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GEOO
09-27-2000, 09:21 PM
Ever since I installed my new motor the fresh water cooling system has lost fluid and the bilge would have antifreeze in it. Finally the leak got worse and I found it. It was a head gasket. The port head is off and the gasket is on order.
I was talking to the guys at Arneson about getting more bow lift. The best way is to move the CG back. Our boat's run faster with alot of trim. Why not just move the weight back? Gas tank weighs 200 to 300lbs with fuel and tank. Next time someone has their boat out, try putting two sand bags in the back and tell me the results. Or if you are racing someone, have your buddy move to the back seat, you should go faster!! I'll try it when my engine is back together. If I was to do it again I would mount two saddle tanks in the engine compartment. (Food for thought Chris)
The next best method is to add rocker to the hull.
The only problem with moving the CG back is the boat will tend to porpoise at slower speeds.
The deeper the drive in the water the more leverage it has to pick the bow up.
My 2pennies GEOO

http://www.donzi.net/engine/engine2.jpg
http://www.donzi.net/engine/engine3.jpg
http://www.donzi.net/engine/engine4.jpg

[This message has been edited by harbormaster (edited 09-29-2000).]

CDMA
09-27-2000, 10:12 PM
Geoo,

I thought about the saddle tanks. The problem is I would have to eliminte the outboard stringers which I would prefer not to do. Also to get enough volume I think it would constrict access to the outboard side of an already tight engine compartment. I see what everyone on the board does for negligible speed increases. I want my boat to be a really nice reliable piece. To move my tanks and compromice my originality and the rest of my boat is not what I want to do. With your prodding I have decided instead of using $1500 here $2000 here I am going to leave my boat the way it is and some day I will gut it and do what you did or most likely find a good hull ( either a 22 or an 18) and stuff a BB and and and Arneson and make a really fast Donzi. To me it seems like a possible thing to do. My boat costs me nothing to keep and $3000 dollars into a stroker motor and $2000 into a speedmaster really does not make sense to me. Factor in the exhausts and steeing and I am too close to ten grand. I mean I have some patience pick up a trashed core boat and work slowly over a few years and join the likes of all those mulitple Donzi owners.

I did some research tonight in the library here about surface drives and different types of lift. I will need a few more days but I hope by next week to have a few articles and copies of symposiunms sent to you. I mean I understand why my boat goes as fast as it does but off all boats I think yours has a lot left in it. The 10 mph we lost in the fin the other day can be gained somewhere else. With 600 hp and a surface drive everything I know says you should be over 90. So after my tests wind down this week I will see what else I can pull up.
Have you ever considered a pad? Especially before you paint?

Also you know what no matter how fast they are the Donzi's are the best boats out there. I mean I will only own a Donzi now because of the people. I mean if I had not bought a Donzi I would not have had all the great times with some of the most wonderful people. Running 4 boats last weekend and even mine sitting there in need of a tank was great. You know what speed is great but this stuff is just plain fun.

Chris

CDMA
09-27-2000, 10:13 PM
Oh and remeber speed is an elusive goal...you will never be happy there is never enough.....

Chris

Barry Phillips
09-28-2000, 07:55 AM
GEOO and Chris : I believe that with 600
hp on tap the Xtream X 18 should break
the 90mph mark also. I am no expert on
hydrodynamics, but I have been running
powerboats since I was 9, so here is my
2 cents. Serveral post back you voiced
a certain level of frustration that Hydro-
streams with 250 hp can run 90 mph,
these days bassboats with 150 hp will
run 70+. So what gives? These OB
high performance boats are to a certain
degree air entrapment hulls with flat
bottoms just about any bass boat I have
seen runs some kind of braket or molded
in extension box which kicks the motor
back and in some cases elevates it for
less drag, combine that with light weight
and this is why they are so fast relative to
HP. Deep vees from the era when Don
Arnow was at the height of his raceing
carreer where designed for hight average
speeds in ocean conditions. Even
today heavy traditional vees seem to
run better in rough race conditions. With
that said what will it take for Mighty Mouse
to hit 90mph. Im not sure maybe it can
be simple as the prop. I have noticed
that a lot of guys are running 19 & 21
pitch props yet the factory is delivering
boats with 23s could it be as simple as
more agressive pitch. Can you find
someone with a fast enough boat to
run along side of you in good conditions
and shoot vedio of you with various trim
settings to see how much hull is in the
water. With the motor running right, the
speed lies in set up and water conditions.
after that , hull design and lenght will
determine how fast you well go.
Good Luck
SO-SLO

