Donzi Marine 63-65

[BIG BAD DONZI]

Any Questions about those years?

[harbormaster]

Tell your story on how the Donzi was named...

[BIG BAD DONZI]

Don's close friend, Morris Levy, owner of Roulette Records, always called Don, Donnie. When the Formula 233 was named Cabin Crusier Of The Year in Esquire Magazine in 63, the text stated that one of the primary reasons for the 233's award was the way its interior was decorated. Morris, never one to pass up an opportunity to take a shot, told Don, "Geez Donnie, I guess we're going to have to start calling you Donsy" (the interior decorator). Don loved the name, changed it to Donzi and proptly named his newest line of Wynne/Walters designs, Donzi Marine.

[BIG BAD DONZI]

Don's close friend, Morris Levy, owner of Roulette Records, always called Don, Donnie. When the Formula 233 was named Cabin Crusier Of The Year in Esquire Magazine in 63, the text stated that one of the primary reasons for the 233's award was the way its interior was decorated. Morris, never one to pass up an opportunity to take a shot, told Don, "Geez Donnie, I guess we're going to have to start calling you Donsy" (the interior decorator). Don loved the name, changed it to Donzi and promptly named his newest line of Wynne/Walters designs, Donzi Marine.

[Formula Jr]

Some of the articles from around that period give one the impression that Wynne really had his own boat design business (Wyn-Mil Associates) going before, during and after Aronow's Formula and Donzi companies. Can you descibe what Wynne's relationship was to the Aronow Companies and if Wynne was just licensing designs to all comers?
Also, Wynne appearently was involved with Thunderbird years before meeting Don.
Can you shed some light on this?

[Bryan Tuvell]

Maybe I need to reread my book about Don A.
Bryan

[BIG BAD DONZI]

Jim was on his own when he first met Don in 1962 prior to the 62 running of the Miami-Nassau Race. Shortly thereafter, they struck up a friendly rivalry that led to Don hiring Jim and his partner Walt Walters (after the 63 Nassau Race) to design him a V that could outrun Dick Bertram's Bertrams. That first design became known as the Formula 233. Jim stayed with Don until mid 1966 when Jim went out on his own again. At that time he was hired by Merrick Lewis, owner of the Alliance Machine Company of Ohio and at the time, the owner of Formula/Thunderbird. Jim was hired as an independent contractor to design and experiment with new raceboats strictly for Merrick.

[Tony]

ALLEN BROWN...WHERE ARE YOU?

[This message has been edited by Tony (edited 07-03-2001).]

[Formula Jr]

Can you explain the decals, Swedish Flag and Lion over Dolphin that were put on donzi's and what they
mean? I have a theory, but its probably wrong.

P.S. The very first boat Wynne ever put his sterndrive on, in '58, was a wooden boat lent to him by Woody Woodson - then owner of Thunderbird.

[This message has been edited by Formula Jr (edited 07-04-2001).]

[BIG BAD DONZI]

Formula Jr., tell me your theory.

[Formula Jr]

Oky, Wynne was an offical consultant for Volvo, as he had licenced his improvement of Strang's design to that company - a Swedish company. So when the Donzi 16's in 65 were shown at the New York Boat Show this was a way of quickly identifing the boats as having the new propulsion system which was made in Sweden while the boats were made in th US. So you have both flags. Now the Lion over Dolphin Shows up after Wynne left, and designates the two big europian races - The Cowes-Torquay (Lion) and the Dauphin d'Or (dolphin) because Aronow was pretty much trying to market internatonally and elbow rubbed with the local royalty.

[BIG BAD DONZI]

Not bad Formula Jr.
During Don's racing excursions into Europe in 63 and 64 he came to feel that his boats had to have an "international flavor" if they were going to capture the world market. Almost all of the Donzi 16s produced beginning in 64 were produced with the flags of two countries decaled either next to or below the DONZI insignia. One flag was always that of America. The other flag of choice became the British flag or the flag of one of the Scandinavian countries, i.e., Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark, etc.
To the best of my recollection, the lion was derived from Finland's Coat of Arms.

[JimG205]

Where were you boating out of on Manhassett Bay back in the mid-sixties,and what type were you in?????JimG.

[Formula Jr]

Tell us about the Hornet. The original bench seat Hornet. Does it pre-date the 18.

