Corvettes

[Crazy Horse]

With the exception of the 1960's Vettes I have never really been a fan of these cars. I had always thought that they were wanna be sports cars. This past weekend I drove my brother's 1997 Coupe from St. Louis to Boston. I was VERY impressed by this car. 345 horsepower, six speed, that big throaty American V8. The car handled on the highway while weaving in and out of traffic like a fine racecar and it was very comfortable to ride in. 1200 miles later I did not feel beat up as I have in other (fine) cars that I have made long trips in. Only complaint I have was a lot of road noise in the cabin and the cheesy controls that fill the dashboard. But I guess I had missed the mark thinking that these were wanna be sports cars. Thoughts?
http://www.donzi.net/photos/vettecrazyhorse01.jpg

[Tidbart]

John
They have always been the sports car.
The wannabe s were the camaros and trans ams.

I wonder how many people I just offended? :D

[Looped]

73 to the mid 90's were the bomb years exept for 83 that was the best mad vette of the era :rolleyes:

[FASTEDDIE]

There was no 1983 Corvette. Chevrolet was moving from the St.Louis plant to the new plant and they also had trouble with the design of the transmission that year which wasn't straightened out until June so they were to late to deliver a 1983 Model so they introduced the 1984 Model early.I'm sure Looped was dangling a carrot out their for the members.Chevrolet was so disappointed because the 1983 model was to be the thirthy year anniversary model year.(1953-1983)

[Looped]

What carrot? :rolleyes: :D

[Ranman]

That 83 was a split window model too....oh wait that was 63. My dad has a 1960 and my brother has a 1968 roadster. We also had a 1984 back in 1984. You have to love the cross fire injection (dual throttle bodies) and Knight Rider esque bar graph gauges. The 60 has no seat belts and wouldn't hold up in an accident period. The 375+ hp 383 doesn't help either. You can smoke the tires in 3rd gear. Ever heard the term "wrap your ass in fibergalss"?

[Woodsy]

Corvettes? Slow, overweight, unrefined Chevrolets!! They aren't a sports car, and haven't been since 1968. When GM introduced the Mako body style, the corvette lost what it originally was. Then came those horrid 1970's corvettes when GM unleashed those ultra-powerful small block smog motors.... They are nice cars, but I consider them to be luxury sport coupe, not a true sports car. The only true sports car made in the USA today is the Viper GTS-R. You might be able to make an argument for the Prowler too. Rumour has it Ford is bringing back the GT-40, but will see if that really happens. BTW, Ford is the ONLY american car mfg to ever WIN at LeMans... with the GT-40.

The only true sports cars in the USA are imports. The king being Ferrari, followed closely by Porsche & Lamborghini. There are a few one off type mfg's like McLaren and Panoz. But they aren't really production cars.

If you want real sports cars, then set the way-back machine to 1967... when you could get a 427 Cobra SC, or the famed ZL-1 Corvette, or a Jag E-type! Thats what a sportscar is... todays offerings pale in comparison....

Woodsy Von Cobra :D :D

[HyperDonzi]

Woodsy, Prowler has a 6 cyl dosent it??

And Dodge DIDNT need toyotas styling guy, they needed toyotas engine engineer (I think). Look at the Viper engine, 8.3 Liters. WOW BIG but making only 700hp (I didnt mean only, but something like the word only...) Then look at a... Honda Civic Si, not to compare ricers to vipers, but that honda makes 160hp in that 1.6l=100hp/liter And dodge only (yet again, I didnt mean only, just something like only..) makes 85 hp/liter. Sounds a bit more Hi-Tech (not that i think you should buy a civic over a viper) Plus, when was the last time dodge re-did anything besides where the exhaust exits the car, body styling change or increase the displacement? They Should re do the drive train, lighten the car etc...(thats what I thought a year ago, i dont know if anything has changed since then)

[1996Z15]

Woodsy you sem to have forgotten the LS6 Corvette of 1971 or the ZR1 / ZR2 of the 70's era. As for modern sports cars I would have to say that the Prowler is nothing but a "poser" and that the Corvette ZO6 is a better car than most "dollar for dollar".

