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View Full Version : Cobalt Semi-V and Flat bottom V-drives...



Craig
10-17-2002, 06:34 PM
Here are two other models pictured in the 1970 (+-) catalog. No resemblence to Donzi's for these 2 models. In fact, these two were also copied from another company's models. The XV-100 and XF-100 are both copies of an apparent "speed boat" company called "Continental." Anybody ever heard of them? I haven't. I'm not really sure if these boats were ever actually produced by Cobalt. They were in the catalog, again as artist renderings (same as the Donzi copy models shown (see Pristine Cobalt Purchase post) in the cataolg. Anyway they were both 18 footers. The XV-100 was the semi-V and the XF-100 was a flat bottom. Both were offered with either a 327 Chevrolet or a 455 Oldsmoblie. Wether or not they made it to production, they still make some awesome pics. I have seen lots of V-drive boats that look similar. Catalog says they each only weigh 725 lbs! I assume thats without and engine.

http://www.donzi.net/photos/CZimmermann45.jpg

AND...
http://www.donzi.net/photos/CZimmermann44.jpg

RH
10-17-2002, 08:32 PM
Cool post Craig! I had no idea that Cobalt had offered these two models. When they got there start, I beleive that they did produce some boat styles that were different from the niche that they have made for themselves today. In the 70's, they bought some tri hull molds that were making the rounds in those days. Now they have the distinguished reputation of building one of the finest quality luxury family boats industry.
RH

Craig
10-18-2002, 08:25 AM
I didn't know the tri-hulls were also a copied design. They give credit to "Continental" in the the old catalog, unlike Donzi which they apparently just copied without permission. But I had always thought the 2 tri-hulls were their own. Guess not. At some point Jim Wynn designed some Cobalts (must've been a little later). Its interesting when you look at various hulls from various companies. Many look real similar. Here's the two old Cobalt tri-hulls from the same catalog; not what you'd call performance boats by a long shot, but interesting:
the Tri-Hull 15
http://www.donzi.net/photos/CZimmermann42.jpg
and the Tri-Hull 18
http://www.donzi.net/photos/CZimmermann43.jpg

Craig
10-22-2002, 11:17 AM
So anybody remember a boat company named "Continental" that made V-drives like the red and blue boats above????? I done web searches and can't find anything.

FlatRacer, aka BarrelBack
10-28-2002, 03:30 PM
The name "Continental" doesn't ring any flatbottom bells, but the renderings sure do look like Mandellas. Tiger also produced hulls that were splashed from a Mandella.
Go to the video store and rent the old Elvis movie "Clambake". There you'll see Lou Brummett's Mandella "Rawhide", an endurance racer from the days of Miami Marine Statium (God, I feel old) used as Elvis' ride in the movie. Jeez, he just got to play with the koolest props in those movies, didn't he?

Eric

Craig
10-29-2002, 07:34 AM
Flat Racer - There you are! I figured (was hoping) I'd get a response from you if you saw my post. I assumed from your name and Avatar image, you were also into this style of craft. Mandellas - Hmmm? That's interesting. I have had "Clambake" for years. Went searching for it just because as a kid I remembered the extensive boat race footage. It is too cool. I had kind of guessed that maybe the "Rawhide" was an old Hallet. Now I know. The boat footage is cool and I liked Elvis, but some of the dialog is so funny. Like when they're working on building the engine and his helper gets something like a crankshaft and a valve cover mixed up. Too funny! How about the "Scarlet Lady" (movie name of Bill Bixby's boat)? Any idea what kind and whose that boat that was? That boat was mighty sharp too! Anyway thanks for adding to my V-drive knowledge. Still don't really know if Cobalt actually got around to making either of the 2 pictured above, or the XV-500 (Donzi 18-2+3) copy for that matter. Haven't seen any of those 3 models. I love the deep V Classic Donzi stuff, but I'd love to have an old flat bottom V-drive project some day. They're awesome. Is your Avatar image you?

