This is not Good!

[David O]

back to the engine shop I go. I can see and feel damage to the cam shaft bearings so I wonder just how much was done to all the rod and crank shaft bearings.

[rayjay]

OOOFTAH!

Just take it straight to whoever built it and have them disassemble it completely to check. Did someone put in a restrictor to get more oiling to your bottom end by restricting oil to your top end? Were the right lifters used for the block?

[David O]

If I remember correctly Crane 272 cam with matching lifters.
I have no clue on oil restrictors but will be sure to ask the machine shop if any are in there.
With it only being one lifter and the one next to it a little damaged, I wonder if it was just a bad lifter. seems very strange that only one would go so bad so quick.

[MOP]

If I remember correctly Crane 272 cam with matching lifters.
I have no clue on oil restrictors but will be sure to ask the machine shop if any are in there.
With it only being one lifter and the one next to it a little damaged, I wonder if it was just a bad lifter. seems very strange that only one would go so bad so quick.

I have seen this quite a few times, some will argue but it is usually caused by improper cam break in. All to often guys will start a fresh engine and let it idle, that is the worst. Any new flat tappet cam engine needs to be brought up to 15-1800 RPM immediately and left there, I let it run there about 15 minutes to be sure the cam got good oiling, it is extremely important for the crank to splash the cam with oil. Once a cam is broken in properly it will outlast the engine.

Another thing guys neglect to get roller lifters properly prepared before putting them in the motor, they must be soaked in muneral spirits over night to remove the preservitive grease then soaked in 30wt oil. This will keep them from getting flat spots. "DON NOT BLOW THEM OUT WITH AN AIR NOZZLE THE ROLLER CAN AND WILL SHATTER!" Ask me I can show you the scar that I have from a ricochet not a direct hit from about 20 feet away!

MOP

[Cuda]

Was that the yellow x-18 that was at Mt Dora?

[David O]

yes it was.
Haven't figured out the electrical problem yet but I do now know why it was loosing power and having a hard time getting up on a plane.
Sure am glad I idled all the way back to the ramp verses trying to run it hard. Hopefully I caught it before to much damage was done.

[Voodoocanoe]

You will probably find most of the cam/lifter material on the piston skirts.

[David O]

You will probably find most of the cam/lifter material on the piston skirts.

Is that going to be a bad thing dollar wise?
I already see a lot in the oil pan and the oil pump gears are trashed and the cam bearing I can see is pitted. Photo below

Phil
I did the standard breakend procedure but was told 1200 to 1500 RPM for 20 minutes. Is that not correct?

Wrapped in body bags for the Machine Shop photo below.

Bright side photo below.

[Rootsy]

what kind of oil did you use to break her in with?

[David O]

Pennzoil Marine, HEAVY DUTY, SAE 30

[MOP]

Curios were the two munged lifters side by side?

[RickR]

BUMMER
The same thing happened to me on a Gen V BBC a couple of years ago. TWICE :incredibl First engine lasted a few hours/ second 20 minutes!

Comp Cam K kit with cam, springs and lifters. I think their choice of springs (single with damper) was too strong for a flat tappet.

I ruined cams, lifters, bearings, rings and scored a piston and cylinder walls.

From now on during flat tappet break in I will.

Use high quality 30W
GM EOS (Engine Oil Suppliment)
Break in with a light valve spring (I used a single outer spring from a double spring set and changeed afterward) (keep below 3000rpms)
Set timing close
Fill carb, filter and lines with fuel
Keep above 2000rpms for 15 minutes then vary betweem 1500 amd 2500 for 15 more minutes

GOOD LUCK!!!!!!!!!!!

[David O]

Curios were the two munged lifters side by side?

YEP
The photo of the cam shaft shows the two damaged lobes.

[mphatc]

Flat tappet cams . . tip, during assembly check to make sure that the lifter can rotate fully and freely in its bore. If it is not able to damage like this can occur.

Mario L.

[DONZI]

Things that come to mind.

Oil pickup tube installation.
Pre-lubed including oil pump.
Oiling system primed before starting.


Flush oil cooler & lines.

[David O]

I am not very smartwith engines but my common sense tells me if it was an oil or break in issue, I would see damage to all the lifters not just two. one destroyed and one damaged.
I wonder did I have one fail from a defect and because of the close proximity to the one next to it, it too got damaged.
Is my thinking wrong wouldn't an oil or breakin issue have basically the same effect on all lifters not just one?
I hope the machine shop feels sorry for me and cuts me some slack on the repair.

[RickR]

David O
During my break in failures 1 lifter failed the 1st time, 4 the second time.

[MOP]

Many times only one or two go, it is a tough call where to shove the blame. The :cussball: is the cam and lifter being heat treated send some very hard bit ans pieces through the engine, all the soft parts will show damage IE: bearing, and yes the crank crap is so hard its mean!

Phil

[Rootsy]

David,

there are likely numerous reasons and theories on why that camshaft failed... one thing is for sure though... disassemble the ENTIRE MOTOR... inspect EVERY part... REPLACE every bearing and wash everything thoroughly... the whole crankcase and likely the heads and combustion chambers are contaminated with debris...

i once knew a guy who lost a cam and figured he'd flush his motor with mineral spirits and then she'd be fine.. fresh oil and a camshaft in her made it 3 miles before he spun a bearing...

JR

[David O]

Well it's at the shop now and the man says he won't touch it unless I allow him to do a complete wash boil etc. to the whole engine.
He agrees that debris will be everywhere and that every bearing and bearing surface needs replacing and or refinished.
He said he will call later as to the condition of the crank bearing surfaces and if salvageable.
So much for my Peason recommended epoxy paint job, more dollars gone. WOW

[Voodoocanoe]

Don't forget to flush the oil cooler and lines.

[rayjay]

David, What was the history of the block before you used it? Do you know if the block was tanked and cleaned before any work was done, and throughly cleaned after too?

Just to add to the assembly part of this thread, I was shown and have continued to use STP (don't laugh) as an assembly lube. It is the ONLY time I ever use STP, okay ... well ... there was this well worn 289 I had once that was fill the oil and check the gas... Like using Amsoil instead of any of the other synthetics, I do it because I have never had an oil related engine failure since I have been doing it other than something mechanical going bad the oiling system. If I see that there is another synthetic, or assembly procedure, that works better (not just different) I will change. I started with Amsoil because of racing air cooled bikes many years ago. Mobil 1 (the original) turned to gloopy water when subject to the high flash temps of air cooled bikes, but Amsoil didn't. Supposedly, or at least from the person who showed me about STP, STP will stick to the part for some time and eventually combine with the oil after running. Some of the other assembly lubes sometimes dried out or turned to goo and formed clogs in air cooled engines leading to eventual failure.

rayjay