Stepped Hulls

[rktomp]

I recently posted a question on fastboats about the different handling of a stepped hull. I am upgrading from the Classic 16 to a 21 to 22ft boat. I am interested in a 22zx, however, I have been told there are dangerous handling characteristics with this boat, as well as lawsuits..Do these problems carry over to the 21ft open? The reason I am asking these pertinent questions, is, the 22zx I am looking at was demoed by a dealer who had no experience in high performance boats, the customer either, they took the boat out, lost control of it, fliped it, and sank it. The customer was Life Flighted to the hospital..If these stepped hulls are a problem,,then I will find a nice use Scarab.

[Shanghied Again]

I owned one of the fastest 22Zxs around, A step hull is dangerous if you dont know how to handle them. No different then any other ventilated bottom. The trick in a step bottom is never trim in when turning or at hi speed. Always keep your bota trimmed out. With a V bottom you are use to trimming in on a turn on a step its the opposite. Also never take a turn to steep. Other then that a step 22ZX will out run out handle and take much bigger water then a 22 Scarab. I use to run in Major Poker runs with mine and kept up with all the big boys.

[CDeal1]

How do you know when your boat is trimmed out properly? I too as looking for a 22ZX and have the same concerns. When you take off do you have the trim all the way down and then start bumping it up as you get on plane?

[rktomp]

Frank, I would like to talk to you. Could you give me your home phone # and I will call you this weekend.
Bob

[Shanghied Again]

You will know when you trimmed to far when your speed falls and you sound like your slipping on the prop. Ussally on a 22Zx between 1/4 and 1/2 trim is fine anything more then that you will blow out. You get the feel of a step bottom just have a little respect for them and once you get use to the ride you will never own anything else.

Hey Poodle: Don't forget little Griz we both had superchargers. I just had head work and headers that made mine a hair faster

[BigGrizzly]

Yes Poodle One of the Fastest, lilGriz owns the other one. I have diven both hulls under the same conditions with aprox. the same power--that is stock 315 in both boats and later blower motors in both boats. Like Frank says in the turns is the only concern. Now in reality that is a concern in any boat at speed. In all fairness it isn't just because of the step only! That hull also has speed rails built in to the aft lateral lifting strake which grabs real hard in a turn. I put speed rails on my Corsican also and it now turns difrferently. Before you ask there was no speed difference just some better handling on re-entry and Higher better cruise. At full throttle they are out of the water.

[z22owner]

I own a '99 Z22 Open bow and I have never felt the slightest bit uneasy with its handling. I feel I run it as hard as the boys with the true inboard ski boats in turns and it is as stable as theirs. I just know its limits. Just like any sports car you have to know its limits. I would never go back to a flat bottom.

Z22owner

[integra]

I'm sorry since I'll soon ride too my first Stepped hull, I'm very interested in this subject...

what do you mean in "trim in"?? Does it mean to put the drive down on water, or up?? I'm sorry but English is a bit different from italian.. :)

And how to use std tabs??

Thank you, FEDE

[Tony]

FEDE,

"Trim in" means to tuck the drive in tight to the transom, or "lower" the outdrive. This is good for getting on plane quicker, but once there you want to raise the drive "up" some for better efficiency and speed.

Standard tabs will help keep the boat level, and sometimes eliminate "porpoising". I assume your dealer will go over all this and more upon delivery...

(Warning...I don't know "jack sh%t" about 28's or stepped hulls...just what I read here. So, take what I say with a "grain of salt", so to speak!)

Your english is fine, don't forget to post pics a.s.a.p. Arivi derchi!

[integra]

Thanx very much Tony!!

The problem is that I've not any dealer involved!! I have to pick up my Donzi from the ship and put it on water!! :D

Then I'm looking here for any information about it, because I'll have to do all myself!! :)

[Shanghied Again]

Integra, You are buying a 26Zx they are not so trim sensitive, keep the trim at 1/4 when you go into a turn if you have Kiekeifer gauge keep your trim at 4. Your 26 runs the fastest almost trimmed out all the way. you have a twin step but its not an aggressive twin step. Great handeling boat

[integra]

Thank you Frank!