FlatRacer, aka BarrelBack
11-01-2002, 04:33 PM
Craig, I don't remember what kind of hull Bill Bixby "drove" in the movie. It's been awhile since I saw it last. I'll have to rent it and get back to you on that one.
As far as recreational flats go, there ain't one! Flats look great, sound great and run like they're on rails. But, the ride is HARSH.
They like to run fast. Mine's not happy unless it's going at least 80. Below that it pounds, porpoises, and if there's no chop it sticks to the water hunting and wandering. Oh, yeah, and every boat wake you hit is a new experience in spinal compression :mad:
If the boat is somewhat older (aka heavier) these problems are somewhat alleviated.
My advice for buying a "recreational" flat is to get something cheap and heavy, like a Rayson Craft, Mandella, Nordic, Sanger. Don't waste your money on a state of the art lightweight racer. They're three times the price and really get punted around by cruiser wakes.
Better yet, find a GN type or semi-V hull with a v-drive. They're a bit more expensive and harder to find, but worth it in the ride dept.
Oh, yeah, the avatar is me. www.geocities.com/kool_toyz (http://www.geocities.com/kool_toyz)

Eric :D

farmer tx
11-02-2002, 12:10 AM
FLATRACER
For the very same reasons we now own a Donzi.
We still have our 66-Stevens, 440Chry. with 413 heads.Seventeen years ago when I completed the restoration it was a blast. Hell of a ski boat too. Seems like there is more boat traffic now and bigger wakes, it could just be age.
When the conditions are right you can't beat the acceleration and ride, but thats not very often.
Love those v-drives,

wintersux
11-02-2002, 08:14 AM
The flatbottoms have a totally different feel/drive/and ride. They are harsh in traffic or a rough day, but still fun. I have a Raysoncraft v-drive. On a rough day you can just put it on plane around 1700rpm and roll through the waves or punch it and beat yourself up. It is a fun second boat to a Donzi, but I find that I use the Rayson less and less in my old age. There was a continental mentioned on the v drive web site. It is a really good site to visit if you are interested. www.v-driveboat.com (http://www.v-driveboat.com) AzDon's website has links and articles for v-drivers.

FlatRacer, aka BarrelBack
11-03-2002, 01:14 PM
Yeah Mark, I hear ya. I built a mild 396 to throw in the Bezer so I could get more use out of the boat. Took it out a couple times on the lake. Was barely enough power to push the hull into the sweet spot. Spent most of the time getting tossed around.
One day, after punishing myself on the lake, I saw a guy in a 18' barrel-back V-drive Donzi, so I flagged him down to bum a ride. That boat just "gooshed" through waves that had earlier resulted in pain. The ride was heavenly.
Next day I yanked the 396 out of the flat and put it up for sale!
And so the hunt for the vintage 18' began. :D

FR

farmer tx
11-03-2002, 07:25 PM
F.R.
I spent a lot of time at AOTHII looking at and taking pics of John& Kathy Shahbas' WA-LO.
Also got to run with them at the chopper photo shoot. I was as green as thier boat was with envy. I'll tell you what, anybody who hasn't ever taken a ride in a v-drive(and there are a lot) they don't know what they are missing. That Hornet had the most cpisp sound and unbelievable ride attitude I have seen in a long time. That boat really moved.
I don't know how many Donzi v-drives were mfg. but I wouldn't mind stumbling over one to restore.
There has got to be a huge difference in the way a v-bottom hull rides compared to a flat.
Later,

Craig
11-04-2002, 11:32 AM
Madpoodle - Wasn't close to the racing like you and some of these other guys, but I do have a couple pics my Dad took of me when I was a kid standing by the Atlas Van Lines Unlimited Hydroplane at what I think was called the President's Cup Regatta near Washington D.C.. What a cool boat. I think Bill Muncey was the driver. Have to dig up a picture and post.