GeneD
09-28-2000, 08:13 AM
Why is everyone blowing head gaskets?
Is there a re-torque spec that we are missing?
You guys have me running scared!

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GeneD
007
Melbourne, Florida

BERTRAM BOY
09-28-2000, 08:58 AM
Geoo & Gene,
Fel-Pro supposedly make a marine version of their "Fel-pro Blue" head gasket. They supposedly don't need to be re-torqed.
BERTRAM BOY

GeneD
09-28-2000, 09:39 AM
Well, yeah I've heard that.
However, I'm using NAPA.
For only one reason, they are right down the street from my shop. I don't remember reading anything about re-torquing though.
But most of the manuals I read say to do so.

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GeneD
007
Melbourne, Florida

PaulO
09-28-2000, 09:59 AM
Yeah Yeah, retorqueing!! Now that's a fun and convenient job!! I am looking into gaskets now. Wondering if I can use copper gaskets. The problem is that if you don't get the quench right, you lose lots 'o performance. The quench area is supposed to be approx. .038. If your piston top is .024 below the deck height ( this is common) you need a skinny gasket to make .038. Most copper gaskets are .040 themselves. Most composite gaskets like the Fel-pros are .035 or so. The old style steel embossed gaskets are .014. but, sealing sucks.
PaulO

woodsy32
09-28-2000, 10:00 AM
Whenever you build a motor, always recheck the torque after you have run the motor for about 4-5 hours. Also, you probably already know this, but you need to torque the head down in stages. Divide the total by 3 and thats what you torque to. For example, if you are supposed to torque to 90ft/lbs, then you torque the head in 3 stages of 30ft/lbs: 30/60/90. You also need to chase the threads in the block with a tap to make sure they are free from sludge that can give you a false torque reading. DO NOT put any oil or anti-seize on the tap or these threads as it will give you a false torque reading. Also, if you can, do not use one of those bar type torque wrenches... they are notoriously inaccurate, try to get a hold of a recently calibrated snap-on or similar high quality torque wrench. Sorry for the long post, I am sure you already know this stuff, but maybe it will help.

Dave

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Forrest
09-28-2000, 11:24 AM
You are right! Use "no re-torque" and head gaskets and re-torque them after the first run. Even no retorque type gaskets can loose 20% to 30% of the original torque values after their first couple of heating and cooling cycles. I know that it's a bitch to re-torque the heads since you must almost always remove the exhaust manifolds to do the job.

Before you install the heads, make sure the block deck and heads are ultra clean, dry, and true, and have the correct finish for the type of gasket that you are using. Also as stated above, chase and clean the threads in the block and clean the old sealer off of the head bolts. Don't reuse head bolts that have been used a number of times. Buy new bolts like ARP and be sure to use the recommend ARP Teflon sealer on the threads and ARP molly assembly lube under the bolt heads. The molly lube and Teflon sealer keeps the bolt-head and threads from binding from friction which will give a false torque reading. Use a calibrated torque wrench, too. Torque the bolts in stages, and finally once all the bolts are drawn up to full torque, loosen and re-torque each bolt one at a time. It takes a long time to install heads this way, but it insures that you get full and even clamping.

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Forrest

[This message has been edited by Forrest (edited 09-28-2000).]