So I will keep it trimmed out every time!! then I'll make some experiments!! wink

[Ed Donnelly]

Integra. If you are willing to pay the airfare,accomodations,and a few bela donas, I'm sure there are a few gents here that will make the trip and teach you first hand..Edwardo Donnelly

[integra]

:D :D :cool:

[Dax McDavid]

I have a X-18 and a 2000 22zx (which I will sell) and have to admit the stepped hull is very fast but I agree that it can be dangerous if you don't know what you are doing. All you have to remember is trim the nose up on turns and it is a very safe, fun, and fast boat. However, if the nose is trimmed down on turns, it tends to bite to much and it wants to throw the back around too fast.

[fasttrucker]

Donzi does not sell the 22zx with big power anymore,that tells you something, lots of trial lawyers are not happy.The 26+up donzis are easyer to drive.Harder to make mistakes and spin out.

[integra]

In conclusion, to have a little summary: :)

When I'm riding fast, for example 60 mph, and want to turn, what should I do??

- Trim out??
- Go slower??
- Not to touch trim and only turn??

:confused:

[Shanghied Again]

Big blocks on the 22 were not dropped for that reason They were dropped because the expense of the 22ZX The same reason why they dropped the Scorpion last year. The only 22 that could sell in the mid 40s to 50 area is the Classic with a big block. A full dressed 22ZX with a big block would be over 60,000
Donzi still has spin outs with the 22ZX with the 350s (Driver Error) If Donzi was having these mega suits the 22ZX would have been dropped.
There were several yes, So did Scarab,Sonic,HTM, Carrara,Checkmate, Heck Baja had more accidents with there 22 Hammer then Donzi did with the 22ZX If you have taken notice the Hammer is gone.
When I talked to Steve Simon about the 22 and when he showed me how much it cost to build the 22ZX with a big block, it was not much less then a 26. And thats the story behind the 22ZX.
Steve Simon new me and my boat when I talked with him about supercharging he didn't try to talk me out of it, If he felt the boat couldn't have handled it he would have made me sign a waiver. The fastest unrecorded speed of that boat was 89 mph when we put a 7 pulley on.

[Bryan Tuvell 33ZX]

May of 2001, my old 99 22ZX at AOTH I, 9am Saturday morning.
(350 MAG).
I was at 45 to 50mph speedo, not trimmed enough, learned that lesson fast, no one hurt, blink of an eye action, I did get wet!
The 26 is not as sensitive.
I see no harm in posting the pic to help educate other boaters.
Bryan

http://www.donzi.net/photos/spin.jpg

[integra]

Great and spectacular photo!! eek!


Frank: the 377 Scorpion is still available for the 22 ZX, since I was buying it new with this engine! :)

[Shanghied Again]

They will still but the Scorpion on request. The boat runs 72mph with the Scorpion but she has a big price tag

[BabyDonzi]

Brian, same pic, different place! When the ZX was new to me, same thing. Once I wiped the salt water from my face, tried to remember if there was someone sitting next to me at the time, and then prying her off the sand bar, I learned in a heart beat! Now, I can hook her at 50 and smile doing it!

[integra]

72 mph?? It's very fast, in Donzi thy told me 65-70 with 377...

My 26 won't be so fast... :rolleyes:

wink

[Shanghied Again]

Your 26 will run a solid 65mph but if you running the Med, The 22ZX will never handle that water. If you ever fly to NY call me , I will take you out onmy 26 and show you how to take her to the limit. I loved my 22ZX but as fast as she was I would not give up the comfort of my 26 two different boats.

[Bryan Tuvell 33ZX]

BabyDonzi: I hear ya pal, once was enough, now I have the seat of the pants feel for possible issues, NO issues with the 26ZX, and actually when we have hit really big water Digger and Nancy just grin....

Integra: Don't get wrapped up in the numbers, trust me, top end MPH will wear on the heart and the motor/drive! Go for ride not speed.
As Frank said, no comparing ride, between the 22 and 26.
Bryan

[rktomp]

Frank, I dont remember if I asked you if there is a stepped hull design difference between the z-22 and the zx-22. If so how does it effect ride, speed, and handling..
Bob Tompkins

[integra]

Frank: thanx a lot, I hope I'll be able to come as soon as possible... :)


Bryan: You're so right, but I was only surprised about top end of 22!!