[BIG BAD DONZI]

Absolutely. The Hornet was a Donzi original. The 18' was an after thought.
The hull was a 19' Wynne/Walters design and that design along with the 16' and the 28' comprised the original Donzi line. The 19' hull had two deck molds. One, the bench seated Hornet and the other, the Open Fish "St. Tropez." The original Hornets were only produced in British Racing Green and were called the Donzi "Green Hornets." Kleenex heir Jim Kimberly owned the first.
The 18' was originally known as the "2 + 3" and came out in 65, almost a year after the 16'.

[Formula Jr]

So the time line on the donzi models goes?
1. 16 Sport/Ski '64
2. Hornet and Tropez '64
3. The 28 '64
4. The 2+3 (18) '65

I know this is out of the time frame you have mentioned but what sequence did these
models come to be.

Baby 14 and F14 '67?
Corsican
X-18

Are there some experimental hulls we've never heard of that never made it into production, or very limited production? I ask this cause as a kid there was a Donzi Twin Vee drive Cuddy on my river that looked like a smaller 28. My 35 year old recollection was it was about 24 feet.



[This message has been edited by Formula Jr (edited 07-06-2001).]

[BIG BAD DONZI]

Formula Jr., you've got the time line correct on the 16', 19', 28' and 18. These were the molds that were sold to Teleflex in late 65. During the 63-65 years, the Magnum 35 was designed. It was originally intended to become the Donzi 35 but the molds were not completed before the Teleflex sale and thus, were not included.
While I remember Don tinkering with experimentals of various sizes in a couple of the warehouses he leased in West North Miami Beach, I do not remember any 24 footer. The baby 14s could have been Don's designs but he never produced any for the public while he owned Donzi.
After 65, I have no direct knowledge as to what designs and/or production models the subsequent owners came up with.

[Formula Jr]

Did Wynne ever relay the story to you of how he followed a freighter from Sweden to New York in a 22 foot outboard?

[BIG BAD DONZI]

Formula Jr., Jim never told me that story.

[ALLAN BROWN]

GOOD ANSWER ON THE NAME. WYNNE/WALTERS EXISTED BEFORE AND AFTER DONZI. WYNNE/ARONOW FELL OUT IN '65. WHEN WYNNE WON THE VIAREGGIO-BASTIA RACE IN '65, HE TOOK OFF HIS RACING JACKET AND SHOWED AN 009 SHIRT, AS AN OBVIOUS SWIPE AT ARONOW'S 007 AND 008. 64 TO 67, WE ONLY USED GEOGRAPHICAL FLAGS AND THE DONZI FLAG, WHICH LOOKED SUSPICIOUSLY LIKE A MERCEDES EMBLEM. THEY SUED OUR ASS, AND WHEN THE CHISHOLMS BOUGHT THE COMPANY, THEY DREAMED UP THE LION/DOLPHIN THING. THE 35' MOLDS WERE FINISHED (HULL ONLY) DURING THE TELEFLEX SALE PERIOD. TELEFLEX GAVE IT TO DON IN RETURN FOR HIS USING DONZI ON HIS RACEBOATS, AND HE STARTED MAGNUM (WHICH I NAMED AFTER A GAS PUMP IN AN OLD HUMPHREY BOGART MOVIE). WE FINSHED AND SOLD A FEW 14' DONZI PEANUTS, MOSTLY WITH VOLVO ENGINES. IT WAS A LETHAL LITTLE S.O.B. B.B. DONZI, MIKE, IS THAT YOU?

BROWNIE

[Lonzis Donzi]

Originally posted by ALLAN BROWN:
GOOD ANSWER ON THE NAME. WYNNE/WALTERS EXISTED BEFORE AND AFTER DONZI. WYNNE/ARONOW FELL OUT IN '65. WHEN WYNNE WON THE VIAREGGIO-BASTIA RACE IN '65, HE TOOK OFF HIS RACING JACKET AND SHOWED AN 009 SHIRT, AS AN OBVIOUS SWIPE AT ARONOW'S 007 AND 008. 64 TO 67, WE ONLY USED GEOGRAPHICAL FLAGS AND THE DONZI FLAG, WHICH LOOKED SUSPICIOUSLY LIKE A MERCEDES EMBLEM. THEY SUED OUR ASS, AND WHEN THE CHISHOLMS BOUGHT THE COMPANY, THEY DREAMED UP THE LION/DOLPHIN THING. THE 35' MOLDS WERE FINISHED (HULL ONLY) DURING THE TELEFLEX SALE PERIOD. TELEFLEX GAVE IT TO DON IN RETURN FOR HIS USING DONZI ON HIS RACEBOATS, AND HE STARTED MAGNUM (WHICH I NAMED AFTER A GAS PUMP IN AN OLD HUMPHREY BOGART MOVIE). WE FINSHED AND SOLD A FEW 14' DONZI PEANUTS, MOSTLY WITH VOLVO ENGINES. IT WAS A LETHAL LITTLE S.O.B. B.B. DONZI, MIKE, IS THAT YOU?

