The new BOATING issue

[Moody Blu']

Guys I got the scare of my life when I flipped through the new boating magazine...

They have a how to on installing a nitrous system in a boat...

The article goes something like this....

Tired of seein big joe fly by in his high speed boat, well no more, once you hit that button youll be flying right by mr high performance making him wonder what the heck you have under the hood....

to say the least, that is a scary thought...

can you say chinewalk= accidents......??????

What are these people thinking in boating magazine?

let alone they say nothing about the stresses involved in using NOS. All they say pretty much is Nos is like a supercharger but the supercharger just forces air into the intake while all nitrous does is cool the air to - 127 degress and is better then a supercharger because it is pretty much on and off, unlike the supercharger which is always on.....

I didnt read anywhere how, people who install this may need to be careful because the extra power may cause the boat to chinewalk out of control.. nor did it say if you hold the button down to long youll blow the motor sky high... especially with non forged pistons.....

anyone care to vent about this? im glad Ijust did,
but im just warning everyone

LOOK OUT!!!!!!

[tmdog]

Some advertisers have no soul in order to sell there product. Safety and common sense take a back seat.Buyer beware.No wonder the yellow pages are full of lawyers.

[HyperDonzi]

nitrous is pretty stupid in my opinion in any engine, some call it adrenaline in a bottle or crack for your car. some of the systems these kids get on their rice burners is crazy, stock witha 125 ho system on a 160hp engine? people learn eventually.

[ThrillSeeker]

Nos is for those loosers that cant afford a real boat like a Donzi!!! :p :D :D :D

[oldLenny]

I used to "worship" Geoos boat when he was running 82 MPH in "Mighty Mouse" with his NoS system...

[ThrillSeeker]

Forget nos buy a real motor!! :D

[Ranman]

Hyper and Thrill, I can't disagree with you more. Number one, nitrous oxide is not hard on your engine....if setup and used properly.

Nitrous, turbos, and blowers do exactly the same thing, introduce add'l oxygen to an engine. Blowers and turbos do it by compressing air and forcing it into the cylinders. The advantage to blowers and turbos is that they never "run out". You don't have to refill them.

Nitrous being N2O is essentially 66% Nitrogen and 33% Oxygan. Your basic atmosphere is made up of 78% Nitrogen and 21% Oxygen. By spraying nitrous into an engine at standard atmospheric pressure, your giving your engine a 12% boost in available oxygen. If you mix this with add'l fuel to achieve the proper air/fuel ratio, you get a bigger bang in the cylinder and hence more HP. The problem lies in the application. If your moter does not have the proper components to support the increased cylinder pressures and temperatures, problems are eminant. If you just spray in N2O and do not get the air fuel ratio correct, problems are eminant. Too much fuel (rich) equals less of an HP gain, but is generally safe. Not enough extra fuel and a lean condition occurrs which puts you on the path for catastrophic disaster. People who tune turbos and blowers have to deal with these challenges. You cant just bolt on a blower and force extra air into an engine, you have to tune the fuel system accordingly.

My point is that there is a stigma associated with nitrous and it is un-just. There are too many uneducated people out there who don't know enough about how to use nitrous or what their engines can safely handle, and when they have problems they blame the nitrous. They think that if a little is good, then more is better and they over do it.

If you think your a loser by running nitrous, then to me, the same would apply to anyone who runs any kind of forced induction so you'd be calling them losers too.

And thrill, the fastest Donzi classic on the board started out on nitrous. Randy

[HyperDonzi]

if used correctly, airplanes are safe. overall they are but theres a few flights each year that arent. to much of a good thing is bad. i believe Holley says that on a stock 6 cyl 60-80hp is all that is reccomemded.
refiling a 10 lb bottle is around 70$ if i can remember last summer when i was planning on buying one for my mom's trans-am

and im sure, some uf us having 100 or so more horsepower at the push of a button would get a little bit trigger happy...