I know ride is very important, I'll love my 26 on evry kind of sea! wink

[Shanghied Again]

Hi Bob, Yes there is a big difference, The step hull in the Z22 doesn,t make a big difference in the ride stepped or not. The boat doesn't have have a big v like the ZX and set up like the ZX the Zx is more of a Performance hull. the 22Z with a 350 mag will run in the 50s, a 22Zx with the 350 mag runs in the low 60s.

[rktomp]

Frank, what about the classic 22, good ride, stable, fast?

[Dr. Dan]

:p O.K....my turn! RK...The 22 Classic is more of a hull that you literally "Pilot" or "Fly" as you get your Seat Time in a Classic ...like in any Hull.... you will learn the best Trim Settings, and Tabs to calm things down in Crazy Water.... Liz and I own a 22 Classic and boat mostly in the Upper Chesapeake Bay. We enjoy the Classic alot, but it is as different from a ZX ride as a Vette is to a NorthStar Powered Seville.
The Zx is a higher Freeboard Ride and inherently a larger feel....The Classic is very much like a Vette...unmistakenly Sexy,very stable....but both have their limits...like anything. wink I would suggest you drive both, attend a Donzi Gathering and bum some rides...the owners will stumble and fall all over themselves to show you the differences....Good Luck!

:cool: Doc

[MOP]

Excellent analogy Dan!

True rides are in abundance, most event photos even show others driving the owners boats!

Check this post http://www.donzi.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=008875 look at photo #3 all happy interlopers, owner no where in sight!

[rktomp]

Thanks for the input,,I currently have a wild ride,,1995 Classic 16,,V-8 powered! Need a bigger boat,,It scares the @@@@ out of my wife at top end..
Bob

[JimG]

Rktomp, it scared the hell outa me too! :D

JimG

[undertaker]

Well said Dr., I can say Dr. Dan does know how to pilot his 22 classic I have attended a few events with him and I take his word as gospel, he knows his 22 classics!!!! :) :)

PS Dr. I hope you and Liz have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, and I hope Liz gets you what you wanted for Christmas. wink wink

[rktomp]

Sorry, Jim!

[z22owner]

I want to address Frank C's comment about the difference in hulls between the Z22 and the 22ZX. Correct me if I am wrong, but the deadrise (deep V) you are referring to is 21degrees in the Z22 and 22degree in the 22ZX, isnt it? What difference is one degree make in the scheme of achieving top end?

I have a '99 that is running the 350 EFI (260 hp) with a 22P Bravo and run consistantly 59-61 GPS. I have a friend with a 22ZX with the 350 MAG running 64 with a 24P Bravo.

In conclusion, give my boat the Mag motor and a higher pitch prop and I will be running easily in the mid to upper sixtys.

Z22owner

[Rootsy]

:( eek! :(

Rootsy - Fearless wink

[bakker]

The answer to your steped hull problem is to buy my 97 22zx witch does not have a stepped hull. It is listed in the donzi boats for sale forum under 9722zx

[Shanghied Again]

1 Degree in a boat hull is the same as saying 1ft in a length. They are two differnt hulls The 22Z is a semi Performance same hull that was used for Cobalt, Chris Craft, The 22ZX is a Performance hull just like the 22 Classic is built on a 24 Degree the ride is completely different then a ZX. The classic can cut through water and turn much sharper then a 22ZX and thats before there was a step. A conventional bottom is 18-20 deadrise why does your boat run better then a Wellcraft with a 20 degree bottom? Its only 1" Two its the way a bottom is made chines,pad,strakes,
Thats why there was a big difference in price between the Zx and the Z almoxt 10,000 and my friend has a Scorpion 22Z he has a 22Pitch prop and runs 66 but its not the same ride. The Z is a great boat but it was made for Family and Semi Performance, Not all out Performance.
I owned a 22ZX and loved the boat but the 22Classic was a pure thrill ride that gives you that Cigarette ride and feel.
The day comes I ever down size the next boat I would get would be a 22 Classic..