GEOO
09-28-2000, 11:27 AM
Gene, Thanks. I used the Fel Pro Gasket. The compression ring was in perfect shape. The gasket may have hit one of the studs on the block and nicked the little blue sealing tape causing to blow out?? GEOO

GeneD
09-28-2000, 03:25 PM
Forrest,
Where have you been by the way?
Anyway, I went along with just about everything you said.
Now, Mercruiser recommends a sealer on the thds, but doesn't specify. I have been using Ultra Black with success. The moly under the shoulder of the head bolts is a new one on me. Never heard of it, though it does make sense.
The incremental torqueing is kinda standard, right?
But the loosening up and re-torqueing? I have never heard of that one before.
And for the record, where at the factory do they re-torque the heads. At which stage do they do this?
See what I'm driving at?
This whole re-torqueing thing is out of control. And while I definitely want to do this the right way, I can't say that I have ever heard of loosening and re-torqueing after the deed has been done.
So waht are you saying, after 5-10 hours of running, we have to take the manifolds off and re-torque? That I can live with, I guess. I can even live with the loosening and re-torqueing.
Just as long as I don't blow a gasket later on, it would be worth the trouble.
But again, where and when does Mercruiser do this type of thing, if at all?

------------------
GeneD
007
Melbourne, Florida

Jamesbon
09-28-2000, 03:38 PM
Hmmm, I blew a head gasket on the last 355 using "no re-torque" head gaskets, and I didn't re-torque them. She lasted about 3 months though.

Well, I got the 388 in the GT last night, no water lines or electronics hooked up, but the motor mount and bell housing bolts are in!! The rest is a piece of cake. Once I break her in on the trailer on the driveway, is it worth re-torqueing the aluminum heads at that point, or should I wait for a run or two. Either way, I will DEFINETLY re-torque the heads after she's experienced a couple heating/cooling cycles.

BigGrizzly
09-28-2000, 08:41 PM
Forrest you are correct. this is how I do all my stuff. Along time ago I put a head on an engine torqued it down and left it for a week whwn I came back to check the torque, they were all loose --the engine hadn't been run. As for trhe other question Cometic gaskets will make copper gaskets almost any thickness. Iwouldn,t use them with alum. heads because of electrolytic reaction, on a raw water system.

[This message has been edited by BigGrizzly (edited 09-28-2000).]

Forrest
09-29-2000, 09:36 AM
GeneD, everyone, no magic or secret knowledge here. Just read the instructions packed with every FelPro head gasket and also pick up an ARP catalog (http://www.arp-fasteners.com/). The ARP catalog goes in to all sorts of details on how to properly stretch their fasteners. If you use ARP rod bolts, pay particular attention to the method that they recommend for proper installation. . . BTW, in their instructions, they don't recommned the use of a torque wrench on their rod bolts, rather they recommend that you measure the length of the bolt when new, put the measurements on file, and then tighten the rod bolts evenly with plenty of ARP assembly lube under the nuts and on the threads until the bolt stretches a specified amount. A rod-bolt streach-gauge is recommended, but careful use of a two-inch micrometer will acomplish the same task. It will take longer to do the job with the micrometer since the rod bolt stretch gauge will measure the bolt stretch while tightening. When using a micrometer, you'll need to turn the nut a little and then stop to take a measurment, and then repeat the process until the bolt length is correct.

Oh yea, Gene. Every now and then I take a break for a few days from computers, the Internet, and everything else digital.

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Forrest

BERTRAM BOY
09-29-2000, 03:31 PM
Right.... That's why I said "SUPPOSEDLY" they don't need a re-torque....
BERTRAM BOY

GEOO
09-30-2000, 09:18 PM
Scot, thanks for the posting the pics.

I got my head & intake back on, put a pressure test on the cooling system only to find out the port head also has a leak!!!!! Well I think this means I have a cooling problem at the rear of the block, not an assembly or gasket problem. Who knows maybe I need a stonger water pump, high pressure pump, some how I need to get more cooling to the back of the heads?? Why did both heads blow a gasket at the water cooling passage? Maybe the engine overheated at the Dyno? Poor cooling distribution while I ran the engine in the boat? The coolant leak started before I ever notice the engine running hot. GEOO

CDMA
10-01-2000, 11:17 AM
Geoo,

I remeber looking at your engine and aren't you using a volvo stock marine circulating pump? That right there might be your weak link.