FlatRacer, aka BarrelBack
11-05-2002, 02:50 PM
Poodle: I'm a casual acquaintance of Keith Brayer, Curt's son. I got a ride in Dancing Bear at one of the Clayton, NY raceboat shows. I gave Keith an old Hallcraft V-drive.
Oh Mona. Now there's a skiboat with some history! I met Duff a couple times, even raced against him. Nice guy. He made the race seat for my Bezer.
I'll say it again. I was born ten years too late. Being a tail end baby boomer, I missed out on what I once heard referred to as "The Golden Age Of Just About Everything", the period from 1950 to 1975! By the time I was old enough to be able to participate in all the things I dreamed about as a kid, the party was over! I don't know who to blame for that but I'm sure the lawyers are responsible for most of it.
Racers like Duff Daily, Julian Pettingil, Muncey, Aronow, will never be seen again. Those days are just gone, and they're not coming back. That's all there is to it. :p

FR :mad:

Craig
11-06-2002, 07:01 AM
Hey wintersux, I see the v-drive site (pretty cool site), but I couldn't find the mention of the Continental; that site is a little harder to navigate and not as well organized as this one. Do you recall where it is exactly?

RH
12-29-2002, 10:08 PM
Madpoodle, the mention of Dancing Bear brings back memories for me as well here in the middle of Iowa corn! I was invited to Florida in the spring of 1995 to join in on the St. Johns River Cruise from Jacksonville to Sanford and then the weekend at Mt. Dora for the ACBS Wooden Boat show. Curt Brayer piloted Dancing Bear for the week. What a riot to watch him run. HE and his wife wore earmuffs when they were underway. I was running in a tame 1937 Chris Craft delux runabout. Really enjoyed talking with some of the gentleman. If my memory serves me correctly, I spoke with a gentleman that I think was Bob Cox from the Miami area and he mentioned that he had been a Donzi Dealer in the early days. He made the run that week in a launch with a one lunger. Does his name sound familiar>
RH

FlatRacer, aka BarrelBack
01-26-2003, 10:59 AM
Hey Craig,

Bingo! I just got a video from a guy in Washington state who runs a nostalgic flatbottom circle racing club.
In the video is some footage of a swap meet / boat show where there was a real nice looking white Mandella. As the camera panned over the boat, I saw the sign which clearly said Continental/Mandella.
So there is definitely a connection there. I'm guessing that either:
A-Lou Brummet built boats under contract for Cobalt to be marketed as Cobalt Continentals
B-Cobalt splashed a Mandella hull
C-Cobalt but a set of molds from Brummet
I'll do some further research and try to come up with an answer.

FR

Craig
01-27-2003, 11:03 AM
Interesting. I suspect Cobalt had some form of permission to do these boats as they do mention the hulls as previously being under the name "Continental" (unlike the Donzi name, which is never mentioned in the Cobalt literature). I'd be interested in anything else you can find out. I like the looks of the Mandellas (such as the one you mentioned in Clambake (Elvis's "Rawhide")). One thing I'm still not sure of is whether Cobalt actually got around to producing any of the boats. Have never seen one other than these catalog artist renderings. As time goes by I'm getting more and more interested in the old flat bottom or semi-V V-drives. If you have smooth water to play on, they just seem awful coo! Have only ever been around a few.

FlatRacer, aka BarrelBack
01-28-2003, 03:32 PM
Craig:

Go over to the V-Drive forum at HotBoat.net, or click on this link:
http://free.hotboat.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=forum;f=8
Contact a guy named Boyd Schnell. He posts under the screen name Circle Jerk. He says he has a lot more footage of that white Continental/Mandella. I'm sure he'd gladly whip off a copy for you for the cost of the tape and shipping.
I have some old race footage from 1980 of a Mandella racing in the Super Stock class in, I believe it was Raleigh.
There are plenty of them still around. I think they were well built. Lou Brummet was into endurance racing, so they tended to be built to last. They weren't the fastest sprint boats. I think that's because the were designed and built when endurance racing was at the height of its popularity in the '60s. Sprint boat racing came on strong later on in the '70s.
I've already cast a net into the water looking for info about the Cobalt-Continental-Mandella connection. Check out this thread:
http://free.hotboat.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=001876
We'll see what we can catch.
That is a Cobalt you have isn't it? I think you need to find that Continental, or another one and buy it. You should be the curator of the Cobalt splash museum! You could become the Scott Pearson of Cobalt splashes!
Good luck and happy hunting! Let me know what you find.

