16' V Drive Running and Holman Moody Questions

[rustnrot]

I got the 16' V drive up and running (the one I picked up at Scott Pearson's during the snowstorm). Word was it had a "knock" but ran. It does run (at least on the trailer) well and I think the "knock" is a valve or lifter problem not a main bearing but I need to lake test under load to be sure.

Poking around I found a Holman Moody ID plate affixed to the bellhousing (the manifolds have been replaced with Glenwood). I need to get the serial numbers for you all but IIRC it said 9.5:1 CR, 225 hp? Anyway, is there a possibility this was a Holman Moody setup? The block may not be original anymore (289 I think), the intake is an Edelbrock and the carb a newer Holley automotive, not marine.

That said, what does Holman Moody really mean in the way of performance? Just because a boat is setup with Holman Moody parts does it mean "performace" or did they supply "regular" stuff as well>

[boldts]

RustNot, First congrats on the purchase. Got any pics? Second, glad you all were able to weather the storm and get home safely! eek!

As for the Holman Moody pieces and parts, the Holman Moody option was an upgrade to the stock factory offerings. Holman Moody was the Ford NASCAR engine builder of the late 60s and 70s. Their shop was located in Charlotte, NC, but has since been dismantled so the only way to get original parts is to find them being sold by a previous owner. I owned an 18' Classic with the Holman Moody option and when I contacted them, I was told the machine dies had been destroyed for the marine parts. At the time, they were still doing restore work on the automotive side, but no marine restoration.

Currently, if they still have an e-mail address, you might try asking for the build sheet of a small block Ford from them and then take that to an engine builder to have a block built to the H/M specifications. If you keep an eye out on E-Bay, sometimes you'll find someone selling H/M engine parts like the intake manifold, valve covers, maybe even an air cleaner cover that could be made compatable with a marine K & N filter, but they usually also know what they have and come at a high price. My boat still had the H/M exhaust manifolds and the H/M tach insignia. However, the original engine block was gone and replaced with a stock Ford 302. Boat had the H/M insignia on the Volvo 250 outdrive also. On the V-Drive models, I believe they used a H/M decal rather than the nameplates. I've got a picture of an 18' Classic H/M V-Drive at home. I'll try to post it tonight if I can find it. Good luck with your restore! :)

http://www.donzi.net/hull/c18v357/3.jpg

For more pics, see Richy Willett's 18 Classic (http://www.donzi.net/hull.cfm?id=10)

It won't help you with the engine since it is a Big Block Ford, but it's a great example of a 18' H/M V-Drive Classic.

[Bob]

For Holman Moody info try this: http://www.marineengine.com/manuals/holmanmoody/index.html
Great service- I got a manual for my Chrysler 440S (Six Pack) there as well as Velvet Drive info. Andrew is great to deal with. What I can't find is much on Crusader V-drives.

[rustnrot]

Thanks for the info, all. I just got off the phone with a buddy who said all the H-M's had the head bolts and some other bolts replaced with those that had the HM insignia on the bolt heads. Is that true or look for it be disproved on the next Myth Busters episode?

[Rootsy]

if you want to get it right from the horses mouth shoot an email to: mailto:lee@holmanmoody.comlee@holmanmoody.com</a>

website is www.holmanmoody.com (http://www.holmanmoody.com)

[mattyboy]

My H/M 351w is setup 10:1 and around 310 ponies right from H/M I would think they have a lil more get up and go then a stock engine! You can still order a H/M motor just not in marine form strictly stock car stuff .

BTW if any one is looking for that last minute Christmas gift for me, the H/M valve covers would be the ticket at 150 bucks a side :p wink :D

Rust not sure about the v drive but I can help with the H/M water setup and crossover thingy.
for the most part besides the engine they just added their badge to the bell housing risers and outdrive, cross over pipes and put the sticker on the front.
good luck with the project


matty

[mphatc]

What year is your V-Drive?

The earliest Donzi that I know of with a H&M 302 is a 68 Corsican. Any earlier and it likely is a 289.
Visit:
http://www.classicmustang.com/casting_numbers.htm

Presently I am disassembling my engine prior to a thorough rebuild, I can't say that the internal engine fasteners are anything unique, I would have noticed logos or anything else as I build HP engines for a living. :D

FWIW, this engine's history is known from day 1, and it has never been apart. I also have a lower end knock, did most of the summer, though that did not keep me from running it hard, eek! :D once I figured out that it was a crank thrust bearing noise.

I have a full copy, albeit a bit weathered, of the build specs of this engine and would be happy to send you photocopies of it.

