Experienced Advice Sought On Vintage 18'

[FlatRacer, aka BarrelBack]

Hi all,

By the end of this summer, I plan to purchase a late 60s 18 "barrelback" for immediate use and future restoration.
The first candidate is a white/red stripe w/ a 351 Windsor, a Volvo outdrive w/ and aftermarket hydraulic steering setup, and no trim tabs. Why it has hydraulic steering and no trim tabs, I don't know. I assume someone was trying to correct a chinewalking situation.
Here's the question: For a little bit more money, I might be able to talk another guy into selling me his 18' barrelback V-Drive. Yellow w/ white stripe, with (I think) a 302. Now I know from experience that the v-drive is a b$#ch to steer in reverse. But other than that, I would like to hear your views on which boat I should go for and why. Both boats are in running condition and are in about the same shape structurally and cosmetically.
I've been on this board since February and I know and respect your experience and expertise.
How 'bout it guys, what do you think?

Thanks,
Eric

[Scott Pearson]

Eric,
The V-Drive is a rare boat. And its cool as hell. You never see them. But the othet boat I'm sure will be more pratical.

If it was me...I would jump on the V-Drive boat in a sec. If you pass on it please let me know. I would be interested.

Just my 2 cents!

Either way your gonna have a nice boat!

(NJ)Scott

[CDMA]

It all depends what you want. Me personally would want an I/O. If it was a second or third boat then maybe I would want the V drive for coolness but my 18 is my primary boat. While I like cool I want something that is useble and somewhat practical. Funny Donzi and practical in the same sentence.

The first issue with V drives is while they are cool you just loose so much speed. Look at Wa-Lo the 19 Hornet. Sure is one of the coolest boats ever but it takes 700+++++ hp to run 75. The other issue I have with the v drives is lack of trim control. Not so much for top speed but for general cruising comfort. Such as having the ability to lift the bow when it is rough, or drop the bow to maintain a slow palne.

The other issue we have here though is that everyone knows yellow barrelbacks are better then all the rest....including those damn pumpkin ones...

Chris

Pearson this is nuts....

14 Baby
14 fisherman
18 barrelback
18 barrelback
22 Arneson
28 sportsman

What is next.... wink wink wink
Still trying to get mom to go along with dad on the 14....

[Scott Pearson]

Eric,
Ahhh...these young kids...Go with the V-Drive. I would rather look cool. Think about it. You can have the boat on the trailer and be sitting in side and still look really cool.

Chris is right. I really think you should pass on the whole V-Drive thing. Now where is this boat?

(NJ)Scott

[David Ochs]

Eric, I share both Scott and Chris's sentiments, v-drive is cool but certainly not as practical as the i/o. You did ask about the hydraulic steering though. I would guess the guy installed it to help overcome heavy torque steer. If I used my boat more often, it would have it too. Enjoy whatever boat you decide on!

[CDMA]

There in lies the rub....

Alright Pearson. I guess you are right. I mean if you use your boat what 4 timse a year, consider getting airborne at Sarasota once an aberation, and prefer to look cool looking at the boat as opposed to looking cool in the boat then I guess you are right. :D :D :D

I do agree the V drive is cool but it just isn't for me. I mean if it fits what you want then it is right for you. The hardest part about answering questions like what boat is best is putting what I like and what I would do aside. While I would do the I/O this does not mean it is the only or even the right way to do it.

Chris

The proposed Pearson fighter....

-16 foot Donzi grey flat primer with home made rust stains
-Bullet holes on the sides
-Big "Death to pumpkins" flag
-Ratty seats covered in grease so when you go for a ride in the pumkin you leave something behind
-Ahhhh Gas turbine- little 300 hp allison. It would need to have an afterburner so you could relieve pearson of his eyebrows when needed
-Maybe a blackhawk on a 2 foot extension box so you could "wash" the pumpkin on command
-You might want to have a little red food coloring bottle that mixed with the roster tail
-Machine gun on front deck saying "the pumpkin gun"
-built in disposal for Pearon treats left behind in the form of retribution

I am currently accepting contributions...

[CDMA]

One more thing...

The primary use of the V drive in the 18 was when there was big power ( usually a big block) involved. So why a 302???? Sure there ain't or wasn't a 427 under there?

Chris

[CDMA]

Hmmmm so why would they do SB v drive???? What is the advantage?