I'm a bit biased towards the Corvette since I own one but I can appreciate all cars. The Viper is an awesome car and I applaud Dodge for having the balls to build such a car in this day and age but it has it's flaws just like all of the other cars that you named.

[Crazy Horse]

Woodsy, there was a fairly lengthy article in 'Automobile' about plans for a 2004 Mustang GT40. They likened what they are going to do with that car to what they recently did with the Thunderbird. Fender and Gibson guitars do these reissues all the time with some success.

[harbormaster]

Woodsy,

In your opinion What attributes define a sports car?

[HyperDonzi]

Woodsy, be sure not to forget Convertible/T-Tops and being fast as some of the qualities.

[Looped]

Actually back in 1982 my neighbor that was in the 1980 Olympics on the hockey team “David Jensen” (their were to of them that year on the team David A. & David H.) went on to play with the Hartford Whalers & Boston Bruins bought a 2-tone blue 82 Vette that I thought was the best thing. When 1986 came around and I got my license I was able to drive the thing and with the car being only 4 years old it had tons of rattles and drove like crap.

We’ll see if Ford comes out with the new style of the Mustang in 2004 that somewhat has the old 60’s lines:

http://www.donzi.net/photos/cringer04stang.jpg

[Crazy Horse]

Looped that's the Mustang sketch that I had seen. I hope that they build it.

[HyperDonzi]

Right on, the rims look to big for the car though. Put some smaller chrome rims and some BIG BEEFY tires on it :D

[GeneD]

Gentleman,
I just can not tolerate any Corvette bashing on this site!
Those of us that own them, know their shortcomings. I have cursed my car more times than I can count.
But there is nothing in the world like driving one. It's a special feeling. Very similar to driving the Donzi.
I can do without a lot of things in my life, and I've done so. But I can't and never will be without a Corvette.

[Brad Lyon]

Woodsy here are some pictures I took of the new GT40. It's in the correct color I might add! I have been told by some friends in Ford that it will be a limited production and employee's can get it on A plan. We'll see.......

Brad

http://www.donzi.net/photos/blyon360.jpg

http://www.donzi.net/photos/blyon361.jpg

http://www.donzi.net/photos/blyon362.jpg

http://www.donzi.net/photos/blyon363.jpg

http://www.donzi.net/photos/blyon364.jpg

http://www.donzi.net/photos/blyon365.jpg

[Woodsy]

Hyper...

As far as comparing HP/liter, the Honda Si engine is a direct decendant of Honda's F1 program. Honda has some incredible engine designs. My favorite being the oval pistoned Motorcycle engine... outlawed of course... However, we were talking about sports cars, not engines or technology. T-Roof or Convertible has nothing to do with a car being a "sports car". I don't want to mention the Nissan Pulsar NX, T-tops, cool looking car, 0-60 in 10 minutes or so. I mentioned the Dodge Viper GTS-R, because it fits the acceptable criteria of a true sports car, High HP, lightweight, 2 seater, simplistic in its design, effectively a detuned race car completely impractical on the street. It does one thing well, and thats go really fast, be it straight or thru corners. The standard Viper, stands with the Corvette in the "Sport Coupe" category. The GTS-R is purpose built sports/race car, and NOTHING made in the USA currently can compete with it. It is very similar in concept to the Donzi Classics, simplistic, high powered, go-fast. Classics don't have porta-potties, cuddy cabins, or other luxuries. They have what they need to go fast & handle well without the fluff....

I said an argument could be made for the Prowler, while it is only powered by a V-6, its styling cues are definitely sports car, its definition fits that as well, especially if you want to include the MG's & Austin Healy Sprites in your sport car definition.

Sorry, Vette guys, your car is what it is, a "sport coupe" not a sports car. I stand by my original statement, they are heavy, underpowered wannabees. You like them, and thats fine by me. The reality of it is, your prized $55000 Corvettes, are barely faster than the $25000 Mustangs Camaros & Firebirds. They have lots of additional fluff that is not necessary at all. As for the famed ZR-1 Corvettes, Lotus designed that engine, and our buddies over at Mercury Marine built it. It did have alot of HP, 405 to be exact. but it was put in a heavy car, and laden down with tons of fluff... now if GM had built a stripped out, lightweighted ZR-1, then it might actually qualify as a sports car.... they didn't! Too bad. Dollar for dollar its cheaper and faster to hot rod a 5.0 Mustang or a SS Camaro than it is to buy a Vette. But it doesn't make them "sports cars"

Thanks for the new GT-40 pics.... I got to ride in one along time ago back at a SCCA/Shelby convention... I would love to have one of them in my collection....