BROWNIE

Brownie, please turn off your caps.

[Formula Jr]

Lonzis,
BROWNIE CAN TYPE HIS POSTS ANY DAMN WAY HE WANTS! http://www.donzi.net/ubb/smile.gif
We are Honored to have him here.

[Lonzis Donzi]

Originally posted by Formula Jr:
Lonzis,
BROWNIE CAN TYPE HIS POSTS ANY DAMN WAY HE WANTS! http://www.donzi.net/ubb/smile.gif
We are Honored to have him here.


i agree!



------------------
'88 Z-21, bigblock, bravo

[ALLAN BROWN]

Everyone who won the Miami-Nassau AND the Around Long Island races are allowed to speak in capital letters.

BROWNIE

[seano]

Brownie, in case my statement was misinterpreted,
you can use caps all you like!! http://www.donzi.net/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by harbormaster (edited 07-10-2001).]

[Gearhead99]

Here, Here !!!!!

You may use ANY TYPE FACE you want.

Don't listen to people that want you to conform. Do your own thing, you know you're going to do it anyway.

Glad to see you here.

Thank you very much................

[Tony]

Harbormaster...
Threads like this one should be saved, maybe in the archives/history department.

[Formula Jr]

The Formula 27. Why did Don drop that designer and go with Wynne/Walters?

[This message has been edited by Formula Jr (edited 07-12-2001).]

[BIG BAD DONZI]

No knock aqainst Peter Guerke as he was one of the best but Don wanted results and he wanted results quickly. He wanted designs capable of obtaining optimum speed in the roughest conditions. Don played the game learning by observation and through trial and error. The more he watched and the more he competed, it became clear to him that the only naval architects with the abililty to design a V that could outrun Raymond Hunt's Bertrams and Sonny Levi's outstanding and unique Italian designs were the Americans, Jim Wynne and Walt Walters who, in Don's opinion were the two most knowledgeable marine engineers in the business. Peter Gurkes's 27' was a beautiful boat, but in truth did not have the racing lines Don sought.( Sure enough, she was purchased by Marlin Boatworks in North Carolina and became a top notch sport-fisherman) Wynnne and Walters were hired and Wynne and Walters delivered.

[Formula Jr]

Thanks, I was wondering about that. http://www.donzi.net/ubb/smile.gif
There's a great book called "King of Thunderboat Row", I'm sure you are familial with it, that needs a second edition, that is; if that Mike Aronow guy ever gets around to it. But I hear he's also going to be making some new boats of his own soon, so he might not have the time. Do you know anything about when these boats might reach production?

P.S. My signed copy has its own case: The only book case I've ever bought.

[This message has been edited by Formula Jr (edited 07-13-2001).]

[Christian]

F Jr, BBdonzi, et al.
loevd reading King Of Thunder Row. Its in a case not signed yet maybe one day? I bought it when i was taking finals in high school and did so poorley on them that my mother took the book away from me for a short time. But SEARACE is signed by john crouse, also a great book.
stay well
Christian

[Formula Jr]

The Civic Heraldry for the Coastal City of Dunkerque, France.
http://www.epud.net/~owen/dunkerq.jpg

Brownie,
You said the Peanut was based on a Glastron hull, was this a G-3 Hull?

[This message has been edited by Formula Jr (edited 07-16-2001).]

[Formula Jr]

..... from Edward Kiersh's "Smoke on the the water" article:

"David has his 313, a 32-foot split-console
recreational boat, "a variation of my dad's
27-footer, strong enough to pound through the
torturous seas," he says, while Michael is
finalizing plans to market a 24-footer, its
drawing-board name The Legend, and
featuring an engraved signature from his father.