As best I can tell they all came with the factory steel 4 barrel intake, only the 351 came stock with the cast aluminum valve covers. 302s all came with the chrome valve covers.

Let us know how your boat progresses, it is a cool piece!

MPHATC

[Craig]

The two old Powerboat Magazine articles I posted back in Oct. 2002 give some good Holman Moody info. and even as applied to the Donzi 18 options round about 1970.

Page 28 (Cobalt 16' portion) states the HM-302 was 235 hp and says "can be easily boosted to 290 hp by using strictly stock factory parts."

Mentions the 289 and the 10:1 compression ratio too.

Page 32 (Donzi 18' portion) states the same stuff as above for the 302, but says also available (at least for the 18') were (among other options, like Interceptor 165hp and 210hp motors) a HM-300hp option (my guess is this was the 290hp 351), as well as a HM-400hp V-drive!

The bell housing plate on my HM-351 says 290-4V which I was told meant 290 hp and the 4V meant 4 barrel carb.

Here's the article link:

http://www.donzi.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005898#000000

[ALLAN BROWN]

I left Donzi 1 Nov 67, when the Chisholms bought it. At that point, we only used H&M for racing (sort of) stuff. They had the 289 HP "Phony Cobra", that was a great little HP Mustang engine. At that time, I was racing for H&M. They didn't really get fired up on OEM sales until the next year. I used them almost exclusively on the Nova 24'. The Nova twin v-drive was more or less two sets of 16 or 18 Donzi v-drive parts. I designed the Donzi rudder, and then the Nova rudder. Both are now made by John Rose at Ellis Propellor in Jacksonville. As far as the v-drive is concerned, it is a Crusader 4000 model (stands for 4000 oz./in. torque capacity) and all parts are available at Jerry's Marine, Ft. Lauderdale. Most of the struts are still made by Ellis.

The H&M horsepower ratings were very, er, generous. The 28' Donzi was 11 mph faster with a 325 turbo Daytona than a 400 H&M!

[ALLAN BROWN]

I left Donzi 1 Nov 67, when the Chisholms bought it. At that point, we only used H&M for racing (sort of) stuff. They had the 289 HP "Phony Cobra", that was a great little HP Mustang engine. At that time, I was racing for H&M. They didn't really get fired up on OEM sales until the next year. I used them almost exclusively on the Nova 24'. The Nova twin v-drive was more or less two sets of 16 or 18 Donzi v-drive parts. I designed the Donzi rudder, and then the Nova rudder. Both are now made by John Rose at Ellis Propellor in Jacksonville. As far as the v-drive is concerned, it is a Crusader 4000 model (stands for 4000 oz./in. torque capacity) and all parts are available at Jerry's Marine, Ft. Lauderdale. Most of the struts are still made by Ellis.

The H&M horsepower ratings were very, er, generous. The 28' Donzi was 11 mph faster with a 325 turbo Daytona than a 400 H&M!

[ALLAN BROWN]

I left Donzi 1 Nov 67, when the Chisholms bought it. At that point, we only used H&M for racing (sort of) stuff. They had the 289 HP "Phony Cobra", that was a great little HP Mustang engine. At that time, I was racing for H&M. They didn't really get fired up on OEM sales until the next year. I used them almost exclusively on the Nova 24'. The Nova twin v-drive was more or less two sets of 16 or 18 Donzi v-drive parts. I designed the Donzi rudder, and then the Nova rudder. Both are now made by John Rose at Ellis Propellor in Jacksonville. As far as the v-drive is concerned, it is a Crusader 4000 model (stands for 4000 oz./in. torque capacity) and all parts are available at Jerry's Marine, Ft. Lauderdale. Most of the struts are still made by Ellis.

The H&M horsepower ratings were very, er, generous. The 28' Donzi was 11 mph faster with a 325 turbo Daytona than a 400 H&M!

[ALLAN BROWN]

I left Donzi 1 Nov 67, when the Chisholms bought it. At that point, we only used H&M for racing (sort of) stuff. They had the 289 HP "Phony Cobra", that was a great little HP Mustang engine. At that time, I was racing for H&M. They didn't really get fired up on OEM sales until the next year. I used them almost exclusively on the Nova 24'. The Nova twin v-drive was more or less two sets of 16 or 18 Donzi v-drive parts. I designed the Donzi rudder, and then the Nova rudder. Both are now made by John Rose at Ellis Propellor in Jacksonville. As far as the v-drive is concerned, it is a Crusader 4000 model (stands for 4000 oz./in. torque capacity) and all parts are available at Jerry's Marine, Ft. Lauderdale. Most of the struts are still made by Ellis.

