Holman Moody motor's in a Donzi ?

[Lrry D]

did Donzi ever use Holman Moody motor's in any of there boat's ?
and what are some of the thing's to look for when looking at an old 18 Corsican ?

I found an old Colbalt GT500 it look's just like the 18 Corsican but it has a Holman Moody engine .

i'm a big fan of the engine .
i even have one sitting in a barn just need's a boat .

would it work in a Donzi ?

[Hotboat]

Holman Moody was a major supplier to Donzi with engines in the 60's & 70's.

------------------
Hotboat

[Lrry D]

The motor is out of an old Correct Craft Mustang ski boat an inboard .
will it work in the Donzi ?
i have the serial # how do I read it to find out what engine it is .

[Hotboat]

Are you sure it is a Holman Moody? Correct Craft used a lot of Interceptors.

------------------
Hotboat

[Craig]

Lrry D,
Check some of the old discussions re: the serial # for the Holman Moody engine. That info. is in the registry somewhere. Also, do a search for Holman Moody Automotive. They have a home page and they responded to some questions I had once about Holman Moody's marine stuff. The Cobalt GT 500 did have Holman Moody Marine engines and components (like Donzi) and were very nearly identical copies of a Donzi Corsican, excepting side graphics. Cobalt breifly made copies of 3 or 4 Donzi models. 16' and 18' Corsicans, 16' Sweet Sixteen (or Ski Sporter) and 18' 2+3. Cobalt called them GT-200, GT-500, XV-200 and XV-500, respectively. Probably all had Holman Moody stuff. The 3 (now 4) that I know of do. I have an old 60's Cobalt catlog that shows the 4 copied models. They are all HM with Volvo stern drives. Also know of one v-drive Cobalt/Donzi. Pretty cool.
Only made a handful of them, apparently in the late 60's. I would be interested in knowing more about the one you've located. Would love to see a picture.
Craig

[BigGrizzly]

I have the blue Corsican from the Orlando show. It has a H&M original however it is a 351 Clevland. These engines were different, the heads were big ports and small valves-for a clevland. These heads were only built for H&M. I have the heads but don't use them, am keeping for posterity. plus i have three engines to play with. my sister' 1966 16 foot cane with a H&M 289, now it a 302 in it, she did not blow it up she wore it out. She must bee abusive, it only took her 14 years to do it.

[Craig]

LrryD,
Slight correction on my Donzi styled Cobalt info. I said probably all of them had Holman Moody engines. According to my late 60's vintage Cobalt catalog that shows the 4 Donzi copy models, they also used Interceptor motors. At least according to the old catalog. Again, the ones I've seen have been Holman & Moody.
Craig

[Lrry D]

Craig The GT500 that i know of is one of 3? now 4 and it is #1 they want $16.900 for it .
and yes I'd love to see the picture!!!!

HOTBOAT . it is a Holman Moody and it is out of a old Correct Craft Mustang .

[Craig]

LrryD,
Are you interested in buying the GT-500? Can you get a picture of the boat and e-mail it (czimm5@juno.com)or post it? I'm curious about the color. Have only seen 2 orange ones. Old cataolg shows many other colors. I think I could probably get a few digital shots of the old catalog pictures and either post or e-mail them. They're kind of neat to look at. The copying went beyond the boats themselves. Even the brochures are basically detailed artist renderings of the 4 Donzi styled models that are positioned identically to those 4 Donzi models in Donzi's 1966 catalog (the Donzi catalog can be viewed on this site under archives for comparison -- pretty cool!).

[Lrry D]

Yes i'm thinking of buying the 18' GT-500 . is it worth the $16,900.00 ?