Chris

GEOO
10-01-2000, 11:59 AM
Chris,
Maybe?? I think the cooling system can keep up. However, the back of the engine is not getting enough cooling. Not to sure what's going on. GEOO

CDMA
10-01-2000, 12:31 PM
George,

Since you are running fresh water cooling you may want to try a high volume pump. They are not too expensive. Just a thought.

Chris

RickR
10-02-2000, 03:49 PM
GEOO
Antifreeze does not transfer heat as well as H2O so run the least ratio possible for your enviroment.
Also, Red Line makes a product called Water Wetter which helps with heat transfer.

------------------
RICKR
mailto:riggerb@aol.comriggerb@aol.com</A>

GEOO
10-02-2000, 04:22 PM
Thanks Rick, Was running lite on the antifreeze with Redline additive. Temp didn't seam to get hot until the fuild level went down. GEOO

rayjay
10-02-2000, 04:46 PM
GEOO,

Are you running a 400 style block with siamesed cylinders? Do your heads have all the "steam" holes drilled in them? Was anything welded on the heads or the block? If so, were the pieces "normalized" and then re-machined for flatness? Are those rust stains by gasket blow-out? Thought you had a AL block for your 434? Does it have liners? If so what are the specs for how high (or low) the liners should be above the deck?

rayjay

GEOO
10-02-2000, 05:06 PM
RayJay, I'm using Chevy Rocket Block. Iron Block, no sleeves. Nothing welded on. Heads are drilled for steam holes. The engine lost coolant, then overheated?? Maybe lack of coolant preasure caused a hot spot in the back of the heads?? GEOO


[This message has been edited by GEOO (edited 10-02-2000).]

GeneD
10-02-2000, 07:12 PM
This sounds more likely.
Low coolant will always cause a problem.
Okay, perhaps we have one problem solved.
But...wasn't the coolant leaking because of the head gasket?
The mystery deepens!

------------------
GeneD
007
Melbourne, Florida

BigGrizzly
10-02-2000, 08:55 PM
After leaving the post on GeneD's I remembered that i use a 14 psi cap on my heat exchanger because at high rpms I would blow out the vent to the catch can this stopped it and also stabalized the block temp. The Ford Clevland has heating problems anyway, mine are gone now. Not shure if the cap did it but it did help. While working at Honda, I was exposed to problems concerning alunimum heads and cast iron blocks (the Accord). the head moves ,by expansion, more than the block-so correct torque is essential. We also found that the more water used the more likely head corrosion and gasket failure over time. The heat disipation between 75/25 (h20/water) 50/50 is minimal. I use 50/50 in mine. This in no way caused your problem, this is just information. Water wetter was designed for racing applications where non lubricating cooling fluid is required. Works well with plain water but not as well with antifreeze.

GeneD
10-03-2000, 09:27 AM
Big G,
You know something? I think you have a point here, and a very good one!
The cap on the heat exchanger!
How many times has one of your buds had an overheating problem and you discover that his cap is bad?
Yes, yes, yes!
GEOO, if you were losing fluid into the bilge, could it be from the cap? Did you notice anything dripping from the overflow tube?
Wow, this is what happens when a bunch of guys get together. Lots of input. One of them has to be right!