[ThrillSeeker]

OK well maybe not loosers, but its not safe on the water, and doesnt work as well either. If you have some body on the water that is used to only taking there boat 65-70mph and they put nos on it and hit it and run 80 -90 that is only asking for alot of trouble. but if you want to wast the money, and maybe kill yourself, or even others go right ahead, but stay away from me, If I am going to die I dont want it to be from some moron that cant handle his boat!! If speed Is going to kill me I want to be the one driving. Man forget nos. supper chargers, and blowers are sweet.

[HyperDonzi]

yep if im killin myself going fast i will be the one driving :)

[Last Tango]

Okay...but...$70 for what...30 seconds? Hmmm. Cost/benefit ratio seems off, to me. Unless one drag race shot is all you do in your boat challenges. I, too,have done a lot of reading on NO2, and I agree that the benefit is extraordinary when properly set up and adjusted. But it seems to me like it is similar to a helicopter in a hover. Excellent advantage over a fixed-wing aircraft, but very tricky to maintain, and requires special engineering and equipment.
Also, boats tend to be left unattended for long periods of time,and in extreme environments...corrosion.
Anyway, I have never used the stuff so I'm not an expert from that point. But a supercharger will give you more time in the saddle per dollar spent. And there are several excellent marine superchargers.

[HyperDonzi]

i know on cars you get 15-20 1/4 mile passes out of a 10lb bottle.

[Rootsy]

well said randy!

plus there are the benefits of the thermodynamic processes that occur with the dramatic pressure drop of the N20 which cools and condenses the incoming fuel air mixture...

[Ranman]

Thrill, What you're saying makes no sense, and it certainly isn't earning you any add'l respect on this board. You're talking about two different things.

I was talking about methods about making your boat faster of which nitrous oxide is an option. It has it's advantages and disadvantages. Superchargers are expensive and typically run in the $5000 range. Nitrous systems are much cheaper say $1500 for a properly set up boat and that's being generous. In MI I can fill a tank for about $25. That means I could fill up my bottle 140 times before I approach the cost of the supercharger and I don't have to lay out the money in one lump sum. A bottle of nitrous will however, run out, and that's all you get until a refill. Superchargers are nice since they are on all the time, but you have to pay to get that. If my goal is to be able to get a few extra mph every now and then to beat that pesky Fountain, NOS is way more economical.

Now, Top speed of a boat is a whole nother story that has nothing to do with nitrous. Saying "nitrous is not safe on the water" is simply not true and you sound silly saying it. Unsafe boaters in boats are not safe on the water. Any unsafe boater is dangerous. Putting them in a boat with big power and speed compounds the issue. It doesn't matter if you give them nitrous, superchargers, or naturally aspirated HP. Nitrous has nothing to do with it.

Saying "If speed Is going to kill me I want to be the one driving." is another ignorant statement. The addage I try to live by and think you may be wise to adopt is "If you want to go fast tomorrow, you can't kill yourself today."

If you and Hyper want to gain any respect on this board and have knowledgeable people respond to your posts and help you learn about boating and Donzis, quit with the crap, get a good job, save your money, buy a Donzi, get a truck to tow it, and use the search function to find the answers to all your questions and stop posting junk.

[HyperDonzi]

i understand what your saying. sorry.

[Riley]

Ranman and Jamie Root, you two guys make me proud to be a Michigander! Your tech related posts are always entertaining and informative. Please keep the good info coming, a lot of us old-school hot-rodders like to hear what you have to say......Chris Riley

[oldLenny]

Thrillseeker,..."Looser" only has one "o"...

(I couldn't help it wink )

[ThrillSeeker]

Ran man for your informatyion I have a good job, and a truck. I work for LPP paving, and am a machine opperator. Leeny thanks for the spelling corection. I am very nolegable on boats, and I just dont think that nos should not be on the water. You put up a good argument but I dont call you stupid so I dont apreciat you calling me a moron. I understand what you are saying but its just not as safe.