"No one has a little Cigarette, but I plan to build
a real runner, a boat my father designed yet
never built," insists Michael Aronow, echoing
the passion that drives builders to breathe
noxious laminate fumes and to risk their lives
testing boats offshore. "Now that this beauty's
time has arrived, I'm going to make the most
luxurious, safest, easiest handling boat in the
world."

Inquiring Minds want to know........

[Kent Perroux]

At Ft. Apache there is (or was) some 24' "ARONOW" boats being marketed by Michael Aronow. They are very similar to the 24 Cigarette Firefox. These were about a 22 (or less) degree vee bottom.

The person told me this design was from Don, but he never built them.

[GeneD]

Wow! Whadda thread!
Hey Kent...Michael told me, if memory serves me correctly, that his brother is the one who was building the Aronow boats.
And hey, here's another thing that has been causing me quite a considerable problem with some people...what is the deadrise on a Cigarette? I was told by the CEO of Comanche (former owner of Apache) that he made both the 22 and the 24 degree when he was working for the King, uh...I mean Don.

[This message has been edited by GeneD (edited 07-17-2001).]

[Jimisaid]

Gene D:

From what I understand, Michael's brother has no involvement at all in the boat business. He gave it a brief try a few years back, but was never really that into it. Based on things I've heard, Michael's the one with the designs and it's VERY possible that something may come up them in the near future. I can't be sure, but that's what I've heard. Wouldn't that be a treat!

[Kent Perroux]

Gene,

The cigarette firefox has about a 22 degree deadrise. I believe only one has left the mold since 1987. (at a list price of 145K each I can understand why) A friend of mine had it built to race in Factory I last year.

There have been other versions of the 24 Cigarette that could have been 24 degree, but I can't say for sure.

Kent

[Gearhead99]

Yes, I had a 1981 24 foot Cigarette. It had a flat deck, windsheild and cable. It was 24 degree.

Looked like a 28 but a little shorter.

I had a good friend with a Firefox. Both were powered with 420 HP, 454's. I could run and hide from the Firefox. Faster and ran MUCH better in the chop. Boat was a Tank.

Really miss it too !!!

[Formula Jr]

The Outboard tunnel hull, Don brought home and then made a Magnum version there of, can you name the Italian designer.. Just after the Magnum boat there was a flurry of copies, DUO and Carlson. All based on this Paris six hour race boat. I believe these were the first production tunnels ever available in the US..... They were very cool...and very fast......Nothing could touch them with the new 125 mercs.

[Flash]

Was it Renalto Molinari?

[BIG BAD DONZI]

Thats correct. The "Magnum Missile" was a derivation from a design by the King of Outboard Tunnel Hulls, Renalto Molinari.

[Formula Jr]

What I find facinating is the fact that Wynne, was not a well known "Boat Designer" before Don Hired him to do the 233. he had a degree in Mechanics, not naval design. There must have been something Wynne and Walters had that convinced Don they could provide winner design. I mean, prior to the 233, Wynne had never designed ANY hulls......... ?

[GeneD]

Hey Kent...what ever happened to your ride on the Pantera?
I had an interesting conversation with someone from Team Pantera last weekend. I'm standing there in my team uniform, watching the parade lap, when all of a sudden the entire field turns around in the inside wall of the breakwater. Unlike the previous day where they did an entire lap of the course before the drop of the green flag. I was confused. I turned to this guy and asked,
"What the hey are they doing?"
He turned to me and said,
"They're having a boat race!" As if I didn't know!
It turned out to be the joke of the weekend.
As far as the 24 degree deadrise thing. I have an ongoing battle with a certain driver who is connected with Cigarette Racing Team over the deadrise of ALL Cigarettes. He says they are not 24 degree, won't tell me what it is, and that I should go get some brouchures.
Personally, I don't think he knows.

[Dave Strobert]

Didn't Jim Wynne design for Chris Craft in the late 60's. I had a couple Lancers that were supposedly designed by him. Is the XK19 hull a clone of the Hornet.

[Formula Jr]

Yes, Wynne designed the Lancer and Super Sport (a larger Lancer), but that that was in '64. We're talking about the Early Formula Days around '62. Prior to the 233, Wynne was the head of R&D at Lake X, but no hull design to my knoweldge.

