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oldLenny
09-29-2000, 11:02 AM
George,...Do you know the price (approxiamate) or a new ASD#6 drive?. In looking at your article on the replacement, transom rebuild, was it all that hard if you had a fresh 350, unaltered "new" stringers and a clean un-bored transom? Is it cost prohibitive compared to say a new Alpha 1 or SS? What do you need for a trans and what do they run in cost. I could have a project on the horizon and this intrigues me if it is not "way out there" in price. Are these things as "bullet-proof" as they say? Would you need to buy the rockerplates from Arneson as well? Does it handle better than an I/O leg configuration? Would you do it again? Lots of questions,...huh!

Jamesbon
09-29-2000, 11:21 AM
GEOO knows much better than I, but I've also seriously contempleted this route. I priced out USED equipment to the tune of the following;

ASD 6 Drive 1.5-4k
Steering, trim pumps < 1K
steering ram, trim ram $500-$1000
Used B/W or Velvet Drive trans $700-$1000
re-glass transom < $300 (based on doing your own glass work)

Plus anything I may have left out. Again, this is what I recall from doing the research about a year ago...

You might also watch the used boat ads for a rig with an Arneson. I found a 27 Cig. center console wBBC and Arneson for 5-6K down here in FL, but someone had taken EVERYTHING but the physical drive and engine. I'm talking, all pumps, rams, lines, and the prop were removed. One would have spent just as much trying to recover those smaller "nickel and dime ya to death" things.

Try this link for some basic ASD info. http://www.twindisc.com/p_sd.htm

woodsy32
09-29-2000, 12:19 PM
I was over at the Arneson Industries homepage, and you would not believe what I found. Check this out: http://www.arneson-industries.com/page6.html
Unbelievable!! A Donzi 18 with an Arneson Drive. This guy is in the registry, but he has no e-mail address. If someone could track him down maybe he could answer some of your questions. I also e-mailed Arenson to get some info. As soon as I hear back I will post it on the board.

Dave

Wondering how much a new unrigged 18 Classic would cost!!

MarkG
09-29-2000, 12:36 PM
LENNY

I have a 21GT with an Arneson drive mounted on a 3/4" alum. mounting plate that uses the volvo pattern, Trans. is velvet drive.
This set-up works fine. The P/O set this up over 12 years ago.

The thing I like best is how simple and straight forward these drives are. http://www.donzi.net/ubb/biggrin.gif

There are a couple of postings for ASD6 drives for sale here. http://www.offshoreonly.com/out.htm
(look in misc. section)

MARK >=^;>

CDMA
09-29-2000, 01:09 PM
Woodsy,

That guy with the arneson is GEOO. One of the most active memebers. He is on the board ecery day!!! You miss something? The post you posted on is directed to him.

e mail is

mighty.mouse@pop.snet.net

Chris

woodsy32
09-29-2000, 01:25 PM
Don't mind me.... I guess I am some sort of moron!! http://www.donzi.net/ubb/smile.gif I did not know he was one in the same as the registry did not list his e-mail. Anyway, that is one sick Donzi. Pretty neat setup with the Arneson. I wonder what a new Arneson setup costs compared to a new Mercruiser 350MAG/Bravo 1 setup? Maybe get a new hull from Donzi and have it shipped to Arneson to be rigged??

Dave the Idiot!!

GEOO
09-29-2000, 03:25 PM
I installed the Arneson drive last year. Repowered her this year, on a good day, light, she'll run 85. At 80 to 85 the hull is still pretty wet and therefore stable. I think I can find another 5mph if I can loosen up the hull. I'm looking in to Arneson Rocker Plates.
I think my set up run's more stable then other 18 Donzi's. It could be the drive being 3 feet off the back or the lack of ability to pick the bow up. Most Donzi's are rock solid until you trim up to air the hull out. Then they start to chimewalk. Also most 18's don't run external hydr. steering.
To fit a transmision you would have to push the engine 10 to 13" foward. It can be done, but it's very tight. The drive and set up fits me fine, but it's not the most user friendly set up, (with out a transmission).
Arneson 6 could take 700-800hp in a 18 foot boat without a problem.
If you wanted an outdrive, I would recommend an Alpha for a small block under 300hp and a Bravo for anything more. Sure an Alpha can take more but if I had a choice the Bravo is much stronger. Alpha SS are great, however they are not much stronger then a regular Alpha and they are out of production. Parts and knowledgable technician's to service them are hard to come by.
A new Arneson cost about $ 7,000.00, used $ 1,500-2,500.00. If you are lucky it will come with the trim & steering rams. Part's are inexpense, the rams are not!!
If you go with an outdrive you should add external steering, if your boat is going to run over 70. (Helm pump, engine pump, oil cooler, outdrive ram(s), hoses ect. $ 2,000.00 to 4,000.00)
If you are interested I will gladly send you pictures or measurements of the set up.
GEOO

oldLenny
09-29-2000, 04:31 PM
George,... A couple of questions more here then probably about 1000 if I do this in the future. What do you do for a water pick-up? and where is it located? Now, (everyone try to remain calm as I "try" and word this right) How do rocker plates help with getting it up? http://www.donzi.net/ubb/eek.gif I can see an Alpha/Bravo digging in and pushing up the bow and you doing eveything possible to bring it back down, (Bennett etc...) but once it gets down what can you do to the hull to get the slope and ascent again? A pad will stabilize the hull to a point but will not provide any forward lift. Is the Arneson ever level to the lines of the bottom of the hull and not ventilating?

