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Cuda
11-04-2001, 06:28 PM
Does anyone know if there is a site similar to this for Formula boats?

Formula Jr
11-04-2001, 07:07 PM
I've looked, there isn't one dealing with older formulas. Just the newer stuff and there is very little content. I remember one site where I had to argue with a guy over whether or not Aronow had anything to do with the company. :) Too bad cause Wynne went on to design several of the Post-Aronow Formulas.

harbormaster
11-04-2001, 08:38 PM
That is why I put this forum here...

Get enough of your formula friends here and I will open a formula forum.

Cuda
11-06-2001, 03:17 PM
Hey Jr, those are some neat pictures on your home page. What is the story of the jr? I had never seen one before. Where is Jasper? I used to live outside Portlandm near Oregon City.

Formula Jr
11-06-2001, 11:51 PM
Huuuuummmmmm, what is the story on the Jr?....
Oky, Oky I'm laughing too hard to type so I'll come back in a few....


My Applogies in advance to Brownie, if I mangle the history once again.....

In the beginning, there was Formula.....

When Donald Joel Aronow, landed in Miami in 1961 after retiring from his construction business in New Jersey, he became facinated with the local racing crowd, then dominated by Dick Bertram. Don wanted a piece of this action, so he created a company called Formula Marine in 1963 for the sole purpose of making race boats. Formula was really a loose association of people interested in race boats and was conceived more as a tax shelter than a production company. One of the people involved was a fellow named Jim Wynne. Wynne had already been racing for about three years. His first boats were Ray Hunt designs, but by '62 he was racing a boat of his own design called the Wyn-Mil. He had a degree in Mechanical Engineering was a lead engineer at Lake X and was a patent holder for an improvement to sterndrives which he had licenced to Volvo - because merc thought his system would never work. Jim didn't actually "invent" this improvement but we'll leave that for later.
Jim and his partner Walt Walters designed one boat for the "formula" company. This being the famous 233 which used his sterndrive system, and was, as far as I can tell, his very first production boat design. Formula had two models at the time, the other being a 27 footer designed by Peter Guerke which was an inboard. Jim continued refining and racing his little 17 foot, single outdrive, deep Vee which he called the Wyn-Mil II. This was a wooden race boat, and its my opinion that it was never intended for fiberglass mass production. In any case, Formula Marine was sold to the Thunderbird Marine company, run by Dick Genth in 1964. By 1965, Aronow's new company, "Donzi'" was exploding with brand new Wynne designs: A little 16, which was heavily influenced by the design of the Wyn-Mil II, two 19 footers and the Donzi 28. In 1966, Wynne and Aronow had a fallingout of sorts. This involved the winning of a race by Wynne and a t-shirt with the number 009 on it. And Wynne went on to design boats for Genth's Thunderbird Formula Company. Its here that I think Wynne handed over the Wyn-Mil design to Genth. By 66, Genth could see the demand for a small deep vee, sterndrive design. So the Wyn-Mil was used as the basis for a mold to quickly create the Formula Jr as a boat to compete with the Donzi 16. I once thought there were 1965 Jrs, but now I'm not sure of this. So, 1966 appears to be the actual first year of production and ironically, they came with Merc Drives and engines. So even though the Sport-Skier 16 production boat pre-dates the Jr, the design of the Jr in the form of the Wyn-Mil predates the 16 and, like the 233, still has features that show Ray Hunt's influence on Wynne's early work. If you compare the strake to chine patterns of the Jr and 233, you'll see they are more Bertram than Donzi. Though the 16 was influenced by the Jr, the two boats are completely different. The Jr is much lighter in construction than the 16 and not in the same league of quality. But, what I really love about the boat, is it is Wynne's first small run-about design (possibly his very first design of all); a design he raced in. And everytime I launch off a wave, I know it feels close to the same as it did for him.

Jasper is exactly 9 miles from the absolute center of nowhere. :)

Jersey Devil
11-07-2001, 11:36 AM
Thanks for the history, there was a lot I did not know about. Where did you get this info is it in a book that I could buy?
Tom 1985 Formula 23'

smoothie
11-07-2001, 05:26 PM
Hey Jr, do you have some pics posted of your
boat? Sure would like to see it!

Formula Jr
11-07-2001, 07:18 PM
There isn't really a book with THIS history. The sources are from many different places, including Michael Aronow's "King of Thunderboat Row" and Allan Brown (Brownie.) Old ads, articles and the Book "Heart of Glass" by Daniel Spurr. I gotta get a copy of "Searace" one of these days.