[ALLAN BROWN]

The Magnum Missle was a copy of the Austrian racing champ and boatbuilder, Dieter Schulze. Don bought a 16' and a 19' and copied both of them. After we sold Donzi to the Chisholms, I worked the 1968 Miami Boat Show for Don selling the 16' missle. The demo boat had a 135 Merc, and ran 65 mph. It would make a 30' circle at that speed. Anyone with an underwear concession at the dock would have made a fortune, if you get my drift.

[Sweet little 16]

GOOD ANSWER ON THE NAME. WYNNE/WALTERS EXISTED BEFORE AND AFTER DONZI. WYNNE/ARONOW FELL OUT IN '65. WHEN WYNNE WON THE VIAREGGIO-BASTIA RACE IN '65, HE TOOK OFF HIS RACING JACKET AND SHOWED AN 009 SHIRT, AS AN OBVIOUS SWIPE AT ARONOW'S 007 AND 008. 64 TO 67, WE ONLY USED GEOGRAPHICAL FLAGS AND THE DONZI FLAG, WHICH LOOKED SUSPICIOUSLY LIKE A MERCEDES EMBLEM. THEY SUED OUR ASS, AND WHEN THE CHISHOLMS BOUGHT THE COMPANY, THEY DREAMED UP THE LION/DOLPHIN THING. THE 35' MOLDS WERE FINISHED (HULL ONLY) DURING THE TELEFLEX SALE PERIOD. TELEFLEX GAVE IT TO DON IN RETURN FOR HIS USING DONZI ON HIS RACEBOATS, AND HE STARTED MAGNUM (WHICH I NAMED AFTER A GAS PUMP IN AN OLD HUMPHREY BOGART MOVIE). WE FINSHED AND SOLD A FEW 14' DONZI PEANUTS, MOSTLY WITH VOLVO ENGINES. IT WAS A LETHAL LITTLE S.O.B. B.B. DONZI, MIKE, IS THAT YOU?

BROWNIE


interesting ......

[Greg Guimond]

To the top ...........:cool:

[Offset]

Lots of interesting reading in these four pages. Where did all these people go? Great stuff. What made you bring it to the surface Greg? Glad you did. :idea:

[Greg Guimond]

I have been rummaging through old threads trying to find information that might help me ID the 1965 Gerry Walin OB 16 over the months. No luck on the 1965 but you certainly run across some interesting stuff. I don't know but maybe Big Bad Donzi is Michael Aronow?

[BUIZILLA]

interesting comment by Brownie that the few 14's had Volvo's..

[woobs]

Great reading.... been going through a lot of old posts recently :)

[Carl C]

BIG BAD DONZI is Michael Aronow if I'm not mistaken. :)

[gcarter]

No knock aqainst Peter Guerke as he was one of the best but Don wanted results and he wanted results quickly. He wanted designs capable of obtaining optimum speed in the roughest conditions. Don played the game learning by observation and through trial and error. The more he watched and the more he competed, it became clear to him that the only naval architects with the abililty to design a V that could outrun Raymond Hunt's Bertrams and Sonny Levi's outstanding and unique Italian designs were the Americans, Jim Wynne and Walt Walters who, in Don's opinion were the two most knowledgeable marine engineers in the business. Peter Gurkes's 27' was a beautiful boat, but in truth did not have the racing lines Don sought.( Sure enough, she was purchased by Marlin Boatworks in North Carolina and became a top notch sport-fisherman) Wynnne and Walters were hired and Wynne and Walters delivered.

The son of the founder of Marlin Boat Works is still here: David Hartman, of Hornet Boats fame.

Also notice the courtesy Michael payed to Sonny Levi, a true genius and at about 85 is still working.
The following is an excerpt of a two part seminar presented by Michael Peters, probably the premier fast boat designer in business:

"In preparing for this presentation, I
came to further appreciate four books
that have probably meant the most
to me in my professional career. In
alphabetical order, they are: Dhows to
Deltas, by Renato “Sonny” Levi (published
in 1971); Elements of Yacht
Design, by Norman Skene (Skene’s own
1938 revision was recently reissued by
WoodenBoat Publications); High-Speed
Small Craft, by Commander Peter Du
Cane (first published in 1951); and
Naval Architecture of Planing Hulls, by
Lindsay Lord (first published in 1946).
Now, I’m what I call a pretengineer.
I’m not an engineer. I’m not a naval
architect. So everything I do relies on
somebody to set me straight and
interpret it. In revisiting these books I
realized the person I really learned everything
from was Sonny Levi. Anyway, I
would encourage people to read those
four references. Updated editions exist
in all cases except Levi’s.


