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Rick
09-10-2002, 08:43 AM
You know, I have seen people slam tease and make fun of people asking a lot of money for their classics. Fine, but think about this for a moment. My 21-GT cost in excess of $12000 probably closer to $15000 in 1970. A Daytona Ferrari was $17000, a Corvette was $7000. A big block Shelby couldn't touch those numbers. Some of these boats are the Shelbys and Ferraris of the day. People of the register should appreciate these classics for what they are in history. Being owners of these classics I would think there would be more support. We should applaud when these boats bring good values instead of looking at NADA and saying they are all worth $2500 to. What are your thoughts?
Rick

BigGrizzly
09-10-2002, 09:37 AM
It is supply and demand. In 1981 My Criterion cost over $30,000 on the price list. Value to me is the same and at this point in time. There were only 29(according to the old CR guy at Donzi) ever made. Not every body likes vintage boats. Mine was written up in a vintage boat article. Only three people called to ask about the boat, and only one tried to buy it. I blew him off. In some cases these boats are commonplace and in poor shape. Then again look at other makes at the same age and the joke is on them.If someone will sell a good Donzi cheap, then he loses and someone else winds. this is what makes life interesting.

Randy, owner of Donzis since 1966

Gritz
09-10-2002, 11:11 AM
Rick,

You said it well!

http://www.donzi.net/photos/whyde05.jpg

AVickers
09-10-2002, 11:30 AM
Although I'd love to find a rare old Donzi under a tarp in a barn, restore it and sell it for 20 times what I paid for it when I retire, the odds are that it won't happen. (Although I did find a '58 Austin Healey 100-6 in a barn under a tarp and I did restore it and the market on old Healeys seems to have increased by a factor of 30 over what I paid... And I also found an old E-type Jag roadster in a storage locker, but haven't restored it...yet.)

Anyway, as sad as it may seem, "supply and demand" sums it up. Actually, it's more a matter of demand. Unfortunately, there are too few people out there who appreciate boats, much less old boats -- especially old fiberglass boats (maybe some day...).

I was happy to sell my old Classic 18 for what I paid for it... Anyone who knows boats, knows that this was some kind of miracle. (Actually, looking back, I probably should have kept it -- I really liked it and had most of the bugs worked out. It's a wife thing...)

I have a friend (he's in his mid-70's) w/ a well-maintained 30's vintage Chris Craft runabout -- now that's old! I have no idea what it's worth, but I'm sure it's worth more to my friend than to anyone else... And he's content to keep it, cruise in it every once in a while when the lake is calm and leave it at that. (It's about like the boat used in "On Golden Pond") One of his kids will get it someday and then it'll probably sell for whatever it'll bring at the time. As far as I can tell, neither kid has an interest in boats...

Formula Jr
09-10-2002, 04:15 PM
If a boat is as advertised, and perfect in everyway, you will find very few people making fun of a price if it is with in reason. To use your analogy, say you can across a "road runner superbee" that the seller says is in mint shape and wants 15K for it. You travel 600 miles one way to take a look after the seller says he has title. You get there and sure enough, its a road runner, but the superbee decal is something that was obviously hand painted on. Looking further, you notice that the engine isn't original, the hood is after market, and you can't find any place on the panels for a magnet to stick. You then notice the inner part of the doors is yellow, while the car's exterior is green. You're getting pissed at this point and ask some pointed questions as to the car's history and find out the owner took it in trade for something else a month ago as he hands you the receipt for the trade which he then says you can recontruct a title from. Well, alot of us have been down this road with classic donzis and other boats. The ONLY thing the seller knows is that the boat is rare, and thats his only justification for establishing price. When this is seen, we quite rightly make fun of the price, boat and/or seller. Its a warning to anyone else to be careful and to know the real market before making the leap. The nada guides are completely useless when applied to boats' of this vintage. One interesting future feature of this site, might well be a rough price guide of "Turn Key" perfect 10 classics. But then again, how could an owner of such a boat ever put a price figure to it? The question "If it was for sale, how much would you sell it for?" is a pretty meaningless question..... :D

Gearhead99
09-10-2002, 06:23 PM
Good post.

