 22...

To me it seems like reasonably cheap insurance, if for nothing else to buy you time to get the Hell Off your boat if ya have to... :cool:

If you already have a System, let us know what Brand and Type of installation you have? Thumbnails are good.. :spit:

Doc :smash:

rayjay
04-06-2004, 06:56 AM
Dan, Just add a "yes" to the options. I know I will be adding one to my 22 but I really haven't researched it yet. This thread will hopefully be helpful.

My last boat has one as does my XJ-S. Because of the set-up of the fuel injection and the proximity of the cats to the engine compartment XJ-S's have been known to turn into roman candles. So I added a system just after purchasing it. I was lucky to pick up two Halon systems which are pretty hard to comeby anymore. Problem is the Halon cannot be easily replenished. But I figure if it goes off to suppress a fire, hopefully saving the occupants and the vehicle, I will worry about not being able to replenish it then.

What is being used to replace Halon?

rayjay

Morgan's Cloud
04-06-2004, 09:59 AM
Having had a few hair raising experiences over the years I insisted on a very oversized full time automatic FE241 system on the Magnum.The engine room is huge and easily accepts it.
Get one bigger than you think you will need ! I did'nt use the manual option.. the bottle fires off at 175 deg anyway and the installation is simpler without more damn cables everywhere... Besides there's another huge handheld up front.
Would love to put a system on the St tropez when it's completed but there just is'nt one spare cubic inch in the engine room/transom area available :wrench: :confused:

BTW I accidentally tripped off the original bottle in the Mag a few years ago... went off right in my face :eek!: that was a $500 mistake :bawling: but I did learn that the size bottle was definitely NOT too small for what I needed .... That thing was putting out fires in the next state !

MOP
04-06-2004, 10:03 AM
rayjay FE-241 and HFC-227 are the now approved types. Dan if your engine compartment is similar to mine with it being open to the forward sections of the boat you need to fabricate a firewall forward to contain the extinguishing gas in the engine compartment. We at our shop have done this a few times, it needs to fit fairly tight but can be made of light fire regardant material. I will make one for mine once I can get at everything. It is good to go with Halon as CO2 is very corrosive.

Phil

RickR
04-06-2004, 10:19 AM
If you are ever on a boat that catches on fire (ME!) You'll have one on your Donzi/

Scott Heidt
04-06-2004, 11:10 AM
I WILL DEFINITELY BE INSTALLING ONE. I BELIEVE THERE IS A PRODUCT THAT PREFORMS WELL AND THAT IS LESS CORROSIVE AND MESSY IF EVER DISCHARGED.

SMALL PRICE TO PAY FOR THE SAFETY OF YOUR CREW AND YOURSELF. BOATS CAN BE REPLACED. PEOPLE CAN'T! :kaioken:

LOOK AROUND. PEOPLE WON'T THINK TWICE ABOUT DROPING A GRAND ON A BOAT PART, BUT PUT OFF INSTALLING A $200 -$300 SUPPRESSION SYSTEM. I JUST PULLED THOSE NUMBERS OUT OF MY HEAD, BUT I WOULD THINK THAT IS WHAT A COMPLETE SYSTEM PROBABLY WOULD COST.

rayjay
04-06-2004, 11:44 AM
rayjay FE-241 and HFC-227 are the now approved types. - Phil

Yes they're approved for use in putting out fires, but "they ain't makin' no more". Current stock and what gets recyled is all that is available. Remember commercial aircraft in the US have to carry Halon and most computer rooms still use it so there is a big market for what is left. I'm just thinking ahead for when it starts to increase in price like freon where the old 29.99 cylinder of freon is now 10 - 20 x's that if you can find it. If you have to get your Halon cylinder re-filled it will most likely be with recycled gas.

I'll keep using it as nothing else really works as good (personal experience), and it isn't corrosive like almost everything else. Even CO2 leaves behind an acid after its use.

Thanks Phil for reminding me I will have to add a firewall to the 22. One more item to add to the project...

rayjay

McGary911
04-06-2004, 12:15 PM
My Crit has an auto discharge botlle on the firewall. Another thing to consider is a fire port. If you have a hand held fire extinguisher, and get an engine room fire, the last thing you want to do is lift the hatch, and feed the flame a ton of oxygen. The fire will get bigger. Much bigger. Quickly. The fire port is typically mounted through the firewall, with access through the back seat, once the cushion is removed. Make sure that the cushion can be removed quickly. Then you aim the extinguisher through the hole, so fire supressant goes in, with a minimum amount of oxygen feeding the fire. I saw several of these ports for sale.....ill post the url if i can find it.