Woodsy Von Donzi :D :D

[Donzi Jenn]

Hello from Dearborn!

I work for Ford. The GT 40 is currently on the production build schedule for 2/17/04 Job #1. It looks as if Ford is going to follow through! :D

[HyperDonzi]

heres a kit for the Supra tt, only 1300 and look at the benefits!!!

With our Supra BPU™ kit your twin turbo Supra will beat the following cars: Ferrari F355, F360 (Modena), Porsche 911/996TT, Corvette C5's, Corvette Z06's and run head-to-head with a Viper GTS! How does 0-60 in 4.0 seconds sound? Okay, so that is a little slower than a 911/993TT from 0-60. But from 0-120+ it is good night $125,000 Porsche! A decent driven BPU Supra runs 116-122mph in the 1/4 mile, which is 4-8 mph faster than the 911/993TT and is faster than a Lamborghini Diablo, what more can we say? Reliability? Idles and drives like a Lexus, until you romp on it, then it is a MONSTER.

Taken From www.SupraStore.com (http://www.SupraStore.com)

now look at that, maybe 25k total into the car, targa top, leather... And it can run head to head with a viper. Supras are heavy though frown

[1996Z15]

I don't see how you can say that a 405 hp ZO6 is not a sports car. If you want to buy a Mustang GT that's fine but even after all of your mods it's still a Mustang. You and every kid with a few bucks will have the same old platform ponycar.
A "Vette is very much like a Donzi in the respect that it is legendary nad has the performance to back it up...'nuff said.

[OceanCommotion]

Any tidbits to drop on that Mustang sketch Donzi Jenn? If they come out looking like that in 2004, I'll be camped out in the dealer's showroom waiting for one. I don't think the 89' five liter sitting in my garage will be happy about it, but those are the breaks. That thing looks awesome.

[Crazy Horse]

I think I too would be inclined to go for the Mustang. It would be my first American-made car purchased in my last 11 purchases. Ford did a nice job staying true to the T-Bird. But I think they ruined the Jaguar with that entry-level (Taurus) model.

Here's one of my favorite past rides: Check out the 'Dylan' tag.
http://www.donzi.net/photos/mustangcrazyhorse01.jpg

[DonziNUTS]

I have been part of this post over a year now! I have not said much about people's posting. This has taken the cake!!! Putting down America's first sports car that inspired other car manufacturer's to compete with! I am a current owner of two corvettes!(67 Conv. & 86 Conv.)I am also a owner of a 1968 Donzi 18'. Donzi and Corvettes go together like PEAS and CARROTS!!! I love them both and I will never part the two!!
And last for that the person who started that a Corvette is an over weight wanna be sports car....
CORVETTE ZO6 WEIGHT 3,130lbs.

MUSTANG COBRA SVT WEIGHT 3,665lbs.

I think I rest my case!!!

[Ed Donnelly]

Corvettes, Donzis, Harley Davidsons..All American Icons.I have owned a 72 73 &74 Vette..16 Donzi presently a Criterion.. 99 Harley 1200 Sportster presently a 2000 Softtail. I bought a 72 Pantera gts grp 4 in 72, still own it. Topics never to put down.Sex Religion A mans car boat and bike

[OceanCommotion]

Very nice, CrazyHorse. What is that? 69' Mach? I couldn't tell if the little girl in the shot was blocking a stripe or not.

[Crazy Horse]

OceanCommotion, The Mustang is a 1969 Mach I w/ 390 CI w/ 4 speed. Great car.

[HyperDonzi]

Edward Donnely,
What about the remote and foot ball??

Woodsy, I agree on the Prowlers styling, maybe plymouth putting a super charger on it would open more peoples minds to it. I knwo if I had 40k, for a car, I wouldnt buy a 6 cyl Prowler, Id be looking at the 2000 and up Trans-am's (didnt someone put them down earlier?)