Reminds me of looking at a Donzi back about 15 years ago. Saw it advertised in Boat trader. It was a 70, 18 2 + 3. Said it had a Holman-Moody "Boss 302". It was in Ft. Liquordale and he was asking $3-4K. Heck, a "Boss 302" engine is worth that. I talked to the owner on the phone for quite some time. Asking about the engine, not acting excited, so he doesn't hold his price so high. Anyway, asked several times if it was a "Boss" he said yes. Asked if he knew what a "Boss" was. He said yes and explained it back to me about the cleveland heads and all.

Jumped in truck, cash in hand and drove to Ft. Liquordale. I live in Orlando. About 3 hours one way. Pouring rain. Had a heck of a time finding the house.

You know the answer. It was a "junk yard" 302. Still had the yellow writing on the valve cover from the yard and had the EGR valve on it and a 2 barrel carb. I was "Hot" to say the least. Other then that the boat was pure "JUNK". Trailer was "JUNK" too.

I kicked myself all the way home, 3 hours, about being so dumb. Never again.

Good Donzi's deserve their price.

Formula Jr
09-10-2002, 07:25 PM
G99, Perfect. Thats exactlly what I'm saying.

But I must also point out that the GT 21, being as it is so rare and one of the most covented of all the Donzis, will bring an extraordinary price regardless of its running condition or Originallity...... :D :D :D :D wink

Rick
09-10-2002, 07:43 PM
Well of course!!
Rick

Rootsy
09-10-2002, 07:57 PM
to get right to the guts of it... it is worth to you what YOU are willing to pay for it... Each person has his or her own price that they are willing to shell out... it all depends on what they are looking for and willing to do as far as work, restoration, etc. fact is, there are more than enough to go around if you look hard and long enough.

then in a class by themselves are the bench seat hornets, gt21's, barrelbacks, etc, etc... rarity elevates price.. regardless of condition.

generally "flawless and immaculate" mean different things to different people...

Cuda
09-10-2002, 08:14 PM
Everything in the world is worth exactly what someone else is willing to pay for it. A lot depends on how badly you need to sell. I bought an older 4wd 3/4 ton truck last year in good shape with all options for $1800. I didn't need it and rarely drove it, but it was too good a deal to pass on. I had a guy at my house cutting trees ask me if I wanted to sell. I told him not really, and he bugged me for a price. I said $2800, he took it for a drive, came back and offered $2400. I said no thanks, he then wrote out a check for $2800. The point is, he wanted to buy worse than I wanted to sell, so I had more leverage in the bargaining. Same thing holds true on boats, especially older ones.

Scott Pearson
09-10-2002, 08:23 PM
Just my 2 cents...I buy Donzi's to keep and restore. I dont do it to make money on or turn over at some later date.

If your into Donzi's for that reason then you better look at another hobbie. You wont get rich turning Donzi's over for profit.

I do it for the love, history and passion.

By the way...Saw one of the nicest 21GT's at the Lake Geroge Picnic that I have ever seen. I have to look and see if I to any pictures.

(NJ)Scott

Formula Jr
09-10-2002, 08:36 PM
It is also relative to where you are in life. If I won the Lotto, the first thing I would do... well maybe the second, or third; oky, maybe the fourth, but who's counting... Would be to buy the highly over priced Satan's Chariot. In a heart beat. Because I always wanted it. And if price be damned then, in a relative way, I wouldn't care if I got hosed on the over-evaluation or the fact that my geographical area is not suited for such a boat - I'd simply move to a better place of use. And while these dreams dance in my head sometimes, I also know that what I got is pretty damn good even if I have to be sensible about a few things...... After all, it isn't what you have, Its what you do that is important.

Everything in the world is worth exactly what someone else is willing to pay for it

That isn't exactly true Cuda. But we'll leave it for another time.... ie your tax dollars. :D

knee deep
09-10-2002, 10:12 PM
Like a good friend of mine says "There's an ass for every seat". I'm in the marine business and know better than to own a boat. I was looking for the bargain centre console project so I could go out and teach myself how to fish. Then bang, out of nowhere comes an ad for a 16 at a price that seemed, without investigation to be way too low. I called the owner, got the details, rented a car and became the proud owner in less than 6 hours. The boat arrived last Saturday, hell, I hadn't even remembered the paint color right, we lifted her off the trailer and removed the shrink wrap in front of my 5 best motorhead boating buddies. They were all there to see how big an error I made. A half hour later, one of them offered me 1/5 of what I paid for it, and I actually considered it. Then I remembered my first ride in a 16 at 4 years old, made 5-6 trips to BoatUS and got it running. The first time I hammered the throttle all regrets dissappeared. I'm not taking up fishing, I'm learning how to fix up my boat. I've been a Donzi freak since the age of 4.

