Bravo upgrade

[Greg Riach]

I am planning on upgrading the Mercruiser 260 drive in my Classic 18 to a Bravo 1. What do I need to change besides the transom/gimble assembly? I think I need to change the power steering? Yes/No?
Would you guys recommend an Alpha SS instead of the Bravo? I can get the Bravo transom/gimble assy for a reasonable price.

Thanks

Greg

[GeneD]

You mean, if you could find an SS.
Not too many of them around.
The transom plate for the Bravo should have the power steering set up as the Alpha. You don't mention an Alpha, but I assume you have one.
Bravo swap over pretty straight forward. You are going to have to trim the transom a hair, but not a big problem.
You 'might' need a new coupler. I'm not usre if the Alpha and Bravo share the same drive shaft diameter. A question that came up recently at a beer drinking session with some Sea Ray dudes. No one knew. Of course the guy who would have known, was home with the wife and kids.
You do realize that your motor has to come to do this job, right?
You would have to pull the engine to swap couplers too.

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GeneD
007
Melbourne, Florida

[This message has been edited by GeneD (edited 10-13-2000).]

[Greg Riach]

Gene
Thanks for the reply. I currently have a Chevy ZZ3(345 hp)crate engine in the boat. I am planning on an overhaul, new cam, porting the heads heads and installing multi-port fuel injection. Also I want to fix up the deck and dash areas.
The drive in there now as far as I can tell is a 1978 type I (Mercruiser 260). This was pre Alpha, but the Alpha upper and lower will bolt right in; or so I have been told. My drive has a more pointed nose cone on it than the other drives I have seen, this appears to be original, I can't see where it was added on. There are pictures in the registry under my name if you want to see the boat, also I have other pics of it.
I can get an Alpha SS for $2200, but I was concerned that parts etc. for it are getting harder to source. What is your opinion?

I am also interested in discussing fuel injection if anyone else has thoughts or opinions they want to share.

Greg

[Forrest]

That's a good price for an Alpha SS and with it's 2-1/2" higher X-dimension and CLE gearcase, it will most definitely be faster a Bravo. Also, it will fit your present "R" or "MR" gimbal. The SS should last a long time behind a small block provided that it is not worn out when you get it. For extra insurance, add a drive shower

If the SS is in good shape and you find that you don't want it, let me know.

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Forrest

[This message has been edited by Forrest (edited 10-13-2000).]

[Greg Riach]

Forrest

The drive is supposed to be in excellent condition, I haven't seen it yet, I plan on seeing it next week some time. Is there anything in particular I should look out for? I don't have alot of experience with stern drives. You don't think I will have parts problems down the road.
I tend to not sell the boats I have so I think this one is a keeper. If I don't want the drive I will contact you.
Any advice you can offer is greatly appreciated.

Greg

[GEOO]

Greg, I run a small block chevy with MPI. First I ran a Cutler system on my 383ci. Cutler sold out to Hyrel and now Holley sells the system. My new small block has Speed Pro's( http://www.tciauto.com/ecu/index_spe.htm )new ECU. I reseached a few of the other systems. GEoo

[Forrest]

Look for the usual - corrosion, leaks, excessive gear backlash, wear on splines, etc. Also, don't forget to check the gear ratio. The drive should be stamped somewhere. Most were 1.33:1, and some are 1.5:1, and GeneD's Alpha SS is something like a 1.78:1 - but he did that himself - and with great results, I might add! I'm running a 1.5:1 ratio SS on my 302 Ford powered '72 16 and have no complaints. If I could pick up another Alpha SS, I would use it to replace the TRS setup in my 383 powered '77 X-18.

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Forrest

[Greg Riach]

GEOO

Did you look at Edelbrock's system? Are you satisfied with the system you have now? I have read some good things about Speed Pro's system but you are the first person that actually has one. I know that Holley has had some problems in the past but they also have a new system out! In my past racing I have always had good results with Edelbrock so that is probably influencing my ideas here.
Thanks for your input, I appreciate it.

Greg

[Greg Riach]

Forrest

You are really starting to convince me that the Alpha SS is the way to go. This drive has the 1.33:1 ratio but I can always play around and try different combinations. I'll check the things you mentioned, thanks for the advice.

Greg

[GEOO]

Greg, Why do you want to switch to Fuel Injection? A carb tuned correctly will build the same or more power. However, a carb will never idle as well. I went with the Speed Pro system for the ease of tuning with a lap top. If you change component it will adjust the A/F ratio's for you by using a wide band oxygen sensor. I have a large cam 240's dur. .650 lift I needed the MPI to idle low(750 rpm).
The Alpha SS is a great little drive. You'll pick up speed, However the parts are getting harder and harder to come by. I think a new Bravo or even better a short Bravo would be a better choice. However, that will cost alot more. New transom housing ect.. GEOO

[This message has been edited by GEOO (edited 10-13-2000).]

[This message has been edited by GEOO (edited 10-16-2000).]