------------------
GeneD
007
Melbourne, Florida

GEOO
10-03-2000, 04:03 PM
This is like playing hangman or Millionaire!!! I'm not sure. I don't want to overheat. I think I'm just going to switch to a raw water , crossover system from Stainless Marine.
My cooling system was off my 300hp stock motor. It worked fine with my 383ci but I don't think it will cut the ceddar with the 550-600hp. I know the salt will not be good on the alum. parts. I'll flush alot and try that salt wash additive. Then when I add the supercharger I won't have to worry about cooling?!@#%! GEOO

rayjay
10-03-2000, 04:05 PM
When I was road racing my 289 powered GT350 I had problem with hot spotting causing problems. Part of the problem was the rpm's I was using. I had to use smaller diameter pulleys to vary the speed of the pump, but to basically slow it down. We used a plate with various size holes in it instead of a thermostat, and the engine temperature was very sensitive to what size hole was used. The size hole had to be changed based on what course we were running. I also had a few different water pumps, all of which were based on the Ford HiPo AL pump. They were all disassembled, and the impeller and backing plate were fitted to the inside of the pump. Also the impellers were modified to try to stop cavitation at high rpm or change the rate of flow. The final fix was to control the flow of water to various places on the block by using head gaskets that reduced the size of some water passages to (if I remember correctly) increase the flow of water to the back of the heads. Now, special hipo / high volume water pumps are readily available.

There was also a spray bar built into the valve covers to spray cooled oil onto the head and valve springs. This helped immensely to cool the heads and also substantially increased the life of my valve springs. I don't know if it was getting the valve/rocker geometry right or the spray bar, but after that I never had a spring fail in a race.

GEOO, look for a heat exchanger from a high powered big block. Don't ruin all your nice work running the salt, and who knows what else from the Sound, in your engine. Also, if your heads were subject to extreme heat differentials, put them in your oven at 400 - 450 for an hour or so and then turn the oven off and let it come down to temperature with the door closed. This will take a few hours. This will help to normalize the AL. Then check them for straightness and re-machine the faces if necessary.

rayjay

[This message has been edited by rayjay (edited 10-03-2000).]

BigGrizzly
10-03-2000, 08:07 PM
Geoo, Rajay my 351 clevland runs too hot with a standard 350 merc. I had to have one designed Sen-Dur. Geoo you saw it at Orlando. It is 27 inches long and5.5 wide and it is a therr pass unit. it will cool a 454/330 and the exhaust system. it cools the 425hp Ford fine . the total system holds 3.5 gals plus the surge tank. I talked to a old friend about Your problem, he thinks there was improper torque (not retorqued after your dyno run), or weak head bolts or studs. he doesn't think it overheated because it didn't blow out the combustion chamber, which happens when overheated. Put it togeather with new bolts or studs try it than retorque.

[This message has been edited by BigGrizzly (edited 10-03-2000).]

avk
10-03-2000, 10:19 PM
Thought I might throw in my $.02 about torqueing. I build mostly vintage Porsche racing engines and what the Porsche factory has been doing is angle torquing bolts. A bolt can have as much as a 35% error in torquing because of high tread friction, bolt head to washer drag etc. What we have been doing is say torquing a bolt to 25 ft/lbs and then rotated to a specified angle usally about 90 degrees. This removes any error from friction.
Alan

GEOO
10-04-2000, 06:18 AM
Thanks Guys, I'm switching to raw water. New closed cooling system is too costly. In five years I could buy new heads for the cost of the system. Anyone interested in my 10 year old closed cooling system? I'll list it in the for sale section soon. It worked fine on my 383. GEOO

PaulO
10-04-2000, 08:55 AM
Geoo,
Put me down for that system. I will take it.
PaulO

BigGrizzly
10-04-2000, 06:07 PM
Geoo, not the system just the exchanger--about 400-500. Your going to raw water and Grimes wants to go with closed system. Closed system is the way to go. by the way did your temp guage ever to 250?

GEOO
10-04-2000, 08:38 PM
BigGriz, Not sure how hot it got? Temp gauge was pinned at 210. GEOO

GEOO
10-05-2000, 06:57 AM
BigG, I would like to look in to Sen-Dur. Do you havce a phone # and/or a contact person? Thanks, GEOO

Forrest
10-05-2000, 09:15 AM
Sen-Dure Products, Inc.
6785 N.W. 17th Ave.
Fort Lauderdale, FL 33309

Phone: (954) 973-1260 http://www.sen-dure.com

If they can't help, I have a contact from the Miami Boat Show that builds custom heat exchangers. That info is back at the house and I will post it here later today.