I grew up in the Muskoka Lakes in Northern Ontario, you would not believe what the old wooden classics bring. There are enough of us around who remember the early fibreglass boats and appreciate them. Remember, one of these days, they too will be antiques!

Rick
09-11-2002, 09:09 AM
The point is not to make money on restoring old Donzis.I have restored enough vehicles the right way to know that. Guess I could never buy them cheap enough ....even if they were free. I restore things for what they are and the story behind them. The question is are these boats getting thier due compared to other classics (not just boats.) Maybe they are...just a thought. Good discussion though. Rick

Formula Jr
09-11-2002, 07:58 PM
....even if they were free. Soo..........true.
Believe me, we are not the true fanatics of restoration. There are folks out there that drop 40K into a 20' some odd wooden boat, that will never exceed 55 MPH.

When ever I go back to Maryland, somebody is trying to GIVE me a boat. "Get it out of my yard", they say. And I have to find some polite reason why I can't take it home with me......

RH
09-11-2002, 09:58 PM
I feel the need to chime in on this one! I bought my Donzi for the pure enjoyment of ownership. I figure that it is just like a piece of art that hangs on the wall, only a lot more fun. I love the lines, ride, sound, and just spending time looking at it. It is my "art piece" that I dreamt about owning since I was 6 years old and saw the first Yellow 18 classic on our lake. It is all in what your enjoy. I restored a childhood Century Ski Dart inboard a few years back. It will probaby never be worth alot, but it was a blast to have in my garage while my car sat out in the Iowa snow while I sanded, varnished, and refinished it. It got so bad that the local tavern owner sent me a bill for not coming in to see him! IT too is a piece of art in my world. Will they ever increase in value like the Vettes, Ferraris and Cobras? Maybe, maybe not, but they sure are a riot to own run and enjoy!
RH

Rich
09-12-2002, 11:30 AM
Scott Pearson hit the nail on the head..........
Love...History...Passion.....
And I'd like to add:
Style..........
Early Donzi's are just down right BEAUTIFUL
Boats have not quite reached the status that cars have when it comes to value although I've seen some very pricey Chris Crafts from the 30's & 40's
My two Donzi's are 34 & 36 years old and are valued by me beyond what I put into them or could sell them for. I've had people ask me to let them know if I ever want to sell. I doubt if people with old Bayliners get asked that.

Rick
09-12-2002, 01:16 PM
RH From Humboldt gave an idea for another thread. If someone has already started one like it let me know. Rick

Gritz
09-12-2002, 10:15 PM
Whatever the value, there's something to be said for any toy that makes you turn and get one more look as you are walking away.
Be it the ride you park out of harms way in the parking lot or the boat you catch one last glimpse of as you are leaving the dock.
Only one of the reasons we own one, as all who do know. :) :) :)