The H&M horsepower ratings were very, er, generous. The 28' Donzi was 11 mph faster with a 325 turbo Daytona than a 400 H&M!

[ALLAN BROWN]

I left Donzi 1 Nov 67, when the Chisholms bought it. At that point, we only used H&M for racing (sort of) stuff. They had the 289 HP "Phony Cobra", that was a great little HP Mustang engine. At that time, I was racing for H&M. They didn't really get fired up on OEM sales until the next year. I used them almost exclusively on the Nova 24'. The Nova twin v-drive was more or less two sets of 16 or 18 Donzi v-drive parts. I designed the Donzi rudder, and then the Nova rudder. Both are now made by John Rose at Ellis Propellor in Jacksonville. As far as the v-drive is concerned, it is a Crusader 4000 model (stands for 4000 oz./in. torque capacity) and all parts are available at Jerry's Marine, Ft. Lauderdale. Most of the struts are still made by Ellis.

The H&M horsepower ratings were very, er, generous. The 28' Donzi was 11 mph faster with a 325 turbo Daytona than a 400 H&M!

[J&K SHAHBAS]

Brownie, Does Ellis propeller carry the rudder and
the transom housing? The housings on my 28 are
deteriorated and I am trying to locate them. These are the only parts Im missing, also do you
recall what overdrive you were using in the 28 twins at the time, and what propeller dia./pitch
worked the best? Im at 700 hp per motor and I
have a set of 15% and 21% overdrive gears witch would you start with? My hornet has 29% over and runs a 11 1/2 Dia x 18" pitch at 5300 rpm but I am not sure with the 28 being twins and heavy were
to start. Thanks for your help.

[ALLAN BROWN]

Yes, they have them. I hope you are not using the Crusader v-drive for that HP! We never used overdrive in the v-drive. For instance, your Hornet at 5300 rpm x 1.19 x 18 / 1056 = 107 mph no-slip. Somebody is pulling somebody's leg.....

[J&K SHAHBAS]

I agree with the with what your seeing on paper but
I asure you that it is 29% and the prop came from
menkins propeller and is 18" of pitch and the motor
on at 6lbs of boost is 780HP from 565 ci ford and
about 80mph empty so yes pretty inefficiant numbers. as for the V-drives in the 28 im using
casale. Thanks for the info!!! Hope you can help withsome of the rigging hardware.

[rustnrot]

Wow what a post! Ellis has the underwater gear and Jerrys has some Crusader v drive parts. I called Jerrys Marine today to verify. 1. They said they had some Crusader v drive parts. 2. They said they did not make a 4000 model (not true). 3. They said they probably did NOT have any gearsets.

Questions: The v drive in my 16 is a 1:1. Does anyone know if it can handle 50% underdrive gears and furthermore does anyone have gears such as these?

[Bob]

For V drive gearing issues try www.v-driveboat.com. (http://www.v-driveboat.com.) Mostly California river-runners but they have a lot of archives. Most of the flat-bottom crowd seems to run Casales.
The V-drive in the Richy Willets 1970 C18 looks just like the one in my 1971 Hornet. I was told it was a Crusader 2500 by a very reputable mechanic. Mine doesn't say 2500 on it but rather-Crusader #7923 ratio 1:1.5 Warren, Ohio. Boat is hull C19HV 59

[ALLAN BROWN]

When you call Jerry's Marine, ask for Billy Martin or Jim Mander. They both know all about it. Jerry's=954-525-0311

[J&K SHAHBAS]

Rustnrot, Try Bergeron Engineering in Mesa AZ,
480-834-1531 talk to Phil he some times has extras
keep in mind that the geaer sets can be flipped to
give the opposite % such as 1.15 can be used as 15% over or under depending on witch way you install the gears. Why are you wanting underdrive? Most V-drive Donzis ive seen are 1.15 over, but they are
all big blocks, so your 1to1 is probably about right depending on HP output.

[rustnrot]

Long story, and I probably would not do it and if I did, I'd probably be banned..........but I have a brand new Mazda rotary engine sitting in the shop from www.rotarypowermarine.com (http://www.rotarypowermarine.com) that is screaming for a boat. Weighs 350 lbs., 175 hp.

[J&K SHAHBAS]

Hey ,no one on this site will ban you from being differnt. and I am pretty sure I have a set of 21s
and a set of 77s that might help you if you do it
so give a shout if I can help.