[Craig]

LrryD,
I guess that's up to a perspective buyer. The boats are, no doubt, rare. One story I've heard from an old employee of Cobalt is that they were licensed by Donzi to build the 4 Donzi styled models, but at some point early in their production had a "falling out" of some kind with Donzi, who then, understandably, stopped production. Another story maintains that they were just copied, without permission, and Cobalt got into some legal trouble as a result. I can't seem to get the exact story from anyone who I'm convinced should know. Why anyone would care after 30+ years, I can't figure. It's cool marine history. Either way, their limited production, I would think, would make them a piece of interest to boating enthusiasts. I was told, a good while ago, by Pack St. Clair (the President of Cobalt Boats) that only about 40 of one of the Donzi styled models (the XV-200 -- copy of Sweet 16) were made. I assume thats true of the other 3 models. I noted on an earlier discussion that touched on these boats that someone questioned the quality of them with regard to the fiberglass work. They thought they were probably not hand laid glass. That info. was incorrect. They were hand laid. Their old catalog says they were and an inspection under the deck and hull bears that fact out. So, assuming the construction quality is very high, I think a good gage of value would be each model's Donzi counterpart. One appeals because of the "real" name and I think, in the case of Corsicans, pretty low production numbers, the other appeals due to novelty and really low production numbers. Both are cool boats. Again, if you can get a picture, I would be interested. Will post or e-mail old catalog pictures, as I said.
Later,
Craig

[Lrry D]

Craig
I'll try to get some pictures this weekend

[Tony]

I've got a buddy here in Michigan with an 18' Cobalt, modeled after the Donzi Corsican. Orange, and in very good shape. Tried to buy it but he wasn't interested in selling...then he lets it sit in his barn all year for the last four years! $16,900 sounds very high to me, although, like Craig said, value is in the eye of the bidder.

P.S. There was a Corsican for sale recently, I think in BoatTrader, referenced on this site. A search should pull it back up, if interested.

[Craig]

LrryD,
Looking forward to seeing some pics. Tony may be right on the price. They may have set a high price due, largely, to the novelty of the boat. Still I think it ought to be in really good condition to pay in that ballpark. Keep in mind, these are just my thoughts on it. I'm no expert. Like anything thats for sale, they'd probably consider a decent offer. At asking $16,900 bet they'd sell between 10 & 15. What's your Holman Moody engine that you have? Ford 302 or 351 or something else? I've got a 1969 Holman Moody 351W oiled up and tucked away on an engine stand. Needs rebuilt. Figure I'll do that "some day." When it ran it was a great engine. 30 years wore it out. Thats a long life for any boat engine. It was never is salt. That probably helped a lot.
Craig

[Craig]

Hey LrryD,
Where's those pics of GT-500? No Hurry, I'm having trouble finding time to post the pics I promised. Shot digital photos of catalog pics, but they're a little fuzzy. Waiting 'til I can scan them instead. Hopefully that will achieve better quality!

[Lrry D]

pics of GT-500

[Craig]

Lrry D,
I see your reply, but I don't see pics?? Wassup??
Craig

[Kenn]

LrrtD,
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news BUT:
Cobalt made knockoffs of the Donzi 2+3 AND THE DONZI Corsican in 1969-1970.
Donzi stopped them.
The boats were illegal knockoffs and the were NOT made as were the Donzi's.
I was there in 1970 and according to Donzi's general manager (in 1970) the knockoffs were stopped by Donzi and the boats were supposed to have been destroyed along with the knockoff molds.
The Cobalt boats are easily distinuishable from the real Donzi as the Cobalt was made with some chopper fill in various parts of the boat and then the chopper area was covered with mat cloth to conceal the chopper.
If you know where to look you can find the chopper fill.
Also, the knockoffs do not have any Donzi identification numbers hidden in the construction of the boat.

Remember that chopper made boats have little strength and have at times split open when stressed.

While I would be interested to see the knockoff, I personally would not pay 16K for a chopper fill knockoff and I personally wouldn't pay 16cents for any knockoff made with chopper filler.

So who made me the expert on the Corsican you ask. Good question. I have owned the prototype Donzi Corsican serial #001 since about 1968 and I could go on but most of the folks on this site know who I am. If you want any more info, send me an e-mail.

Again, sorry to be the bearer of bad news.


******************

Kenn

http://www.donzi.net/ubb/frown.gif

[Lrry D]

have the pictures's scand how and ware do i post them ?