I have all these books, and purchased them more than 35 years ago. If you want more than picture books, and really want to learn something about boat design, find them and read them.

One more point about Michael Peters, in the same seminar, he presented his "Peter's Principles" in which the main thing he says is: "Copy, Copy, Copy"

• Believe in the basic tenets of naval architecture. Never skip any steps
in the design process. No matter how tedious and boring weight studies
might be, they are unquestionably the most crucial part of design.
• Always copy someone. The only way to improve is to understand
what has been done before. Be a student of history. Always analyze what
others have done, both good and bad, in order to create a baseline
of design.
• Breakthroughs come slowly. Have faith that there will always be
another project, enabling you to try your ideas in controlled increments.
Resist the temptation to try all your ideas at once.
• Always get someone else to pay to try your ideas. A true design
breakthrough can be made only with willing partners who understand
the risk. Nothing new can be done without risk. Finding people who
appreciate this maxim—and give you the freedom to fail—is critical to
exploring new ideas.
—Michael Peters

[Greg Guimond]

George, is that "Marlin" the company that was out of Oregon I believe?

[gcarter]

George, is that "Marlin" the company that was out of Oregon I believe?


Michael's quote above says North Carolina.

[Morgan's Cloud]

Two things come to mind .
There seems to be conflicting stories on the origin of the Magnum Missile . And I'm not going to question either of the sources ! Maybe in time the facts will come out .

Secondly , Brownie continues to be a fountain of information . The story about how the name 'Magnum' came about is interesting to say the least.

I find it amazing how there's some off the wall story about how Formula , Donzi , Magnum and Cigarette all ended up with their names .

Especially when you put it in the context of today's business founder struggling to come up with a new and fresh company name that will never end up becoming a legend. Or just one of us battling over a name for our boats or homes .

[lars]

A quote from Allan Brown(Brownie).
Quote:
"Mike, I hope you don't mind my piling my recollections on top of yours. Two small points: The builder of the original wooden missiles, 16' and 19' was Dieter Schulze. The missile took up too much room in the small glass shot to create enough bucks to make it worthwhile."

A reply from Michael Aronow.
Quote:
"No problem AB, I welcome your input and appreciate the help, - after all, you were there on the street all week while I was in school. As to your post:
You are right on. Dieter did indeed build the wooden 16' and 19' and true enough, there was not enough room in the 'shop' to make producing the Missiles worthwhile when the money was in the larger Magnums.
One more interesting little footnote: The Missile molds ended up in the vacant field next to plant 1 at Cigarette, along with that large group of discarded molds and other mold parts, etc. and with all the change of ownerships going on over the years, I do not believe that any of new owners were ever aware of it."

A reply below from a fella that glassed them all.
Quote:
"A set of 16' molds ended up with Randy Rabe @ Rabco cir. 1977. I put together a few of them. (Hated crawling up in the nose to glass the deck and hull together).
Rabco sold and resold over the years but I think the original mold or a copy is still with them somewhere in Sarasota last I heard. Randy built somewhere around twenty of them I think."

P.S. Always appreciate when you honor Sonny Levy in your comments George. D.S.

[lars]

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/general-boating-discussion/168903-original-milestones-hi-perf-boat-design.html

I quote a few highlights from the thread:

#1
BROWNIE
My Boats:
4 BOATS KILLED :)
Location
MIAMI, FL

Original milestones in hi-perf boat design.

"In the late 50's, Ray Hunt built the original Deep Vee. It wasn't any faster in calm water, but it rode better in the rough. Dick Bertram had a 30 footer built (of wood) and ran it in the 1960 Miami-Nassau race. It averaged a blazing 22 MPH! A record that will never be broken! Since it was the 'only game in town', many of the former flat flat bottomed, tree wood, underpowered racers bought the fiberglass version, and it became the world standard of offshore racing. A 25' version followed, then the development of the Mercruiser and Volvo outdrives (instruments of the Devil). Engines got bigger and bigger, until some of the Bertrams could hit 60 mph. The Bertram/Hunt hull design was heavily patented, and was never successfully copied (who would want to)?