[mjpcowboy]

Well put!!! We all chase speed on the water however we can get it. I have had seen many boats and personal watercraft do some very stupid things at 40mph or under. It is not the boat that causes the problem it is the boater.

[Donzi Dreaming]

Wow, does this mean I'm a double loser. 87 Grand National, 3.8l turbo w/ NOS, 3700lbs, 115mph in the 1/4 mile, and still gets 26mpg on the highway.

Boy did I piss off the guys with the mid life crisis Vettes! :mad:

John

[Rootsy]

i think, to put it plain and simple, everyone has their own opinion on the use of NOS, turbochargers and superchargers... it is personal preference and everyone is entitled to their own opinion on what is "really" ligitimate ways of making hp... everyone's opinion is valid...

the fact is, if you don't like the odds or what the other guy has under the hood or hatch then don't race him or get out your checkbook and the jegs catalog so you can... it is your choice... if you feel that NOS is not fair to you in a race that is your right so don't run... the guy who has it has every right to use it... to expect him not to push the button would be like you having a 4V and soem guy wanting to race you with a 2V motor and asking you to disengage your secondaries to make it a "fair" race... there is no such thing... you run whatcha brung and if you can't run with the big dog or don't like the odds then stay on the porch or look for another pooch to play with.

NOS is a fairly inexpensive way for the not so wealthy to be able to play with the big boys... not everyone has 10K OR MORE sitting around to put together a screamer... NOS just helps you level the field when you want to play with them... as long as you use your head and take the time to setup your motor accordingly you won't have issues.

What burns me most and it has everything to do with people and nothing to do with NOS are those people who have the bottle, they try to conceal conceal conceal, they'll tell you over and over they don't have it and they want to race ya knowing they can beat you hands down... just cause they can... it's an insecurity thing... just like the school yard bully pickin on the runt... i mean c'mon pick on someone your own size... what fun is there if there is no challenge in it?

[Moody Blu']

whoaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
hold the hell on.........

ranman, I dont care how long you hsave been here.

did you completely miss the point of my topic??????

Boating magazine put out a article in there mag about using nos in a boat like it was a snap to do.

If you think for 1 second that it is safe for everyday joe boater to hook up a nos bottle , properly installed or not.... If you dont think its dangerous then keep on ranting on with all your valuable info, but guess what you are sounding like an ass to me, WHY? because you completely missed the point of my topic....

this topic is not about using nos with a proper setup.... Ie: forged pistons, balanced crank and tuned/jetted carb.......

this topic is about how BOATING magazine wrote an article how everyone can use NOS in there boat.

where the hell do you get off telling off everyone when there in tune with the topic and you come out of right feild talking about how its greeat to use with a motor that was built for it...
I think you owe me and them an apology.
you post sort of made me out to be an "uneducated person"- I beg to differ.

Yes you had valuable information but you missed the whole point of the topic....

:mad: :mad: :mad:

Im pissed.......
apologize or delete your posts..

not to piss you off jamie, but every thing you and ranman said were wrong when it comes to what the boating article said....

to sum it up they said LIKE I SAID ZIN THE FIRST POST IF YOU BOTHERED TO READ IT:
Tired of seein big joe fly by in his high speed boat, well no more, once you hit that button youll be flying right by mr high performance making him wonder what the heck you have under the hood....

:mad:
talking about respect on the right topic is one thing but one you talk about earning respect on a topic where you are totaly on the wrong side of the boat just totaly, well, you fill in the rest................... :o

no hard feelings guys wink
read before you write.........

[Rootsy]

you really need to take a chill pill dude :rolleyes: ... i was just going in the direction the post was... i don't think i bashed, cut down or tried to offend anyone in any way shape or form did i? you took whatever i wrote entirely out of context in your red frown faces of anger over previous posts in your thread... if you'd simmer down and reread you'd see that posts number 4 and 6 kinda changed the whole scenario of the thread eh... and yes i agree with your first post, i had no opinion on the matter until the direction of the thread changed... are we clear?