GEOO
09-29-2000, 06:29 PM
Lenny,
The water pick up is mounted on the transom, on the port side.
Adding hook to a hull picks the stern up and keeps the bow down. (Wet Hull).
Adding rocker to the hull pulls the stern down and picks the bow up.(airs out the hull). The Rocker plates are an extension of the hull and can be controled to add hook or rocker to the hull.
At slow speeds (20-40) hook is good. The stern lift gets the boat on plane quicker and stops porposing.
At higher speeds flat bottom or alittle rocker helps get the bow up and reduce wetted surface (drag).
The Arneson drive has trim. My boat likes to run with the prop shaft at water level, slghtly higher then the bottom of the boat. GEOO

oldLenny
09-29-2000, 11:13 PM
:d Cool, thanks for replying. I'll let in on what I have planned shortly. I think it's very cool but not for purests.

Scott Elgas
09-30-2000, 12:57 PM
GEOO,

How do the arneson rocker plates work? I looked on their website but the picture leaves a little to be desired. You say that they are an extension of the hull which allows you to adjust the hook or rocker of your boat. So my question is this: If your hull was built with a hook in it, wouldn't you have to re-work the hull to give it less hook and more rocker when adding the rocker plates? Or maybe I don't know what the hell I am talking about. http://www.donzi.net/ubb/smile.gif Please explain them a little further.

Thanks,

Scott

oldLenny
09-30-2000, 04:53 PM
Geoo,... when you say $7000.00 US is that sterring/rams and drive complete? Does that include a trans? Could you put in a Velvet and turn the motor around and send a shaft towards the transom.
http://www.donzi.net/ubb/eek.gif What I have found here is a take off of a '74 X-18. The hull was produced by a very large reputable "Yacht" manufacturer, (yachts of which I am sure are floating around down there) They "Blueprinted the hull, added a stepped transom pad, removed all hook and rocker. The deck is as original but the integral cockpit has modified flooring arrangements to make it more comfortable while cruising and taking the angle into account. As well, there is access to the gas tanks through triple hatches in the engine bay area. Storage hatch up front. The outer deck comes with a monoque support/stringer system/ribs etc that is glassed to the deck and then sandwiched to the hull upon marrying the two halves together. There is no Balsa or Composites in the hull/deck and the only wood on the entire rig is in the transom. It comes clean, no holes anywhere, clean transom etc. Rub rail is on and the boat is fastened, (forever).Wiring/dash/steeering/drive/engine is all yours to play with. Hull and deck profile is identical to X-18 other than pad. Reports of the boat say 65-67MPH with a stock 350 (260hp) and an Alpha. (This remains to be seen) Hull lay-up can be modified to suit your individual needs but comes with an all hand-laid mix of Bi-axial and Tri-axial glass, light mat on first and then some Roven. (Bulletproof) The finish is beautiful, any colur for the hull side and deck stripe, AME4000 resins, Graphics extra, all in gel coat. No taped lines. As I said, this is not for purests, and might not be for me either, but it is local, it has some "additional" features and it can be easily customized in all areas. The original Company that did the take off couldn't get any interest in the beast, (hence why you never see a Donzi up here either) and buried the project. All aspects of the hull and deck have had minor changes made to create a "unique" boat and not a true copy. It is sold under a different name. There was only one (1) ever built and it is gorgeous. The molds are now in the hands of a true glassman, (member of an off-shore club "big boats" as well) lots of time on his hands as it is a hobby while trying to generate interest in the boat/style. Hard to do here...Best of all, a "NEW" boat, assembled as stated above, any colour, joined, no hardware is about $3500. US! This is why I am asking about your Arneson and its' Pro's and Con's. I am not trying to #iss any one off here on this pure Donzi site and as I said, I am just looking into it. I think I would rather have a "Real Donzi" but I have to think about how much everyone changes these things, (yourself included) to create a truly unique "Wild" ride. The end product in many cases is not what was offered from the factory or even close. If anyone is interested I will send pictures of the molds and a finished boat inside and out. $3500.00 for a "bare-hull is CHEAP http://www.donzi.net/ubb/eek.gif

GEOO
09-30-2000, 09:06 PM
Scot, Arneson Rocker Plates are an extension of the bottom of the boat. They mount on the transom flush to the bottom of the boat. They are controled with a hydraulic ram. The ram can bend the straight metal to a convex or concave shape thus adding rocker or hook.

Lenny,

Sound's like a great hull. Strong and light with a pad!!! New 18 Donzi's with Bravo's and 260 hp run about the same speed 65-68.
I'm not sure on the exact price contact Rik at Arneson Industries. http://www.arneson-industries.com/index.shtml
The drive has a four bolt flange. You can hook up just about any transmision and configuration. V-drive, jack shaft, direct drive ect... GEOO