Along came the South Florida version of the 'carpetbaggers', who started cranking out deep vee's by the score. Who were they? A teenaged Harry Schoell did the Alim V-20, Jim Wynne and Walt Walters did the Wyn-Mil II, 17' precursor to the Formula Jr. Then they did the Formula 233 for Aronow. They later used similar lines to create the Donzi 16', 19', 28' and 35'. Long after, builders used those original boats to make "new" models. The 35' Donzi was given to Aronow by Teleflex in return for his breaking the non-compete clause (he did that a lot). The 35' Magnum was stretched to 38' then to 40', then to 44' and it got better and better as it got longer and longer. Then, they took the lines of the 40' Magnum, stretched them lengthwise a couple of feet, and expanded one and one quarter times to become the 53' Magnum. Aronow had previously used this trick to build the 49' Cary, which was exactly one and one half times expansion of the 32' Cary/Cigarette. The 28' Magnum, 32' Cary/Cigarette, 35' Cigarette were all Harry Schoell. Harry also did the 23' Magnum which became the basis for a hundred 7' wide hulls and boat companies. The was not much else. More later."

[lars]

#2
BROWNIE

Further to shrinking and stretching.

"Harry built the 28' Magnum for Don, and it became a popular racer. Don cut it down vertically to make the 27 and 28 foot Magnum Sport models. He swiped one when he sold Magnum to Apeco, and turned it into the 28' Cigarette. The 32' Cary/Cigarette was stretched to 36', then to 40', back to 39', up to 44' (Performer), down to 37' (Midnight Express) back to 36' (Mirage), down to 33' (Avanti) back to 32' (Contender, et al). The 35' went to 37 1/2", 38', 39' 41' (Apache), 44' (Slingshot), 47' (Apache), split for USA cat.
The 23' Magnum became P and D, Excalibur, Superboat, and maybe 50 others.
Linder did the excellent 21' Challenger which became, Apache and several others.
The 32' Cary/Cigarette and the 35' Cigarette are entirely different. The 36' chine was drawn with a #43 Kand E ships curve, and the 35' chine is straight for the first 12'."

[lars]

#3
BROWNIE

"Wait! There's more!"

"When Aronow turned the 27' Magnum into the 28' Cigarette, he added a second gunwale to the plug, allowing him to pull two different molds from the plug. The lower one became the 26' Cary, then the 29' Cary. In the same time period, Larry Smith of California bought a 27' Magnum, and amazingly, came out with the 29' Scarab exactly two months later. JC Simon took the 44' MSV and shortened the mold by dropping in a new transom and "conceived" the 38' Coyote, 37' and 33' Banana, Sonic, etc."

[lars]

#4
BROWNIE

More.

"In 1965, Aronow cut down the full height 28' Donzi and made the "008" mold, and made the infamous low-slung raceboat that won the 1966 Houston Channel Derby, with Don, Bobby Moore and me. Don and I were both 6'2"+, and we stood in it only to our hips. We won the race by going from a half mile behind to a half mile ahead of the Merc Offshore team in 2 miles, by never slowing down over some free-running tug and tanker wakes. We jumped so high, that the strut bearings would dry out and squeal, nearly drowning out my screaming.
We built 3 or 4 raceboats for Mr. K, and sold/gave the mold to Elton Cary to make the great little 28' Cary fishboat, which was popped to make the Salt Shaker, Performer 28 CC, and a couple of others.
The full height 28' was popped by Dickie Ridgeway, later becoming a 28' Performer. I think they (Performer, Billy Elswick) bought the 40' Cigarette mold, and made a 36', 40' and 44'. Cobalt popped the entire Donzi production line.
The 23' Formula turned into everything that Harry's 23' didn't, The 23' Formula and the 23' Magnum started more boat companies than you can count. If they a boat DNA test, Harry and Wynne/Walters would have a 'lot of 'splaining to do!"

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"My reference to Harry and Jim/Walt is that they were unwilling fathers of a s**tload of boat companies."
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[lars]

#5
BROWNIE

"The first successful modern step bottoms were designed by Bob Hobbs. Bob did the beautiful Enterprise sportfishermen.
Cal Connell, who built the Crusader Cadillacs (and Crusader Marine) built Hobbs designs in the Rybo Runner hulls and the Offshorer that is still built to this day San Remo or Venimiglia, Italy, just next to Monaco. They had the same Crusader engines used in the Riva's. (Quick question and answer: What is Carlo Riva's personal boat? 35' Magnum). The Offshorer had the engines in fore and aft tandem, with a wing box in the center, driving a pair of inboard style propeller shafts like a standard inboard. Very low floor, very complex exhaust risers in the transom. 3 steps, ran well. The step fad comes every 17 years, just like the f**king locusts............."