Eric

Craig
01-29-2003, 11:52 AM
Eric,

Thanks for the continuing info.. I might have to contact Mr. Schnell (that's funny if he's a racer; I'm pretty sure "schnell" means "fast" in German!). Anyway, I'd like to see a pic or video of that boat. Yes my boat is a Cobalt. It was there to the left (Avitar Image), but it ain't showing up on my 'puter all of a sudden-- what happened?? Did you see the pics of the Mandella's on the V-drive site? Awesome looking. Check out the post called "Does Anyone Have Any Pics of A Mandella?" Two nice pics are there. The first one, with the fancy deck graphics, looks very much like the Clambake - Rawhide, and the second one looks very much like the one in the Cobalt catalog. Pretty cool!! Yeah, if I could find a boat similar, I'd be interested. I know this might be goofy, but I like the thru transom exhaust on them. Both look great, but I play on a lake that I don't think allows over the transom exhaust (I think only wet manifold, thru transom exhaust -- if I have my terms right.)). I think I am, as you said, slowly becoming the Cobalt splash authority without really trying. I had a lot of cool stuff on a not so hot web site. A free one that started charging after I set it up so I sort of quit. Still there, but incomplete and not organized very well. Had a lot of pics too of the Donzi copies as well as these V-drives many of which were linked to Photo-point (or whatever it was called) and that is now gone. Hey -- Harbormaster warned us! May have to give it another go when I have time.

FlatRacer, aka BarrelBack
01-29-2003, 03:39 PM
Yeah, there's a lot to be said for the thru-hull exhaust. It does have a cleaner look, and is "style correct" for a pleasure/ski flatbottom.
Brings me back to the time when the term "skiboat" meant something a bit sleeker than a Ski Nautique. Also there are a lot less hassles with the marine police, plus you can still hear yourself think!
Seriously, ask Circle Jerk to make you a copy of the Continental footage. I'm sure he'd be happy to.

Later,
FR

FlatRacer, aka BarrelBack
01-29-2003, 04:46 PM
Craig:

The fog is lifting on the Continental story over at the HotBoat site as we speak! Okay, as we type.
All we need to know now is how to distinguish the hulls that Cobalt built from those that Continental built.
I truly believe it's your destiny to own a Cobalt built Continental Mandella splash!!! Maybe even one of each bottom type! :D

FR cistineb cool!

P.S. Your wife is gonna hate me, isn't she?

Craig
01-30-2003, 07:04 AM
Hmmm, how was that again "a Cobalt built Continental Mandella Splash????" I'm not sure. It's hard enough to explain clearly "what" the boat I have now actually is, being a copy another company's boat, let alone explaining... Uh, it's a copy of a boat made by a company that copied a boat made by another company that copied a boat made by... you see my point.

I've seen the Hot Boat posts -- interesting. Tried to post there, but had trouble with register and login. I'll try again later. I was going to put in my 2 cents about comments of the boats in question being heavy. I found that interesting because the old Cobalt catalog specs on the boats pictured above put their weight at only 725 lbs. (I assume that has to be w/o engine) I thought that was exceptionally light??

Also with regard to whether they were "unapproved" "splashes", I suspect they weren't since they actually name Continental in the Cobalt catalog. They didn't do that with Donzi. Specifically, with Continental, they make reference to the Cobalt boat being a "Continental" design, but with the Donzi copies, they then claimed the boats to be "Cobalt" designs. Still amazes me that they did that. Now the question is "did Mandella know about this at the time?" They (Mandella) were apparently still making boats in the late 70's and this was all happening in the late 60's.

As far as I.D.-ing a "Cobalt built Continental Mandella" (I like it!); the Cobalt catalog shows one of the standard large Cobalt stainless steel name plate shields on the decks near the cockpit of these boats (see pics above). Those shields used, I think, 4 holes (2 little (diagonal corners) with small posts and clips, and 2 large (opposite corners) for phillips head screws) to secure them to the boat. If other serial number name plates (under deck, etc.) are gone, checking for evidence of thos holes may prove interesting.
Another Boat????

We actually talk (occassionally) about a 2nd boat, but usually in terms of something bigger with more room. I can see me now talking to my dear understanding wife about buying another sardine can sized fast boat. Hmmmmm.....