Mercury vs. OMC King Cobra????

[Mike Ellison]

Any opinions on what drive has better performance, and which holds up better?

[Hanker]

I have to wonder if anyone has any actual facts, not just their personal biases.........

[Rootsy]

so i assume you are speaking of a bravo 1 or a bravo XR or a bravo XZ vs the king cobra? I believe they made 2 different version of the King.. early and late or something along those lines...

this thickens the stew ;)

but since we were general with the merc.. lets compare the king to the #6... or the #5 or the #3 speedmasters.. how bout the new merc sportmaster... or the good ole TRS... hmmmm i won't waste my time in the alpha ranks... but there have been some folks putting screaming power through SS's without issue... somehow... :rolleyes:

[Mike Ellison]

1992 King.........

[mattyboy]

been waitin all winter for this storm!!!!! :eek: :tongue:


Matty
fire hot , beer cold , pretzles warm, 30 yr old volvo still running!!!

[thriller]

I would think they are all good given their track record. Bravo's for big blocks and Alpha's for small blocks and if you really want an experience then some our known to be partial to a Blackhawk drive. As far as parts go the Blackhawk's are getting harder and harder to buy for but having said that I have found this not to be a deterring factor. Bottom line is reliability and performance. Personally, Go Black and never look back. :shades:

[FISHIN SUCKS]

I've been told my King Cobra has all the heavy duty components that you would ever want in an outdrive (clutch, driveline, bearings, etc.). I've also been told that the King is not so hot for a high speed outdrive. I broke one of the U-joints in my '91 last August (sucked)! Can't tell you much for comparisons to the mercs.

[Mike Ellison]

I snapped the upper shaft in my bravo one last year. Running 454 mag close to 400 hp. The shop that repaired it said that if it wer'nt for merc's they would be out of business. Just one repair shop owners opinion.......

[FISHIN SUCKS]

Isn't that something, I always thought mercs were supposed to be pretty good (I would probably agree on the 'opinion' part). The 'piss-poor' so-called trained mechanic (supposedly been to 4 omc schools for the king) actually replaced both U-joints when I first broke. Then after a 20 minute run, broke one of the replaced u-joints at the beginning of labor day weekend! My 454 + .030 has been dyno'd at 475hp. Doofus the mechanic claims the outdrive should be able to handle the power. I don't know! If you are ever in need of repair in the Fort Wayne area, I'll tell you who to avoid.

By the way, like your girly clip! Hope this doesn't make me some kind of pervert!

[Sam]

Mike, check with "Dork and Brad Lyon" I'm pretty sure they both have OMC. Also check the Registry, there are several listed there. I'm sure if contact them you can get some first hand feed back.

Sam

[MOP]

I think either drive will do a good job, any if hammered will break. Like stated above there have been and still are a lot of Alphas with serious HP going through them. Much of what breaks is operator induced, no one should hammer a high output engine out of the hole and run good oil pref Redline. The big Cobra and the Bravo both use Volvo shift engineering, which is better than bottom clutch dog shifters. The only future drawback will be parts for the OMC stuff, ask aroung to see wahts breaking and stock up.

[Woodsy]

Pretty much what MOP said! Either drive is a good drive, most will hold up pretty well. The late model King Cobra's have a cone clutch (you can tell by the "hump" on the upper housing). Thats the style you would want. The only issues with the OMC setup will be parts & availability (not now, but down the road) and a lack of trained technicians. I have owned both, I thought the OMC shifted nicer, but I had NO issues with either one...

Woodsy Von Outboard

[Mike Ellison]

Woosy,

Thanks for your advise. Is this this the late model you discribed?

Thanks again everyone,

Mike


Pretty much what MOP said! Either drive is a good drive, most will hold up pretty well. The late model King Cobra's have a cone clutch (you can tell by the "hump" on the upper housing). Thats the style you would want. The only issues with the OMC setup will be parts & availability (not now, but down the road) and a lack of trained technicians. I have owned both, I thought the OMC shifted nicer, but I had NO issues with either one...

Woodsy Von Outboard

[Fish boy]

Wonder what the race guys and the high performance boat builders (Donzi, Cigarette, Spectre, Fountain...etc) are using in their boats?? :idea:

[RickR]

Mike
Yep that is the late model King Cobra (start 89/90)
I've had both and each has its merrits.

My King had less gear lash (smoother shifting) and better steering. The water pump was not adequate for high performance (400+HP)

The Bravo has better parts availability and the gear lube resevoir makes a lot of sense.

[Greg K]

My King had less gear lash (smoother shifting) and better steering. The water pump was not adequate for high performance (400+HP)


I'm not sure what the limit is, but I'm getting adequate water flow on my new 502 using a crossover w/ bypass and running a 160 t-stat.

I also have thought about what Poodle asks, but using a crankshaft mounted water pump.

[BUIZILLA]

Rick, is that boat in your pic in a swimming pool? :confused:

J :wavey:

[MOP]

MP is 100% right the Oberdorfer will not work on some applications but for $269 retail you have a pump the takes a lot less HP to drive, eliminates rubber impellers and needs rebuild at about 500 hours. Draw back they must be mounted below the water line "they are not self priming" the flow rate/HP chart is impressive to anyone that takes the time to look it over. I have worked with these pumps for many years thier life span reliabilty is unquestionable. http://www.oberdorfer-pumps.com/pumps/products.htm The 70P is my choice and will work for bigger apps.