[lars]

The Magnum Missle was a copy of the Austrian racing champ and boatbuilder, Dieter Schulze. Don bought a 16' and a 19' and copied both of them. After we sold Donzi to the Chisholms, I worked the 1968 Miami Boat Show for Don selling the 16' missle. The demo boat had a 135 Merc, and ran 65 mph. It would make a 30' circle at that speed. Anyone with an underwear concession at the dock would have made a fortune, if you get my drift.

Legend Steve Sirois comment about the Missile:

Birth of the Magnum Missile.

"I guess this would be a good place to post an excerpt from a bit I wrote a couple of years ago on the "Life At Lake X in the 60's" thread. During one summer I worked for Don Aronow instead of working at Lake X. The following occured after returning from the Long Beach-San Diego-Long Beach race in 196X."

"When things finally quieted down back in Miami, Don asked me to rig a small tunnel hull that he had acquired. I had a little time in a Molinari at Lake X, so I took that project on with relish. I finally got the tunnel in the water and ran it around the area some. It crowhopped alot but it ran pretty well. I went back to the dock and got Don. We ran around for awhile and, since this was his first ride in a tunnel, he was thrilled. Also, it was his birthday and he proclaimed this ride to be a great present. He went back into the office and, as I walked by the parts room, I noticed an "elephant ear" prop on the floor. I didn't know who it belonged to...so...I immediately acquired it for Don's birthday boat. WOW! Now it flew like the Molinari had at the Lake. I went into the office and told Don he had to go for another ride. He said he was too busy... I finally convinced him that he had to go for another ride....which he did. He could not believe how much better it ran and told me to strip the boat immediately so he could pull a mold from it.....which he did. Thus was born the "Magnum Missle"." - Seeroy



P.S. Anybody that could post a photo of Brownie's cool ex. Missile(red with a Merc. Bridgeport), have a photo of it, but can't find it now. D.S.

[bertsboat]

Brownie is a wealth of information. He once called me a wealth of mis-information (I hope he was kidding)
And also, the Baby Donzi 14" is a half scale 28" Sportsman hull with a 24 degree dead rise. I was told this by Walt Walters himself.

[Marlin275]

​
The son of the founder of Marlin Boat Works is still here: David Hartman, of Hornet Boats fame.

George, is that "Marlin" the company that was out of Oregon I believe?

My father-in law purchased the Formula 27 from Don in mid-1964 and started the Marlin Boat Works.
He added a flybridge and created a high performance sport fisherman the "Marlin 275" = 27.5 feet long.
The company was originally located in North Carolina then moved to Miami and became the Marlin Yacht Company with new ownership.
It was sold to Grady-White around 1967.

I saw my first race in 1965
the Round Nassau Race
with White Marlin, the old Formula 27 against Donzi 007

We were in a Cessna 172
and White Marlin was winning
Don took a shortcut across a reef and won the race.

Met him briefly after the race
and have been hooked ever since . . .

Chad

[gcarter]

I got those details all screwed up, didn't I!

[Marlin275]

I got those details all screwed up, didn't I!

Some of the old posts are hard to find with the board's rich history.
It takes these Michael Aronow posts to put it all together.

[mattyboy]

In reviewing this thread and other historical info I was surprised to see that Don made such a powerful impact on the boating scene with Donzi and his real involvement in the company was very short. like a year and half to 2 years. the first production 16 shows in Jax in fall of 64 and by fall of 65 Teleflex is in charge.

[Morgan's Cloud]

In reviewing this thread and other historical info I was surprised to see that Don made such a powerful impact on the boating scene with Donzi and his real involvement in the company was very short. like a year and half to 2 years. the first production 16 shows in Jax in fall of 64 and by fall of 65 Teleflex is in charge.


I once read somewhere a long time ago that every single v bottomed boat built in the last 45 years has Don's DNA in it.
To be honest I think I would paraphrase that to say every v bottomed boat most especially built in the US and I'd include the Dick Bertram/Ray Hunt factor .

Quite a legacy ,for sure .

[Greg Guimond]

ttt .............