[Craig]

Lrry D and Kenn,
I'm not sure I'm convinced that all of Kenn's info is totally accurate. Here's the deal. I've been doing "spare time" research on the old Cobalt's for the past 15 years because of my interest in them and primarily Donzi's. Hadn't said anything up to this point because I'm not done researching the history, but my 16, that I have referred to, up until now, only as "my 16", is one of the Cobalt knockoffs, which I think is cool, as I said above, largely due to the novelty aspect and rareness. My plan was to finish a batch of history and pics for those interested when I'm done, but I figured I ought to defend these crafts a little at this point. Kenn, from what I can gather, is probably right about the legal end of the Cobalt/Donzi relation, but with regard to the chopper gun stuff and the general quality of the boat, I'm not sure I go for that. To some degree, I'm not even sure what the big deal is. According to an April 1991 issue of Motorboat magazine (pages 24 -27), Donzi used "2 and 3 oz. chopper gun mat" in various places on the 22 Classic ALONG WITH woven roving elsewhere (check it out). If the "bad relations" story is accurate, I suppose its possible that Cobalt didn't really use "hand laminated" fibergalass, but thats what their late 60's early 70's catalogs says. What Kenn says about the chopped glass being only covered with mat cloth seems possible, but hard to prove. The only thing I have to go by is that I've had the boat for nearly 16 years, and I have run it hard, and it is still very solid; noticably better glass work than other 30 yr. boats. I know the Donzi's are built rock solid (thats part of why I like them so much), but hey I've seen pics on this site of a Sweet 16 that was basically splintered to pieces. I would say thats as much a function of how hard someone beats it(no matter how tough), as much as anytihng else. Everything's got its limits.
My boat, as near as I can tell,is a 1969. I've "known" the boat since 1976. At any rate, like Tony said earlier, what someone is willing to pay, is a function of your interest in the item for sale. I will say again that unless its in really great shape, the price sounds sort of high, but most things are negotiable. I think Kenn's "interest/value" factor of 16 cents is just a little low!
Later,
Craig

[Owen]

Lrry D,

The easiest way to do pics that I've found is to get an account with Photo Point which the link below will take you to. This is simpler than setting up a ftp transfer/reteival thru your isp account.

Once you get the account in your name you up load a reduced sized file of the scan if its a large pic or allow photo point to resize the pic for you during upload. The easy upload feature lets you just browse your computer till you find the pic you want to up load then photopoint takes over. The files then end up in the incomeing folder of your photopoint account. Go to the incoming folder look at your pic and check the little box next to the thumbprint. Then select a destination folder in your photopoint account. You can create one called "boats." Go to the bar upover the move command and select the "boats" folder. Now click on move. The pic is moved to the "boats" folder. Now view the boats folder and click on the pic you want to show on the donzi board. Below the pic frame there will be a line that says url for this pic. Highlight the content of this line with your curser. Go to the edit function and click COPY. Go back to the Donzi board create your message and where you want the pic go to the edit button again and click on paste. The Url should show up in your message. Now infront of the url type a bracket and the word img and then a end bracket. At the end of the Url type bracket back slash then img and an end bracket. The help command on the donzi menu shows you more about the ubb codes and how they are used. Rely the message and see if the photo is there. You can always edit the message later. Good luck, I'd love to see one of those Gts.
http://www.photopoint.com/signup.html
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=943763&a=4289178&p=28137845

[This message has been edited by Owen (edited 09-11-2000).]

[BigGrizzly]

Craig, chopper, Motorboat mag and 1991 are all part of the omc era. Yes I did use small letters on purpose. Being in love with DONZI, the men, the vision, the family (all of us) and the total commitment of the Miller brothers and their staff , I call that time period "the dark ages of DONZI".
Like Kenn, we, my sister that is, still have our first DONZI. My dad bought it for us in 1966. It has been repowered because we wore the engine out. The boat has never been gelcoated or painted. It looks great,any one on the registry would be proud to own her. This is quality, this is beauty that is more then skin deep, that is where Kenn, myself and countless others are comming from.
I own a real Corsican and am proud of it! I know that wherever I take it, it will bring my family and me home safely because it is a real DONZI! I'm getting a little carried away, but this is how I feel.
What i would like to see is your 16 next to my sisters and that 18 of which you speak next to mine. By the way I drive my Corsican hard, it is not an orniment.