[Greg Riach]

GEoo

I wasn't thinking of switching to a carb. Edelbrock's system is a multi-point fuel injection system. The system I was thinking about is the "Performer RPM Pro-Flo for 1986 and earlier small-block Chevrolet.........#3500*"
Here is the link http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/mpfi_proflo.html
Please take a look and tell me your impression. This is a closed loop feed back system that you can dynamically change the fuel and timing settings etc. I don't know if this is as advanced as your system. I would appreciate your views.

Can you tell me more about the short Bravo, this is the first I have heard about it. As I mentioned earlier I can get a regular Bravo transom/gimble assy. Will this work with the short Bravo?

Thanks

Greg

[GEOO]

The Performer RPM Pro-Flo looks like a nice unit. Are the fuel pumps sealed for marine use? The ad states that it is a sequential fuel injection. That's nice.
Imco makes a short drive http://www.imcomarine.com/imco/brvfrm.html and I think Merc may be coming out with one.
GEoo

[avk]

FYI,
Arneson makes a surface drive upgrade kit for the Bravo drives.
Alan Klingen

[Fred Clarke]

Hi Greg:
It's nice to see someone from just down the road on the board. I have a classic 18 as well. The original setup was a Merc 350 with an Alpha drive. Over the summer I put in a 383 stroker and a Bravo 1 drive. The Merc 350 coupling fits fine with a Bravo. The only thing you have to do to switch is the new B transom assembly has two more bolts in the top of the assembly. These have to be drilled using a Merc drill jig. I got Bristol Marine in Port Credit (John Thom) to do it. Cost 1 hour - $70.

[Edward Donnelly]

Greg. I'm running a 1,000 c.f.m.tunnel ram but I chucked the ecu and used an Electromotive Gen 111 system works great.

[Greg Riach]

Update

I have purchased an Alpha SS, I will pick it up in a couple of weeks. Forrest provided a convincing argument for the SS, especially the reduction in the X dimension.
Thanks for all the info and suggestions.


Greg

[Greg Riach]

Fred, Edward

We should get together I would enjoy meeting and talking with you guys. Contact me by email when you get a chance and we will set something up. Greg.Riach@sympatico.ca

I look forward to talking to you

Greg

[GeneD]

Negative on the parts shortage for the SS.
Last time I was at "the Lake", I saw a whole parts breakdown for the SS. It is on microfiche and available through Mercury, though I'm not really sure how. I know that I can get the parts.
As for my drive, I am currently running a 1.50 ratio on the upper, and a 1.68 on the lower. I really don't know what the stock ratio was.
If you have the SS with the 1.3 ratio, that is the BB version. GOOD ratio to have with a high output motor. You should be able to run a 21 Mirage with huge success.

http://www.donzi.net/hull/DMR186110478/Donzi5.jpg

This looks suspiciously like a #1 drive with a nose cone. Or some kind of Pre-Alpha. What is that on the port side, external steering?
I will be very interested in how this SS set-up works on this boat. You should be able to get that SS on there with minimal effort. The holes may not line up perfectly, and you may run into trouble here. Forrest would know if these drives will fit that gimble.
What kind of prop are you running with that?
Oh and I misinformed the group recently, I actually have a 25 Mirage Plus on this drive. Love it!
Just got to fix my "nominal" performance.
I'm taking Rob Reid out tonight. He is in Orlando for a conference, and wanted to take 007 out for a spin.
Whew!
Got it done just in time Rob!
So maybe Rob can report on the tune-up performance. Hopefully, I won't have to break out that paddle again!

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GeneD
007
Melbourne, Florida


[This message has been edited by GeneD (edited 10-17-2000).]

[boxy]

GeneD, when can we expect the Rob Report.
http://www.donzi.net/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.donzi.net/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.donzi.net/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.donzi.net/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.donzi.net/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.donzi.net/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.donzi.net/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.donzi.net/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.donzi.net/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.donzi.net/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.donzi.net/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.donzi.net/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.donzi.net/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.donzi.net/ubb/biggrin.gif

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boxy
mailto:sboxma@sprint.casboxma@sprint.ca</A>
Smuggler's Cove
Ontario

[GeneD]

Boxy,
The "Rob Report" is up to Mr. Reid.
I'm sure he will be making his report/evaluation soon. He's meeting me tonight in Cocoa Village. Lee Werner Park.
He's bringing the beer, and I'm bringing the boat. Good combination!

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GeneD
007
Melbourne, Florida

[Greg Riach]

Gene

I think you are right about the drive. On the port side is a steering stabilizer. The prop is a Ballistic 14 3/8 X 21. I just purchased the boat in August so I have done nothing to it. I am now getting the parts together to redo the boat this winter. I will want to talk with you at some time since you have had success with the Alpha SS and that is the way I would like to go.

Greg

[GeneD]

That prop should work just fine.
You can email me, or dial up the phone number I have posted in my profile.
Look forward to hearing from you.

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GeneD
007
Melbourne, Florida