Found one: something like this: http://www.marineeast.com/a_sch/sch_det.asp?cid=9&pid=PAR-6800

MOP
04-06-2004, 02:17 PM
McGary brought up a very good thought Fire ports are really worth some thought. I want to add the thought of a temperature warning bell or siren, I have made several ports by simply cutting a 2-3/4 hole in the fire wall covered by a thin piece of fiber glass held by one screw at the top. Swing it aside hold the extinguished against. On a few I ordered 250 degree thermo couples and wired them to a loud bell or horn. I like the warning that a fire has started even with a bottle back there, I may want to go swimming and watch from a little further away. My 17 foot Formular caught fire with me aboard, picture below shows results which took less that 10 minutes! *** I will not go without a warning system. *** I did not know it was burning until I saw my friends franticly waving and yeah I went overboard. My ass is far more important then any toy! Very few have had this experiance it is worse than having a drunk jealous boy friend hold a gun to you, been there done that.

MOP

JimG205
04-06-2004, 02:41 PM
Guy's-Safety issue very well taken.We fail to realize that aside from the engine, we all carry 40 + gallons of a liquid that if ignited would challenge NASA for propellant,not to mention the explosive force.Being around the water and boats my whole life,I have seen too many tragic results.Everything else on hold till the minx gets an updated fire suppression sytem.Regards,Jim :anchor:

smokediver
04-06-2004, 06:18 PM
there are a few things you need to keep in mind... turn the engine off ... if you see flames coming out of the vents, get out of the boat. the fire will only get bigger when you open the hatch and i doubt the portable extinguisher will do the job. I like CO2 ... a lot cleaner than dry chem !!! CO2 displaces the O2 which disrupts the chemical chain reaction that is fire. halon is clean but going by the way side. I will talk to the fellas in fire prevention to see if there is anything coming out that is as neat as halon... just remember ... If in doubt .. get out !

Woodsy
04-06-2004, 07:08 PM
Danny...

My Yellow 22 has a Firebouy automatic system, (not sure of the suppresant, don't think its halon, prob CO2) mounted on the firewall, directly in front of the the intake. Because of the limited amount of air available in a Donzi engine compartment(relative to the large amouts of oxygen a fire needs to sustain itself) Most of the mid size bottles will work nicely. The auto system I have has an alarm mounted on the dash, a small green led that is supposed to howl if the system discharges. I also carry two hand helds down on my kick panels...

Ask George if he thinks he should have had one after he dusted that HTM cat..... better yet, ask Bonnie!

Woodsy Von Outboard

Ed Donnelly
04-06-2004, 07:11 PM
Appears most if not all Criterions came from the factory with automatic halon systems. My S.S. has it. I wonder if they were trying to tell us something...Ed

Dr. Dan
04-06-2004, 08:40 PM
:spongebob Cool...Great responses...Poodle I thought the last option addressed DIY Installation...plus I don't know how to Edit the Poll once posted...tried it ... could not do it.

I was going to do one regardless....but I thought i would get some fresh perspective...I know we have some Fire Boys here...and I know Culotta has gotta feel Lucky after his Speed Romp....either that or he has an endless supply of "Clean Shorts!" :p

I am going to wait for the New Power to nest in...then get a Fix on where to mount it...but I know I will do one for sure at the Bulkhead ..as close to Centerline as possible...I think I may do one on the Transom as well. I like the alarm and LED Warning idea....I have always carried Two Portables...but...

Thanks For the Responses... :shades:

Doc :rolleyes:

mphatc
04-06-2004, 09:02 PM
I have recently been installing alot of firesystems in racecars . . and these are all AFFF , a water based easy to charge foam that is easy to clean up and cheap to recharge.
Propellant is a CO2 cartridge.

Installation is simple and can be set up as automatic . . .

To the best of my knowledge some marine automatic temperature sensitive system use pressurized plastic tubing that will rupture when overheated. I personally don't like a set up that is always pressurized . . If I am wrong someone please correct me!