FlatRacer, aka BarrelBack
09-13-2002, 11:22 PM
I think the "forty year old" rule of collectables applies here. Forty to fifty is the age when men begin to have enough disposable income that they can acquire some of the things they've always lusted after.
Our opinions of what we think is cool, whether in music, cars, boats, bikes, or whatever, are formed at an early pre-pubescent stage when we're still impressionable. Thats why this period in our lives is referred to as the "formative years". It's when our tastes, as well as morals and other pieces of our psychological makeup are formed.
Look at the collector car market. Muscle cars are super hot because these are the cars we grew up wanting to own, and while Detroit changed (due to global forces larger than the big 3 automakers), we basically did not. We still want '69 Camaros, Chargers, Mustangs etc. And we're willing to pay for them and for their restoration and preservation, not to mention their re-creation (witness the explosion of Cobra Kit cars). Meanwhile, very respectable collector cars from the '20s, '30s, and '40s are rapidly losing their value because the men who coveted them are dying off.
The thing that makes nostalgia so appealing is the fact that certain sensory inputs such as particular shapes, smells and tastes can trigger memories of childhood. And, if you've had a good chilhood, these memory triggers can become something that we actually crave, if only for a momentary escape from our frighteningly complicated lives.
About a year ago, I went to a large auto swap meet and I came across some guys selling Schwinn Krate bikes. You remember them: ape hanger handlebars, banana seats, sissy bars, big honkin' chrome 5 speed shifter on the upper frame tube, big "Slik" rear tire and small front wheel w/ a drum brake on a chrome springer fork. Cool names like "Stingray, Orange Krate, Lemon Peeler, etc." Just about everything about them brought back a flood of childhood memories. Well I didn't buy one that day, but I soon bought all the books on them, then proceeded to develop a full blown obsession for them. I became addicted to eBay, hunting down all the parts I needed to build my ultimate Krate.
But why the sudden obsession? What does a 40 year old man want with a boy's bicycle? I hadn't had any yearning to own one prior to that day. I didn't even have one when I was a kid (I had a Ross Barracuda).
In retrospect, I believe perhaps it was a subconscious reaction to the 9-11 attacks. Somehow I was trying to find my way home to a simpler time in my life when things were, at least in my mind, a lot more carefree.
Therein, I think, lies the appeal of classic Donzis. Almost all of us can recall, even if only vaguely, the first time we saw one, where we were, which in most cases was out with our parents while riding in a boat. What more idyllic childhood memory could you ask for?
Sure there are more reliable, more convenient, even better performing boats we could own, and even enjoy. But how many of them can make you smile merely by looking at them?
As for what they're worth, I say buy only what you like, and spend only what you can afford. Whatever you do, make sure you do your research before you buy, not after. And make sure you drive one!!!!!! Disappointment tastes a hell of a lot more sour after you've invested uncounted hours and dollars restoring something than it would have beforehand.

IMHO,
Eric :)

Gary S.
09-15-2002, 02:07 PM
I have to add my 2 cents here,,after seeing a few asking prices being ripped to shreads. A classic Donzi, like RH's or my Hornet,,,Big Grizze's boat,,are not replaceable items, you can't just go buy one today, not to mention you can buy a BRAND NEW Bayliner for less money than some of these 18 to 22' Donzis cost in the late '60's and early '70's and that was WAY MORE than most people paid for a home then, and to top it off,, over a 50,000 asking price for a new 22 Classic,,, why wouldn't a 15 year old boat in excellent shape be worth 30 grand ???????? If they COMMANDED an extreme price new,,,, then someone who pays the big bucks should expect to get a higher than normal resale, I mean seriously now,,, everyone wants to compare a Donzi to a Corvette, or Harley and they hold SERIOUS value, anyone looked at the price on a mid '80's Vette or Springer??? If you want the prestige of the vehicle you are gonna pay no matter what.

olredalert
09-15-2002, 07:47 PM
------Ive waited to chime in on this discussion because I thought it might sound a little self-serving since my 69 Corsican is still for sale(I know,I know,without pictures).
------I also have some thoughts in this area.
------If you look at the wood boat world,you will see that the most valuable boats are the low production,exciting models.Chris-Craft utility runabouts(as nice as they are)are still around in pretty high numbers.Chris-Craft Cobras are exciting and rare,rare,rare,and their price reflects that rarity.Bench seat Hornets and Criterions are every bit as rare and exciting as CC-Cobras,maybe rarer.Corsicans and X-18s only slightly less so.As DONZI nuts we are caught in the middle.We want our old boats to be worth as much as possible,yet we dont want to pay any money for them ourselves(certainly an understandable desire).I strongly feel that rare DONZIs are about to have their day in the sun.If you know where an affordable rare DONZI is,and you have been on the fence about buying it,I suggest digging up a couple of those coffee cans in the back yard,because very soon the values are going to change.........Just the random thoughts of ol red alert,for what they are worth..............ol red(Bill S)

Mark Albers
09-15-2002, 09:34 PM
Donzi Aficionados wink

Okay ...
You want to spend your free time fixing up a Donzi
What about "Opportunity Cost"
(time that you could spend doing something else)
or
Enjoying one that runs

How many hours,days,months did you invest in a project boat
You have to consider that in the mix

If you make @ $25 per hour

Add that to the cost of your project

Mark 311 :cool:
Sarasota - - - W F O (close to the factory and far from a dream)