[Woodsy]

You guys got my statements all wrong... I didn't meant to turn this into a Mustang Vs. Corvette thread, or a Vette bashing thread. What I meant was, no matter how much you hotrod a Mustang, Camaro/Firebird or Corvette, they still are not true 'Sports cars". A "sports car" by definition is a high performance vehicle that is simplistic in its design, but brutally flawless in its execution. The original Corvette was just that, 2 seats, high hp motor (6 cylinders originally 150hp), 4 speed transmission (no bone-omatic), limited slip rear end, wrapped in a beautifully sculpted body. There were no frills, no extras, no AC and a heater was an option. That my friends is the definition of a purebred sports car. Up until 1968 (when we got the loooong nose "Mako SharK" Vette) the Corvette was a "sports car" competing against other "sports cars" like the Shelby AC Cobra, Jag E-types etc. When in 1968 the emphasis was placed on luxury (it STILL is) instead of performance, the Corvette lost its way. Doesn't make it bad car, or a low quality car, it just disqualifies it from being a true "sports car". Sorry, its just the way it is. The Corvette is a Luxury Sport Coupe. I won't even get into the styling of the Vette, to me, they all look the same, especially the C4 & C5 body styles....

Hyper, don't mean to down you, but we are talking factory production cars, not souped up streetracer wannabee grocery getters. Anybody with enough $$ can hotrod anything. Might be fast, but its not a sports car.

DonziNuts... I wasn't going to reply to your thread, but since you opened the can of worms...

The 2003 Z06 Corvette, this years top dog vette, costs $51000, and comes equipped with a 405hp small block and weighs in at 3118lbs. That gives you a power to weight ratio of 7.7lbs per hp.

The 1995 King of The Hill ZR-1 Corvette cost $60,000 and came equipped with a 405hp small block and weighed in at 3520lbs That gives you a power to weight ratio of 8.7lbs per hp.

The 2003 Mustang Cobra (pay attention here Poodle as the Mustang has gone back to her roots), costs $34,750 and comes equipped with a 385hp small block and weighs in at 3665lbs. That gives you a power to weight ratio 9.5lbs per hp.

The difference in the power to weight ratios is only 1.8lbs per hp. The difference in acceleration tests are astounding, as the Z06 Corvette is only .3 seconds fater 0-60 than the Mustang Cobra. The difference in price is $16,250. The difference in speed boils down to who is driving. A Mustang Cobra will beat a Z06 if the Mustang has the better driver. Thats alot of $$ for a marginally, faster car. Not downing the Corvette, but reality is you can go just as fast in a Mustang Cobra and save $16,000. Neither one are true "sports cars".

Jenn, how much for the new GT-40? Very cool looking!

Poodle, I tend to agree with you about the Viper feeling like a kit car, but most of the true sports cars I have driven have felt the same way.

Woodsy Von Cobra :D :D

[Donzigo]

I've owned a few "toy cars", like Mustangs, Thunderbirds, (when they were cool), 2 Allante's, 1 Ferrari, couple of Eldorados, many many Mark's, and now one 1989 Red Vette, flashy with chrome rims, mufflers, etc. Each has it's own particular personality, for sure; but, the only car that really gets the heads turning on the street is the Red Corvette convertable. If you in the game for the "look", get the Vette.

[DonziNUTS]

Woodsy,
Obviously you did your homework and much accurate. Sounds like you know your cars! You did clear something up which you should have in your first post. Today's cars are "Luxury Sport Cars"...nothing like my 67 327 375hp w/ the sound of factory side exhaust!!!(No AC, etc.) The kids these days don't know what "REAL" horsepower is!!!
Still nothing beats the sound of a BIG Block Chevy and Ford!! I am strickly a Chevy man but My Father was a Ford Teacher for years. (that is why I do not like them..Dad told me the wrongs of ford motors!)So no hard feelings....just had to clear things up....THERE ARE CHEVY FANS AND THERE ARE FORD FANS.....SO WHO WANTS TO BE A MOPAR FAN????? (Got me!!)

[Crazy Horse]

DonziNUTS, best part about this thread is that after a year of your reading posts we finally got you contributing! Welcome.