My other concern . . and Wooody Von Outboard ( you only need to jetison your Big Johnson . . :biggrin: ) also mention ed this . .is the "limited" air supply to fuel the fire.

I'm not sure how much air can get to the engine compartment from the forward compartment on some boats, but the Corsican has a huge amount of open area for air to feed a fire . .So I am considering to add free standing baffles . .as additional protection.

Also FWIW
AFFF Foam will suppress it by removing the heat and smothering it. Foam or Dry Powder will smother fuel that may be floating in the bilges, but remember Dry Powder will not remove heat (so the fire may restart) also the powder may impair vision and affect breathing.

Mario L.

rayjay
04-07-2004, 07:46 AM
Mario, Since you are familiar with these AFFF systems could you point out a few AFFF systems that you think would work on a boat? Where should the nozzles be for best coverage? Are there different types of foams, and if so, which would be the best for a boat?

I found this, but it was just about the only site I found that was not for a system to be installed in a building or mounted on a truck.

<http://www.race-sport.net/firesystems.html>

Thanks,

rayjay

smokediver
04-07-2004, 05:07 PM
not to be a doom sayer to AFFF ( aqueos film forming foam) but , Boats pitch and roll so there goes the fire in the bilge scenario unless you are dockside and it is calm. AFFF is most effective on hydrocarbons ( gasoline) at a 3% mix ratio and 6% for polar solvents( alchohol). What if the fire is electrically induced? AFFF wont work. To get an adequate foam blanket you need a water source, a pump or propellant,foam,a foam proportioning device and a special nozzle . A regular handline on a house fire is pumped at 100 psi at the nozzle for a fog stream. for foam it is 200 psi !!! Having said that , wouldn't it be easier to stick with the time proven things that are on the market? Don't get inventive with safety ...

Bad-Tat
04-07-2004, 06:37 PM
Dr Dan,
Bat-Tat Blackhawk has factory installed one. Mounted on the firewall in front of the motor above the trim tab pumps.

cigarette30
04-15-2004, 08:37 PM
Guys,

I had a Fireboy FE241 installed before I would ever consider the first start up of my 04' Classic. Halon has been replaced with a similar agent that will disrupt the "burning" process called FE 241 (chlorotetrafluoroethane) It is a very easy install, right under the hatch mechanism. (sideways) I would never have a boat without one. Cheap insurance. Matter of fact, some companies give a discount.

cigarette30
04-15-2004, 08:50 PM
Guys,

Sorry, forget to say, total unit cost is less than $200.00, and the model # is CG2 - 125 - FE241, with a coverage area of 125 cu/feet

Cuda
07-02-2004, 06:25 AM
Guys,

Sorry, forget to say, total unit cost is less than $200.00, and the model # is CG2 - 125 - FE241, with a coverage area of 125 cu/feet


Where do you buy them?

Cuda
07-02-2004, 07:04 AM
Cuda, you need one??


I may need two. I want to see what all is involved in putting one in. Last year's incident with the starter skeered the hell out of me. I was at the point where I didn't know whether to fight the flame, or get my dogs out of the box next to the boat.

Dr. Dan
07-02-2004, 07:16 AM
Cuda....here ya go.. http://www.fireboy-xintex.com/ I have to install one in the Pill too!

:smash: Doc

MOP
07-02-2004, 07:58 AM
The head guard is a good idea, it is easy to inadvertantly damage the discharge head.

Phil

cigarette30
07-07-2004, 02:18 PM
Where do you buy them?

Sorry I did not get back to you, Boaters World $189.00, or on E-Bay often $125.00 - $150.00. Very easy install, and the new ones have the "head gaurd" and the remote light showing discharge. Would never boat without one.

cigarette30
07-07-2004, 02:22 PM
Cuda....here ya go.. http://www.fireboy-xintex.com/ I have to install one in the Pill too!

:smash: Doc

Doc ...... and no way would you float the "pill" without one, and did we discuss two bilge pumps ...... smiling :D

Eugene Nahemow
07-08-2004, 04:39 PM
I called Boaters World and they said they didn't sell the extinguishers. :frown:
Any one else with any leads?
Thanks.

mphatc
07-08-2004, 07:35 PM
Shop www.lewismarine.com , I have a commercial account and can get you anything from them, likely save you some dough as well.

Mario L.