[boldts]

Gentlemen, I've kind of sat back to see where this thread went before deciding to step in and say something. I've done my share of street racing in a 64 SS Chevelle and a sleeper 67 Chevelle. Under the hood, I had a SB with a Tri-Power on top of it. I would race anyone who challenged including BB Chevelles. You learned who you could play with by the experience and making new friends once you returned to the local shopping center where we used to display our cars.

With that said, I liked the fact that I could hide those carbs under the hood if I wanted to. I did both, hide and every now and then, I pulled the hood to double stack the air cleaners to show. Like I said, I raced anyone who challenged for the experience and won a few as well as lost a few, but was never called a loser to my face once I met the person who beat me. The main thing I want to say here, is on the street, its all fair no matter what you do. On the track? Well, you have rules and classes.

You have mentioned that you want to be behind the wheel if you die at speed. Let me tell you what changed my life and I'll never ever be able to change or forget. Again before I got into boating....

One night, sitting in the local shopping center with friends, someone we had not seen before in a Camaro, came in and started doing doughnuts throwing stones all over the hood of my Chevelle. Not thinking or caring who this guy was, we jumped into the car and began to chase him down through small town PA. At full bore, we came to a red light. My friends yelled red light and I slammed on the brakes. We stopped, but heard the secondaries of the Camaro kick in. The intersection went up then down and the Camaro launched some 20 yards into the air. It struck an electric pole in the air splitting the car in half. Parts and sparks were flying everywhere. We were so scared we left the scene. My mother was a nurse at the local hospital and I called her to see if someone had been brought into the emergency room for a car wreck. She said yes and the police were looking for a blue Chevrolet. My Chevelle! The driver had lost his life. We got back into my car and went to the police station. We were told that the young man was drunk and drugs along with many empty beer cans were found in the car. For that reason and no damage found on my car, we were told to go home and not charged with anything. We were also told to be very thankful. You see, had that young man not gone around my car and plowed into the back of it, there would have been 5 dead bodies that night.

Point? You never know about that other person next to you. At least on the road or at the lake. I've been testing parts at the lake lately. Did I go out on a weekend when our lakes are the busiest? NO, I went out on a week night after the diner time hours when most on the lake had gone home. Not only for my own safety, but for the safety of others on the lake. I picked a remote part of the lake, had my life jacket on and the kill switch cord attached. You have to remember, my 18 Classic had a top speed of 45 MPH. My 22 is now in the upper 60's speed range. This is much like the boater going from the 60s and adding NOS or any other performance enhancing part like a blower and now placing his or her boat into the 90s. You must work up to these speeds. It doesn't happen in an hour or less.

I have to live with that night in PA and the passing of that young man on my heart for the rest of my life. Maybe that was the lord's way of teaching me a very important lesson. My prayers now include a prayer that no one will have to experience a time in their life like I have lived. I have never shared this story with anyone other than the young men who were with me that night. I hope this story will stick in your minds next time someone wants to race you. I'm not saying to turn down a challenge, but know what could happen when you accept that challenge. Give that other boater and yourself plenty of room. You never know when a part might have other ideas for your experience and above all, never call your challenger a loser, stop and meet him or her and congratulate them on their effort. At least take the time to see what they tried to beat you with and maybe suggest some new ideas to them. You never know, that small block that just handed your big block a loss may have 3 two barrels on it. :)

BTW, if anyone is interested in that Tri-Power for your hot rod, I still have it and might be able to be talked into selling it!

[HyperDonzi]

wow. that is sad, now i realize how dangerous it was going outwith a few friends one night and racing others. we were in no chevelle but were still going over 100. testing parts on off peak hours should be a must for anyone who gets behind the wheel of anything.

[Formula Jr]

If you think your bo@t is slow - find bigger w@ter.

If you w@nt to show up people on @ l@ke - get @ BB/blown Pickle Fork. :D

--------------------------------
H@ppy @ 62 MPH.