[BLACKIE]

I've been reading all of the above posts on the King Cobra vs Mercruser drives and I was wondering if I need to worry about the cooling capacity of my KC drive. I'm speaking about RickR's old boat that I bought from RedDog last fall. Rick, you know the boat probably better than anyone. Do I need to (or should I) think about add/replacing the existing water pump with some other type?

Rick, I've been meaning to give you a call anyway, how about sending me your phone number and I will get with you this week.

hrblack@comcast.net
Home 586 777-7411
Cell 586 703-7751
:confused: :confused:

[gjohns6896]

Well, since you all are using my boat as the focal point, I might as well suggest that it is for sale. Mike has the pic of my transom in post #13, and I also have many other pics if you so desire. Mine is very much unmolested...no radio, thru-hulls, etc. Just your basic Donzi Classic...classically. Oh yeah, and mine DOES HAVE the later-model cone-clutch style OMC drive, and I have had similar experiences as those who have posted about its reliability and shifting (both wonderful)! My folks also have a 1988 Cobalt 21' bow rider that weighs A TON with the same engine as mine (350), although the smaller OMC Cobra drive, and it is STILL kicking with well over 700 hours! Never a rebuild, never anything major. However, we run on inland lakes, and are not driving 80mph all day long (like Fountain, Cig, etc. that someone ELSE suggested to look at).

Cheers,
George

[RickR]

I was not aware there were two sizes of drive mounted King Cobra pumps. My 18 orginally came with a SBC so she might have had the smaller pump.


My experience, in the 18, with a 420HP (stock compression, 93 octane, 34 degres total) engine was that I would get a significant rise in oil temps after a few miles at greater than 3/4 throttle. The water temp was never a problem.

A larger oil cooler might have fixed the problem. The BBC that is in the 18 originally came from 2nd Effort (OMCs racing division) with a engine mounted raw water pump. BBC was a 1988 block built before OMC started mounting the pump on the drive.

Blackie, you're got mail :checkered

[gjohns6896]

Here are some pics of my 18...BEFORE cleaning up the engine compartment!

Cheers,
George

Vital info: 1992 Classic 18, sbc 5.7L, OMC King Cobra drive, no hourmeter (guess around 400 +/-), three props go with it (stock Viper, newer Raker, and brand new Ballistic never installed), I have reached about 62mph (speedo) WOT, I am the third owner and have had her for almost three years (the second owner lived in Ohio, as the license plate suggests) and the original owner had the boat stored on the trailer inside a garage, when not in use (I was told). I keep her on a Hewitt Lift hoist above the water and keep the cover over her always (cockpit cover is also red to match). Also with the boat comes the trailer (grey Eagle) and if you are interested, I will also sell the hoist (I bought it brand new when I bought the boat). Boat & Trailer : $15,000. Hoist...best offer.

[Cuda]

Wonder what the race guys and the high performance boat builders (Donzi, Cigarette, Spectre, Fountain...etc) are using in their boats?? :idea:

I think that's more because of the stranglehold merc has on the racing and hipo market. You saw what happened when Apba allowed the Gm engines. Merc pulled their sponsorship. Merc has all the weight, and they're not shy about throwing it around.

Merc also basically owns Fountain, I wouldn't look to see any of the Volvo drives in them any time soon.

Also parts and mechs are easier to come by, and it's a good damn thing! :)

Like they say: When do play a crooked game? When it's the only game in town.

[CaptWK]

Rick,

What do you think of the idea of taking the impeller out of the KC housing and using a Merc style (no Oberdorffer;s MOP :D ) raw water pump?

Also, r u aware there are two pumps for the KC, one of which has a substantially larger housing and inpeller??


Can you give me more info on the larger pumps. I am running 1993 King Cobras with 454's Mags. Thanks

On the issue of KC verses Merc I like the KC for several reasons. Great shifting, ease of changing impellers. I was told by a certified OMC mechanic that a KC could handle up to 500 hp with no problem. As for parts right now there is a good supply out there. And it seems like every shop I go to has Mercs lined up for repairs. I have heard mechanics say that mercs keep them in buisiness. I think its a name thing. Mercury is everywhere and saying you have " Bravos " sounds better than saying King Cobra's. Also I was told that years ago OMC was testing a hydraulic driven sterndrive when they were sold and it was shelved. They said if it ever was developed it would revolutionize sterndrives and make what we are using now old school. So is Bombadier sitting on something? Anybody else ever hear this story?

[Steve Harwood-Stamper]

Woosy,

Thanks for your advise. Is this this the late model you discribed?

Thanks again everyone,

Mike

The King cobra has the Larger Bearings. They are huge.

I have machined up some shafts that take the Racing Merc Hub.
After the rear Propshaft bearing the shaft doesnt loose any diameter to the end.

I have double lip seal that needs no mods to the housing.

Twisting and Snapping prop shafts is/ was my only problem.

Steve

[gcarter]

Also I was told that years ago OMC was testing a hydraulic driven sterndrive when they were sold and it was shelved. They said if it ever was developed it would revolutionize sterndrives and make what we are using now old school. So is Bombadier sitting on something? Anybody else ever hear this story?Quoted by CaptWK

It's been my experience that anything you do with hydraulics, while small and compact, is noisy as heck. Just what you need is engage the drive and the engine noise be drowned by a hydraulic squeal!!! :smash: :smash:

George Carter
P.S.
How do you do those cute little Quote boxes?

[CaptWK]

If anyone is sitting on it, it would be Volvo who bought the entire OMC sterndrive line from em..

I will work on some part numbers, give me a few days. Your 1993's may be the larger pumps already..
Scott I have 1992 KC drives was thinking I had 1993's

[Greg K]

Scott,
That pump kit part number is for '92 and up KC's.