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Forrest

GEOO
10-05-2000, 03:12 PM
Thanks for the address Forest. I don't think I'll need it for awhile!!!
Well,removed the other head to find porcelain shraphel inbedded into my heads & piston, and scrapes on the block wall. The back cylinder, ?#7, overheated, blew the plug and pieces made a mess. Need to clean up the heads, slight milling, bore the block, new pistons!!!!! SH@#$$^%&#^*&*. Chris, I guess I learned a lesson. If you have signs of coolant leak or signs of overheating DON'T TAKE A CHANCE. Fix the problem.... Well the good thing is; Chris we were only running on 7 cylinders, that means we were 70hp short. GEoo no go

CDMA
10-05-2000, 04:11 PM
George,

Sorry to hear that. Makes me feel horrible. Well good luck with the rebuild and while the engine is gone it is a perfect time to paint....My spray gun is ready.

Chris

GeneD
10-05-2000, 04:16 PM
I'nm freaking out! http://www.donzi.net/ubb/eek.gif
GEOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hey, before you start making plans to re-bore, have you considered sleeving? I just did that to my standard bore 5.7L that I am building. They tell me it is perfectly acceptable practice.
And the cost was minimal. I was able to keep the standard bore with the rest of the cylinders, and the new cylinder looks just like that, NEW!
I think he charged me $80.

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GeneD
007
Melbourne, Florida

GEOO
10-05-2000, 04:31 PM
Thanks Guys,

Chris, No worries. I made a choice and learned a good lesson. I wasn't going to tell you guys, I feel so stupid. But I figure maybe someone else can learn from my mistakes. No $$$'s to paint this winter!!! Good time to flip over the hull and do some rocking.

Gene, I'll look in to the sleeving. I have to make darn sure I have no cooling problems this time!!!!!! HUM?? GEoo

Forrest
10-05-2000, 05:30 PM
I sleeved one cylinder in that brand new 302 Ford block that's in my 16 Donzi. Long story, but one cylinder got water in it and it stayed there for months, maybe even a year or more. Well anyway, I took the block to the machine shop thinking I needed a 0.030 overbore on all the cylinders. The machinist said "no way!" "Even a 0.060" overbore won't remove those rust pits." You have to figure that a 0.030" overbore will only remove damage up to 0.015" deep, and that ain't much! The sleeve job cost me $125 on my block, but that included "decking" the block which is necessary to trim the sleeve. Like GeneD said, it is a brand new standard size bore (again). GEOO if you do get a sleeve job, make sure that you have that block *totally* cleaned including all the oil passages prior to reassembly since they have to do some serious machining to install the sleeve . . . and all it take is one metal chip to . . .

Also, if you have damage to only one or even two pistons, Ross will supply you with an exact weight-matched piston or pistons to your original set, which will keep you from purchasing and entire set and (or) having to have the rotating assembly re-balanced.

------------------
Forrest

BERTRAM BOY
10-05-2000, 07:15 PM
Hey Geoo,
What is a Chevy "Rocket Block"?
BERTRAM BOY

MarkG
10-05-2000, 07:57 PM
A circle track racer friend of my sucked the bottom half of a Champion plug off in his SBC. He now checks for cracks & twists the porcelin when he gaps his plugs. You'll never know how many times the stock boy dropped the boxes off the truck.
Just a Thought!

GeneD
10-05-2000, 10:27 PM
MP,
Are you saying that my motor will fall apart?

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GeneD
007
Melbourne, Florida

woodsy32
10-06-2000, 08:42 AM
GEO...

If it were me, I would just go out and get a different block. By the time you are done sleeving (which I do not think is a good idea for high end HP applications) new pistons/rings etc... you would be better off starting with a new non-overheated block, you would probably be able to use 7 of your old pistons and save a couple of $$$. GM sells some pretty slick blocks out the door at some reasonable $$$. Especially where you are thinking about a blower. I would also use this opportunity? to balance the assembly. Just my .02.