[HyperDonzi]

bigger water?
smaller water then you have less time to run wot before running out of space

[Moody Blu']

ok im cool with both of you jamie and ranman, but the whole point of this topic was to announce boating magazines stupidity in writing this article....

this wasnt a thread about what type of artificially aspirated power should I go with I was mentioning how dumb it was of boating to print that article can we agree on that ranman and jamie????

Also, I didnt think it was cool for ranman to come in on a high horse talking about respect like that.....why be so anal, maybe they were joking around a bit ranman....sorry jamie, I guess because you started talkin about the particulars of NOS it threw me off, because it shows that you really didnt read the first thread, before you guys responded everyone was just responding to how dumb there article was and how DANGEROUS a article like that could be,(do you not see the dangers in writing up a article like that in a every day joe magazine?)

thats why I flew off the handle.....
I think that article is very dangerous to US and to all the other boaters out there........the thread shouldnt have taken a turn talking about respect. **** I dont even know anymore, I guess I was just trying to stick up for the new guys.... :(

why not start a topic about proper use of NOS?

for the last time, the topic was about the recklessness of boating mag for writing such an article......
jamie and ranman, reply, what do you think about such an article?

[Formula Jr]

R@nm@n did'nt ride @ high horse. He just spelled it out. It's inform@tion..... Yes we must m@ke notice of wh@t we m@y feel wrong @s wh@t newbies need. @nd you @re right to point th@t out. But there is the other side..... Th@t side s@ys, Live @nd those th@t survive - Le@rn............We get one shot @t this whole hum@n running bo@ts stuff so why not get sc@red once @nd @ while.... @nd then its' just @ sm@l step to @ deeply s@tisfying terror. :D

Run wh@t Y@ Got....n run it whole.....

[GEOO]

I like Nitrous. It's fun and safe; but it's not a simple bolt on. Every thing has to be in good shape with your engine and accesories. If one part doesn't work correctly, boom there goes your engine. Same with any "supercharged engine" (Turbo, Blower, Nitrous). I think the article made nitrous over simplified. You need to have your main fuel system and the nitrous fuel system working properly, it's not forgiving, lean out burn a piston!!!
Test, Test, Test... Check plugs, check fuel pressure, timing may need to be retarded, engine needs to run cool.

When I had the NOS kit; I installed safety low fuel pressure switches, to turn off the nitrous flow if the fuel pressure wasn't correct. My engine management system "ECU" was set up to make adjustments when you hit the nitrous. I set mine up to retard the timing 2 degrees, adjust for a rich fuel mixture 11.5 A/F, only start the nitrous at over 5000 rpm's and WOT.
Last year up at Lake George I had a 100hp kit. My boat was running 86 mph (radar) the next pass I hit the button and I radared at 96(radar). Chris was shooting the gun and said the numbers just jumped.
In short: nitrous is safe and fun; But it's not forgiving. If you want to play you must be willing to accept the possible problems.

[riverrat]

2 cents.. good post Geoo. I don't think many here posting on this have had experince with nos. I have a good friend on the river that's been running nos (150hp) on a purpose built 468 (600hp on the motor) for the better part of 15 years with 3 motors. It can be done..
testing is a BIG part of making it work.the boat is a 19' chapperal & it runs 98 mph on the motor & 108 on the spray. Man if you have never seen a tunnel jet run it's hard to tell someone how fast they are. Ask the harbormaster sometime his saw it run over 100 mph. That said, you should learn your boat. if you add nos you need to learn it again. it's not like you have to hold the spray for 10 seconds every run.
LIFE'S TOO SHORT TO DRIVE A SLOW BOAT! :D :D

[CnV & Family]

I'll chime in... as I've been sitting on the sidelines. Lot's of valid points. Lots of useful information. Disclaimers: I have not read the article. I am by many standards 'green' at boating.

From my perspective, it sounds like this article with a catchy opening was really targeted for a more general audience consisting of those who are looking for more speed and have been considering NOS. I don't know the magazine, so I don't know the writers or their styles or tendencies on presenting information.