[harbormaster]

I love my BMW Z3 roadster. My wife does not like the Z3 as much as I do. I guess that makes it a sports car.

[Ranman]

Richard, I never told you how I love chrome wheels, chrome pipes, and shiney red paint did I? Here's my old Pony Car. Although not a convertible, I had no problems turning heads. The nitrous in the trunk took care of the Vettes. :D

John, Love that Mustang pic. One day I'll have have a 68 Fastback big block. It's on my list. :D

Woodsy, I know that being at MIT make you all technical and what not, but this sports car thing is out of control. :) You obviously look at cars a bit differently than most others. Maybe you're a connoisseur. Anyway, To the vast majority of us, the Corvette is a "Sports car". All the cops sure think it is. The fact of whether it is or isn't by your definition, doesn't really matter since most people perceive it to be. Anyway, I see your point and understand, but I think you're a bit to the right on this one.

Ranman - Putting on the nomex.
http://www.offshoreonly.com/gallery/data/500/4798roakmustang1-med.jpg

[HyperDonzi]

Ranman, did you ever top that out? Mom taught me to love Michigan Highways, hug the inside lane and GO! There is that barrier wall over the top of the firebird, all we had to watch for was helicopters :D .

Woodsy, I wasnt saying soup up a grocery soccer mom car and it is now a sports car, but look at the amount of cars that can blow away and supras can be found for under 20k....

[roadtrip se]

Something new in the garage this evening...

http://www.donzi.net/photos/tsomerville43.jpg

[harbormaster]

Some of you guys are talking about the good old days and the original high horse power sports cars. They had the handling of a stick.

In my opinion Todays "Luxury Sport coupes" have the speed AND the handling. The problem is that you have to making big bucks to own them.

I Know. I drove cars in the 70's.

[Crazy Horse]

Todd, Veeeery sweet. I'm very fond of Mustangs, especially the Winni ones.
http://www.donzi.net/photos/smarr01.jpg

[farmer tx]

Tod,
That doesn't look like the utility trailer i saw in there on the way to Eufaula.

[Mark Albers]

Crazy Horse

Where in St. Louis does your brother live ???

Mark 311 :cool:
Sarasota - - - W F O (close to the factory and far from a dream)

[Speed-Racer]

I'd have to agree on your posts Scott and I know you a classic Corvette fan:)
Yeah, the new Mustang looks awesome,it's bringing back the old look or "classic look." I do also think the rims are a bit to big and they need to handle better, maybe so they wouldn't have a turning radius of Titantic!
As for Corvette, It is the All-American sports car, however they do need to change there dash and "chessy" nobs and make it more distinctive then the other GM cars.
My personal favorite a 1968 or 69, T-top Le Mans Blue, w/ blue interior, and 427/L-88 motor. I'll take any of the 63-67's also...

How sweet it is.......and away we go!

[Steven Cohn]

A Ford owner once told me "Anyone who believes the statement, at Ford quality is job #1, is getting a bunch of number 2".

[Crazy Horse]

Mark, my wife is originally from St. Charles. Her family is in St. Charles and in St. Peters.

[Gearhead99]

Madpoodle, good one....

[HyperDonzi]

Madpoodle, good one. I saw a nice looking car today, Take a Audi TT body, Celica ish front end and maybe some other mis matched parts, and you get the new 350Z, not American muscle,not a "sports car" but it would be fun to pull up to school in one :)

[SS18]

Hyper,
How's this for prom ride
http://www.donzi.net/photos/ss18red01.jpg

[HP 600SC]

I have owned a few toys including a ZR-1 Vette,
3 ferrari's and a Lamborghini Countach 4 Valve
but my favorite is still my 99 Viper GTS.
It handles better and is faster and more "drivable" than any of the other ones.
Kathy's vette sit's next to it :D

http://www.donzi.net/photos/viper69.jpg

[SS18]

HP,
Nice car.No awesome car always like them but six speed only tough for us with light every four blocks 25 mph in summer.Now the parkway is a different story.Any real estate deals down your area looking to relocate to 365 boating and shorts season?

SS18/aka 292 Fastech

[HyperDonzi]

ss18, Nice red paint, Daytime running lights, all in all, NICE TAURUS!!!!! wink I would probably never make it to prom in that vette.... :D