Dave

Jamesbon
10-06-2000, 09:08 AM
Ouch, I feel your pain GEOO. I was there 7 months ago when I fried one cylinder of a hot new 355 that was only 3 months old. This time, I'm re-torquing the heads after break in, and before it even touches the water.

GEOO's Rocket Block is by no means a standard, "disposable" Chevrolet block. They're not cheap when compared to the standard SBC block. They have taller decks, wider oil pan rails, bigger bores, and are capable of producing 434+ cu. inches by providing the necessary clearance for LARGE CRANKS. I believe they use different cranks, intake spacers, cam bearings and a few other items. The other stuff is standard "format" small block Chevy parts. (I may have left something out) Basically you can stuff big cubes in a space previously set up for a SBC.

GEOO
10-06-2000, 04:14 PM
JB, Yes, The Rocket Block is a very nice piece. You pay more for the block but it comes CNC'd, all it needed was a small amount of grinding for the crank. Save alot of machining costs. You can build 455ci out of it. I don't think I'll have a problem going .20 or .30 over. But that means new set of pistons!! GEoo

[This message has been edited by GEOO (edited 10-06-2000).]

Rob
10-06-2000, 05:08 PM
Can someone explain the risk of sleeving this block? It seems like the least cost solution, and I can't think of any reason why it would be any less reliable.

BigGrizzly
10-06-2000, 09:01 PM
My contact at SEN-DUR is Winston.
I would like to see a plug from the opposit side , you got me curious

GeneD
10-07-2000, 07:31 AM
MP's got me running scared.
But I think he's still mad at me...bet that's why the call him the "MadPoodle".
The sleeve is supposed to be interference fit, does not go through anything during the cutting procedure, like maybe a water jacket or something. It's held in place by the gasket and head if anything goes wrong.
What's the beef?

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GeneD
007
Melbourne, Florida

GEOO
10-07-2000, 07:47 AM
BigG, I'll take some pictures next week and post them. The plugs looked good at the front of the engine. GEOO

Forrest
10-08-2000, 11:55 AM
Actually GeneD, when they install a sleeve, the block is bored to a precise size, which is slightly smaller the outside diameter of the sleeve. The sleeve is then removed from the freezer, and while its still ice cold, it is then pressed into the block. When the sleeve warms to the same temperature as the block, it cannot be removed and will not move. The head and gasket do not hold in the sleeve.

I'm sure that you can run into trouble if the bore for the sleeve is not aligned correctly, or if for some reason there is not enough meat in the area of the block to support a sleeve, which may be the case in blocks with a substantial amount of core shift. Though many small-block Chevrolet blocks have a fair to good amount of core shift, I would bet that a Rocket block has nearly zero core shift. To check for core shift, look at the camshaft bore at the front of the block. Notice how well centered the bore is on the raised boss for the camshaft bore. The best blocks have the bore directly in the center - but most are offset somewhat. Stay away from blocks that have the camshaft bore offset more than just slightly (1/8"?). Less is better! Blocks with lots of core shift means that one side of the bore will be closer to the water jacket than the other. Obviously, not good for even cylinder cooling. Furthermore, boring a block, say 0.125" or more for a sleeve, that has lots of core shift will make the block very thin on one side of the bore. This situation could lead to block cracking in that area.

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Forrest

Rob
10-08-2000, 12:59 PM
At the machine shop I worked in, we installed sleeves exactly as Forrest describes, except we didn't have a freezer to put them in, so we had to use the coke machine! We also used special "green" Loctite on the outside of the sleeve before we pressed it into the block.

BigGrizzly
10-08-2000, 04:00 PM
Sleeving is no problem done it for years never a problem. Just remember after sleveing boring past 406 is out sleve will get too thin. I'll call you monday need some questions answered.