The way I look at it, I need to be competent in my abilities to learn and handle the power that I have in a responsible manner, under any circumstances, before adding more. The danger I see in the article comes not from someone who has been considering more power and has been researching the alternatives... it comes from someone who wants more speed, but has no idea how to even handle what they already have. They slap down the money, have someone else do the install, without knowing what was done, and now they have way more power than they know how to handle at the push of a button.

Pushing things to the edge is not as reckless of a process as it sounds. I hope GEOO will not mind, but take his amazingly audacious 104.3 MPH run for instance. The man knows his limits as well as his crafts limits. I highly respect him and his posts about saftey and all the precautions he takes. Not to mention (as most everyone here with their own crafts) he knows exactly what his setup is because he's the one who's doing the work, or he knows exactly what he's having done to it. Testing it out means finding optimum configuration as well as learning how to handle the newfound power. Then, you test it all again and you learn it a little better... It's an neverending process. Having worked for Atlanta Dragway a long time ago, and now, working on my own Donzi, i've seen it first hand... there is so much more behind the scenes than the average person realizes.

We like to see numbers, and fast numbers... Nothing wrong with that. We like to have numbers, and fast numbers. Nothing wrong with that! We like to have our hearts pumping fast while the engine screams and we glide past everyone with huge grins plastered across our faces. Nothing wrong with that either! As far as losing, I've not yet raced our Donzi... but anything can be taken as a learning experience and the knowledge applied toward future events.

Now, to wade in a little deeper... I feel hyper and thrill changed the direction of the thread and do not believe anyone, including them, overstepped any bounds with thoughts or information presented. Fun is fine, but also, lets not start poking about methods used to gain power.

Broque: Yes, the topic changed directions... but maybe just a weeee little bit more tolerance on your part? :)

-C

[Ranman]

Moody,

I don't care how long I've been here either, who said anything about it?

With all due respect, I did not miss the point of your topic, I just never directly addressed it. In fact I agree with your point entirely. However, In both of my posts I was addressing (and maybe digressing) comments made by both Thrillseeker and HyperBaja. I was disagreeing with some of their statements and giving an explanation as to why I disagreed. Sometimes discussion within threads changes a bit and doesn't follow the original topic exactly, it happens, it's nothing to get angry over.

To Thrill and Hyper, I'm not calling either of you stupid or morons. I just get wound up when people say things like "nitrous is pretty stupid in my opinion in any engine" or "Nos is for those loosers that cant afford a real boat like a Donzi!!!" and then don't provide any information to back up their statements.

As far as the original topic goes, I do agree that the Boating magazine article from what was stated, sounds way out of line. It's just not as simple as installing a kit and mashing a button. For a magazine to make these statements and encourage Joe Boater to go chase down Mr. High Performance seems irresponsible.

Well guys, it's been real and it's been fun, but it hasn't been real fun. Time to move on for me.

[Ranman]

Just read all the new posts and I agree with pretty much everyone.

Moody, I do think the article has the potential to be dangerous.

Jr. What's up with all the @'s???

[Moody Blu']

ok:) cool, thats what I was ticked about, but it's all good now, sorry if I flew off the handle a bit.
Sorry ranman and jamie.....friends? :)

ranman, I think jr's A button doesnt work.....

[Donzigo]

It's great to read a heated discussion of the topic. I always learn more, when it's this way.

Oh, I also "love the smell of naphalm in the morning", carry on gentlemen.

[ThrillSeeker]

Guys I hope we are cool now, I didnt mean to afend any body with my remarks, I just dont think any old swinging joe should be using nos. Its not safe for him or any other people on the water. Blue youare right its not just a simple set up. If not done right it can be costly. A friend of mine, and I were at the drag strip one night, and saw a guy put a 100 shot of nos on his car
in the pits, well he didnt lisen to any body, and when he shot it it caught on fire and blew his car up and almost killed him!! Thats why I dont like nos!!! frown

[Ranman]

Im good. See ya on the water. :D :D :D