Monza/Cigarette

[PaulO]

Just saw an interesting ad for a 1978 Monza. It is supposedly the same hull as the cigarette Firefox. Cool looking 23' boat. Said to be original Aronow design and build. Twin 180HP medrcruisers with Alphas. Seems like a decent price. Anyone have any opinions on this boat? How about you Seano?
PaulO

[CDMA]

Paul,

The boat that first got me interested in Donzi's was a Monza. I had some money and wanted a project boat. I just looked and looked till I saw something I did not have and would interest me. The first thing that really interested me was what wound up to ne a 1968 19 or 20 foot Monza. It was built in 1968 and was trashed which did not bother me. It had a seized LT1 350 that looked put together really well. It looked a lot like Hornet but with a more angular windsheild. I loved the design of the boat but the it was not a Dozni and I decided I really wanted a Donzi. What it was aside I really like the design. It was bigger than my boat , deeper and had more room. The Engine compartment was huge. I could sit next to the engine. I would have bought it had it not been for the vintage OMC drive. I think it would have been a mistake for me. In retrospect for a few reasons. First of all I love, more than anything I have ever seen, my 18. Also I, in retrosepect, like he size. Small and nimble. But none of really pertains to a Monza so back to the right subject. I have honestly gone back and looked at the boat then and again. From what I know now I also realize it is nowhere near the quality of my boat. There are quite a few stress cracks, the hardware is low rent as is the dash / instruments....and it just is cheap. You know when you look at an old hundyai you just know it is crap....I get the same impression. Then again it is a very differnt year then the one you describe. And I will be the first to admit that more than regularly I go back and gaze at that boat and smile.....

Chris

[PaulO]

Here are some pics:
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1165039&a=9438539

[CDMA]

Nice looking boat. Do I see Michigan plates on that.

Chris

Would 2 small blocks fit?

[PaulO]

Yes, Michigan boat. Don't know about twin SBCs.
PaulO

[GEOO]

Paul, Interesting Boat!! Does it have v8's or 6's. GEOO

[PaulO]

Actually,
It has 180HP fours!!! Claims 60-65 top end depending on load. Proclaims it to be a fantastic rough water boat. Says it has the 24 degree deep V. I'm not much of an Historian ( SEANO and OWEN WHERE ARE YOU ) but the owner claims it is an original Aronow.
PaulO

[CDMA]

I am pretty sure that Monza was not an Arronow company.

and 180 hp fours!!!!

cool

Chris

[Owen]

The Merc 470/3.7 was a straight 4 rated 165 hp with the two barrel carb/manifold and 180 with the four barrel carb/manifold. The tooling for the engines wore out and the design was dropped in '88. You can't get the four barrel manifold anymore. It is widely regarded as the most high strung stock four cylinder marine engine ever made. I've got the 165 version in my Seaswirl and I've been very impressed by what this little engine can do.

Saying a boat is an "Aronow Design" is some thing of a mis-statement. As far as I can tell, Don never "designed" a boat. He hired other people to design boats for him.

Monza is one of several companies that popped molds off of various models of Donzi.
Real Donzis were always very expensive and back logged with orders and all these other companies jumped in to fill the gap. In the late 60's it was common to wait two years for a real Donzi.

[Len]

Owen, how does that work? I thought you had to change a hull design by more than 50% to even be allowed to market it under any name and certainly not the clones. Does this formula include deck/fittings/engines? How does Python make their Viper? How could a company lay-up a copy of a Donzi 18 say, and then market it? It didn't work for Cobalt, did it?

------------------
North, (way North) of Cuba...

[Owen]

If you take a real close look at design patent law, there are so many holes in it as to be
unenforceable. The Deep Vee design with lifting strakes by the late Ray Hunt - father of all that is Donzi - was never patented. To tell you the truth, Cobalt probably could have keep making copies - I'm not too familiar with the particulars of that case. The Donzi 16 itself was a copy (somewhat altered) of a design Aronow sold to Thunderbird when he sold the Formula Company. Boat builders usually second source fittings so that isn't a patent question. There are many things you can't patent in the US. Clothing design is one, as is perfume. For some strange reason you can't patent a potato either.
You have exclusive control of a design for only 20 years anyway so right now ANYONE could copy a sweet 16 with out paying royalties. You could not call it a Donzi though since that comes under trademark law and is indefinite. Now lets say you want to copy a FZ32. Fine, you just leave out the steps in the hull or move them a few inches fore or aft and start popping them out. But you can't make a Z hull strake design boat (i.e. Stingray) regardless of size without paying royalties since that whole strake design is patented.
No, I'm not a lawyer. Ken is. Go ask Ken. http://www.donzi.net/ubb/wink.gif

[This message has been edited by Owen (edited 10-22-2000).]

[Owen]

I want to say Boston Whaler here, but that was also a Ray Hunt Design and he
just didn't care about patents.

[GEOO]

I had a Merc. 470 in two of my 20 Bertram's. Most people repowered the small Bertrams in the 80's with this power package. It was an Aluminum block, fresh water cooled, 4 cly., the head was off a Ford BB 460, so it was basicly 1/2 a 460. GEOO