Look in the registry under Saffell for some old pics.

Sagbay32
11-07-2001, 08:47 PM
As a matter of fact I read all of this info (or close to it) last night in the book Blue Thunder. I just got it and it really has been great so far. I love the history.

Formula Jr
11-07-2001, 09:23 PM
Really? Whats the ISBN on that book. I'll go order it.

Sagbay32
11-08-2001, 01:46 PM
ISBN.......0-671-66321-6
Blue Thunder by Thomas Burdick & Charlene Mitchell. Printed in 1990. I think it is out of print. They wanted over $100.00 on a usaed book site for it. :(

Cuda
11-12-2001, 09:56 PM
Thanks for the history. How many Jr's did they make? I think it would be cool to own a piece of history like that.

I am in the process of refurbishing a 1981 Formula 20 SC. I love the lines and the ride of this boat. I have it at the mechanic's putting a 330 hp 5.7 in it. He is waiting for me to bring him another outdrive, since we don't think the original type 1 will handle the increase in power. I have narrowed it down to two drives I am looking at. One is an alpha 1 just rebuilt with heavy duty upper gears, the other is a SS drive, with the shorter shaft. Do you think the shorter shaft has any drawbacks? The SS is more expensive, and I am trying to decide if it is worth the extra.

Formula Jr
11-13-2001, 12:10 AM
Its hard for me to guess production numbers on the Jr. (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell214.jpg) They were made from 66 or 65 to at least 71. Thats six or seven years of production by a LARGE company. I know of at least 20 boats out there so production must have been in the high hundreds. They are not rare by any means.

Forrest says go with the SS. And since I know 1/10th as much as he does about such things, I'd go with the SS. :D

Cuda
11-14-2001, 07:09 PM
Just made the deal for the SS drive. I am hoping to have it shipped here by next week. I will post how it works out.

Frank G
11-19-2001, 06:59 PM
Iam the proud owner of a 1973 233 I have for 21 years I think ITs on of the best riding 23 footers ever built I love it like the day I got her how about that FORMULA forum

ALLAN BROWN
11-20-2001, 11:49 AM
Damn, Owen, you got it right!

AB

Formula Jr
11-20-2001, 09:36 PM
Cool. Here I was, thinking you were going to come back and rightously tell me I was full of crap..... :)

Now I know where to look. Many, many thanks......
Its still a mind blow that we get to talk to the "Great Ones."

Cuda
11-21-2001, 10:26 PM
Hey Frank G, what kind of power do you have in the 233? I agree that my 20 is the best riding boat of its size I have ever ridden in.

freckles
12-01-2001, 07:04 AM
We have a 1989 272 SR1. We've had it for two years now and love it. This past year, we put 100 hours on it. Solid, well-riding boat. Anyone else?

Cuda
12-01-2001, 09:00 PM
What kind of power do you have in the 271?

freckles
12-02-2001, 07:30 PM
We have twin 7.4L/Bravos. Everything's stock. Top speed is ~ 65 mph on GPS.

CBD2
12-12-2001, 05:41 PM
Hi Guys,
You can add me to your Formula lovers page. Can't find anyone talking about on the net anywhere. I have had two Thunderbirds and I believe they are great boats built to last. First boat was a 242LS 1988, with single Magnum. Any one could handle this boat with ease at 65 mph.

CBD2

turbo2256
12-12-2001, 07:37 PM
A hint on the SS drive if it places the prop too far out of the water try a surface piercing prop on it

Cuda
12-12-2001, 09:48 PM
I should know by next weekend how the SS drive is going to work out. I went to the mech's yesterday. There are several things that were missing from the transom assembly or didn't mate up with the engine. He suggested I switch from 3 inch risers to 4 inch. I hope this baby will fly!

Cuda
12-12-2001, 09:53 PM
CBD2, I really like the LS series. I was actually looking for a 206LS when I came across the 20 SC. I figured 20 foot was about the maximum size boat that I could get decent performance from a single small block. BTW, while they had the transom assembly out, I checked out the transom wood, and it is rock solid after 20 years. These boats are built tough!

SecretF233
12-17-2001, 03:18 PM
Hello Everyone How's it been Ya Lets Talk Formula!! I Still Have not figured out the 78 OMC Stringer Drive on my 80 F233. I'm About to give up and fill the hole and get a V/P Any Thought or sug's. But the rest of the Boat is Ship Shape I Have managed to colect some real nice C/Add's from the late 70's & Waste an entire summer in the prosses o well.