[Craig]

Gee wiz guys, I wasn't trying to down Donzi quality. On the contrary, if you look at my last entry, I was complimenting it. I was just trying to add a little of what I've learned about these boats and make a point or two in their defense. Oh yeah, Big Grizzly, you spelled ornament wrong.

PS- Maybe we could set the boats side by side some time to compare the two a bit, as you suggested. Check with your sister and see if that would be o.k.

PSS- That's pretty cool that your Dad bought your boat. I had to pay for mine myself.

[BigGrizzly]

Thanks for the slam-- I needed that! Maybe I came on too strong and I know my spelling stinks. As for dad buying my boat, some of us are luckier than others. In return when he retired I bought him a new Honda Accord and kept it serviced for him untill the day he died, now mom has it, she is 90. I just can't help it, I only have quality equipment. I now have two DONZIS, and am working on a third. Like I said some are luckier than others. You keep the spelling and I'll keep the DONZI.
Randy

[Craig]

Big Grizzly,
Glad you took my chiding so well. I was just funnin' you a bit. Good job buying your Dad a car. That had to feel good. Take care of those Donzi's ....Three?....Man you are lucky!
Later,
Craig

[oldLenny]

Craig. If I had a choice I would take a choppered hull anyday over a "Hand Laid up one." You have to understand the lay-up procedures involved. Once a few microns of Gel-Coat is applied to the waxed mold and dry the next step is the first coat of mat. If you have ever applied this, it is very hard, and the lines of the hull are still hard, (sharp) as the radius of the build up has not yet taken place yet. The worst part is trying to eliminate all the tiny air bubbles trapped in the soaked up first coat of resin and mat. The ones that remain will be the weak spots in the gel-coat as there is no backing for it. This will result in small puntures etc. If the next layer if chopped mat this does not come into play as it is not a knitted, flowing fabric capable of closing off to the atmosphere above, (your air). Simply strands of glass and resin blasted at the hull. No air or bubbles or rolling/kneading over hard corners etc. Great. Once. Now get out the hand laid methods. Bi-axial and trixial knits, roven etc, etc,. Roven should be a couple layers away from the outer hull as it's telegraphing qualities are strong. Yes, hand laid is definately the BEST, but first, while creating the outer finish, make sure you have a good air free substrate... (just my opinion mind you)

[Lrry D]

which is the better boat a Corsican or or a 18'Clasic ?
does one ride better then the other?
I'm on one of the rougher lake's in the land Lake of the OZ . if you ever been there you probably think I'm NUTS for even thinking of an 18' boat !
and if you've never been there well I don't even know how to explain it .

PS if any of you want to buy me a boat I would gladly except it . he he :-) .

[BigGrizzly]

Having driven both typs same day same lake maybe I can help. both have same hull but the Corsican is heavier of the two by 150 lbs. The brochure says only 50 lbs, but trust ne on this. The Corsican has the two buckets closer to the center, making it less sensitive to weight of riders. Except for the fact I know my boat better, they are fairly close. The Corsican blows less wind in your face because of the deck and windshield shape. he said mine was better, I think he was just being nice.

[Craig]

Lenny,
Thanks for the additional input on fiberglass. I'll add it to my library info. on the topic. Not having "much" experience with actually "doing" any fiberglass work myself, my knowledge of it is based mostly on material I've read on the subject.
I did actually build a wood frame and fiberglass hull boat of my own design when I was about 14 (circa 1974)in my Dad's garage. It didn't last long due to my level of expertise at the time and I eventually gave it a proper burial at sea (sounds better than "at lake"). Now there's a picture I've got to post if I can find a shot of it! It was about 8' long and actually had a deep-V hull(not sure of angle of deadrise - probably instinctively around 24) Framed the back for an outboard motor and schlapped our ole' 15 hp Johnson on there. Scary! My Dad really appreciated the pretty blue-green resin all over his garage floor. Oh it was "hand laid" too!!!
Craig

[Tony]

Craig,

Great story about the homemade deep vee boat and 15hp outboard...you've got to post some pictures! Interesting discussion about the Corsican, but apparently not too much actual interest in the one for sale recently.

[Rob]

Larry, I take my 16 regularly to Lake of the Ozarks. However I do stay away from the more congested areas (Niangua and Osage arms-good, anything from 4 Seasons to dam-bad!) and generally limit my stays to weekdays.

[Lrry D]

I'm at the 11mm at the lake ...

[Craig]

Tony, Lenny, etc...
If I did this right, here she is (click below to see pics). Ain't she a beauty?!!! Wish I had a shot of it running with the 15hp. As you can imagine, she didn't handle too good!
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1175682&a=8658263

[Craig]

LrryD,
I'm a little confused as this topic has jumped around quite a bit....Is that green and white boat (above) the GT-500 you were going to post a picture of or is it a Corsican??? It's a little dark and I can't see a name on the side, just flags which both have. I'm thinking its the Corsican due to the striping.

[boxy]

Craig, I'm not 100% sure, but I think that is Owen's sweet Formula Jr.

------------------
boxy
mailto:sboxma@sprint.casboxma@sprint.ca</A>
Smuggler's Cove
Ontario

[Craig]

Boxy,
I don't think its a Formula, Jr. I know a guy thats got one and it doesn't have that raised deck. Also Formula Jr's back corners are more rounded ("barrel-back like"). The reason I'm asking, at this point is that LrryD said (above) that he was going to try to post a pic of the GT-500 which is a copy of a Donzi Corsican made a long time ago by Cobalt. Whatever it is, its pretty. I've never seen a green one. That looks cool!

[Lrry D]

It's not my pic's i'll try to get them posted tonight

[Lrry D]

Trying to get these pictures posted is turning into more work then i thoujht .

[Craig]

LrryD,
You may have noticed, I have yet to post the pictures I promised as well. Showing my lack of computer skills! Keep trying. I will do the same. My 12 yr. old helped me the last time I posted a picture. Maybe I'll see if she can pencil me in for a computer lesson!
Embarrassed,
Craig

[Craig]

Hey Tony,
I did get my home made boat pics posted. Did you see them?

[Craig]

Hey Tony,
I did get my home made boat pics posted. Did you see them?

[Tony]

Craig,

Yes I saw them, and it was an awesome creation. You were truly a genius in the making!

[Lrry D]

I'm wondering if the Holman Moody motor I have that is out of an old Correct Craft ski boat a " INBOARD " can be hooked to an out drive ?
and what do I have to do to it?

P.S. Craig see if you'r 12 year old has room in the class for me and my college professor because this has us both stumped ?

[Rob]

LarryD, what is the rotation of your Correct Craft/H-M engine? To my knowledge, Correct Craft has always run reverse rotation engines, whereas the H-M motors in Donzi single engine applications are standard (by standard I mean same as the automotive application) rotation.

[Lrry D]

Rob,The bell off the back is all so H-M so would that make a defference and if it is reverse rotation cant i change it ?

P.S. You posting says you live at Lake Lotwana where practically neighbors i'm on colbern RD.

[Craig]

Tony,
Thanks for the compliment on my home made boat. She was a fine craft. Good for smaller bodies of water; like a bath tub.
LrryD,
She (my 12 yr. old budding computer wiz) says she's a little busy. I have scheduled an appointment in November. It makes me feel better that your college prof. is also stumped a bit. I think that means that if many of these boat guys know how to post pictures on a message board and a college prof. is struggling with it, that boaters are smarter than college professors. Cool! The sad part is that I must be dumber than both groups, generally speaking. Don't give up!

[Rob]

LrryD:

You can not easily change the rotation of the engine. Camshaft, distributor, crankshaft and starter are specific to rotation.

Send me an email and let me know where you live-rreid01@sprintspectrum.com

[Lrry D]

You'r telling me that the motor is turning backward . it's not in the gearing ?

[Craig]

LrryD,
Not to butt in before Rob responds, but, yes with left and right hand rotation engines the crankshaft (etc) rotate in opposite directions.
Saw a small antique 1 cylinder outboard motor once that the owner told me would actually start and run in either direction depending on how you wrapped the starter rope. If you wanted reverse you'd kill the engine, wrap it opposite the forward running position (i.e. counter clockwise if forward was clockwise)and then give 'er a pull. That was reverse. If you wanted forward again, you'd "reverse" that process. Pretty cool, huh?

[Emmo]

I was riding a little Montesa Cota trials bike once and while going up a hill, I stalled it. As I backed up, I eased the clutch out to bring it to a stop and it cranked up. Being only twelve at the time, I did not think about this phenomenon http://www.donzi.net/ubb/confused.gif, revved it up and let out the clutch. Much to my surprise http://www.donzi.net/ubb/redface.gif, the bike went backwards, racking my new jewels http://www.donzi.net/ubb/eek.gif in the process and throwing me in front of it. This was a brand new bike (still in my friend's Dad's inventory) and luckily a friend was standing nearby and he was able to stop it before it flew off down the grade behind us http://www.donzi.net/ubb/biggrin.gif.

------------------
Emmo mailto:emmette@emmette.comemmette@emmette.com</A>

[This message has been edited by Emmo (edited 09-16-2000).]

[klink]

Lrry
If you want to use your HM motor with an outdrive you can hoock it up to a volvo and still run it backward, just change the rotation at the outdrive to match a left or right prop to the engine.
As for motors running backwards, merc had a stand up 6 around 60 hp that you shut off and start up backwards for reverse. This left more room in the bottum end for a beefier gearset.
If you post the engine code or some parts # I might be able to to ID the motor for you, the J code on my 302 ID's it as a ford industreal engine (302 with 351 heads and cam).My parts boock only goes to 72.
I don't see any reason why you can't use the backward running engine on the volvo drive and show off the historic HM name.
Good Luck
Klink

[Craig]

Klink's post reminded me of something I've wanted to ask for a while but keep forgetting. How many of you Holman Moody Volvo guys still have the little "Holman Moody Marine" logo plated on your outdrives where Volvo normally had the blue and silver 270, 280 etc. plate? I picked up a regular 270 plate and slapped it on for fear of having the ole' HM marine one fall off and be lost forever.

[Lrry D]

Craig i'll E-maill you the pictures of the GT500 if it's ok with you ?

[Craig]

LrryD,
That'd be great. e-mail should be in profile. Is your e-mail in there? Seems like I checked once and it wasn't. Let me know when you send pics. Thanks.

[Lrry D]

Craig I'll try to send them tonight .

[Craig]

LrryD,
Did you e-mail pics of GT-500 to me? Haven't seen them yet. My e-mail adress is czimm5@juno.com
Craig
--Hey if worst comes to worst, I've heard tell of these rectangular galvanized steel aparatuses that people used to put things called "letters" into and around mid morning they would magically disappear and re-appear for viewing elsewhere. Think they were called ...mall boxes?... no MAILBOXES! yea thats it. I believe some people still use them. I'll give you an address if you want.

[Lrry D]

Craig did you get the E-mail with the pictures .

and Rob did you get my E-mail.

i'm not sure but my E-mail doesn't seem to be gitting through to any body

[Craig]

LrryD,
Nothing yet. Just checked (9/25, about 7:15pm).
Craig

[Rob]

Larry, I did not get your email. Did you use rreid01@sprintspectrum.com?

[Lrry D]

Craig did you get the pictures ...(-:...

[Craig]

LrryD,
Last checked e-mail yesterday around 6:00pm. Nothing yet. I'll check when I get home today (I'm not at my home computer and don't know how to check e-mail from a here - Duh!). I got the pics I told you about scanned at least. They look pretty good. Wanted to get them sharp enough to see the text clearly. Will post (photo-point) soon.

[Craig]

LrryD,
Checked e-mail this pm. Nothing yet.

[Craig]

Hey LrryD,
Here's a thought. Did you take the pictures of the GT-500 with a regular 35mm camera (i.e. do you have film negatives). I am assuming you did since you said earlier you were scanning them. My thought was, if it wouldn't be too much trouble you could mail me some negatives, I could get some shots developed and return the negatives, again by mail. This might sound kinda dumb, but I'm eager to see the pictures and this way I'd have some better quality photos. If its too much of a pain, thats cool. Just a suggestion. If its do-able I'll give you my address.
Thanks,
Craig

[Lrry D]

Rob did you get my 2nd try E-mail ???