Chris

[FlatRacer, aka BarrelBack]

I guess it was more of a rhetorical question anyway. In the back of my mind I know the stern drive is more practical, if only from a dockside maneuverability standpoint.
Ironically, I don't need my Donzi to be very fast. I still have my raceboat which will do 110mph(+?), so I can always throw that in the water when I feel the need for speed. Besides, I question the wisdom of giving joyrides to passengers at very high speeds. So, anything in the high 60s will be fast enough for my purposes.
I suppose also that the stern drive will be easier tow since it could sit lower on the trailer (lower center of gravity), which would also make it easier to launch on unfamiliar ramps.
I always thought that the v-drive version would be more efficient and faster due to the decreased drag of the smaller running gear as compared to that of a stern drive lower unit. Am I wrong?
Scott, I don't know for sure that the v-drive is in fact for sale. I'm just assuming it might be due to the fact that every year the owner (who gave me a ride once a few years ago) puts it into a rented slip and the boat just sits there all summer long. It's always there when I go by the slip and I never see it out on the lake. But I will call him, and if it is for sale and I decide to pass on it, at the risk of becoming an enabler to your addiction, I will surely let you know.
Seriously dude, I think you need a 12 step program. You collect Donzis like I collect guitars. Say it with me..."My name is Scott....and I'm a.....Donziholic"

Eric :) :p

[CDMA]

The v drives are slower based on the fact that you can not trim them out. Even though they have less runnuing gear drag they tend to run bow down causing increased wetted surface drag from the hull.

[FlatRacer, aka BarrelBack]

Hmmm....
I guess that makes sense. From what I could see the bottoms on the 18s are basically straight. I remember going around at the races and comparing the bottoms on the various classes of circle flats. The Super Stocks (single 4bbl 427 on gas) had a very slight rocker, while the Pro Stocks (500" alcohol) generally had more rocker, and the K-Boats (blown alcohol) had the most pronounced rockers of all. In addition, the SS boats had much shorter plates than the faster classes.
Getting back to the Donzis, I suppose adding Bennet type trim plates to a straight bottom wouldn't help pull the bow up. The only thing that would do that is a change in the drive angle, so I can see Chris' point about their lack of "trimability" with a v-drive layout.
The only ways I can see around that is to do the type of cavitation plate installation that you see on a flatbottom where the plate begins about 8" before the transom and is "warped" by the adjustment of the turnbuckle assy. via the T-handle and/or foot pedal. -OR- Install the new Arneson "rocker plates" that bolt onto the transom like a conventional trim plate but actually warp when activated to form a rocker extension to the bottom.

Hmmm.....

Eric

[CDMA]

Eric,

Take a ride out east. We can go for a ride...

Chris

[mattyboy]

Chris and Scott,

I'm begging you please stop!

Come back to us!!!

please put the boattrader down and walk away !!!!!

no harm no foul!

:D :D :D

Matt
almost wet my pants in the produce Isle between the "yellow " squash and the " orange" pumpkins!!!!!!! :D wink :p

Matt

[FlatRacer, aka BarrelBack]

Chris, Thanks for the offer.
We're going to the lake house tomorrow for the week. I'll be checking out both of these boats while I'm up there.
When we come back I'll get together with you for a ride. Sounds like fun. I always enjoy cruising new places.
I missed out on a ride with George Desmond in the mighty mouse motored X18 up in Lake George because of the rain. :mad:
If I manage to get the A/C installed in the Pantera by then, or if it's a mild day temp-wise, I'll drive it out there then I can give you a ride as well. :)

Eric

[CDMA]

That works for me. I have my own summer business so my time is flexible...

Chris

[GEOO]

Eric,
I like the V-Drives. They shift great, look awesome. Donzi made them in the early years because the IO's couldn't handle the power of the new 427 sideoilers. Donzi sold the 18 with twin carbs, 500hp 427's.Cool boat to find. Bow lift is the major problem I see. Moving the CG back alittle and adding adjustable cavitation plates would help. The 18 V-Drive needs to be a Big Block!!! If you have time this week, we could meet and you can go for a ride. I install the new seat for you.... :)

[CDMA]

Geoo,

Your boat shifts better then any stinking v drive... wink wink wink

[FlatRacer, aka BarrelBack]

George,

I'm on the trail of the v-drive as we speak (okay, as we type)! Sounds like it could be a real "barn-find". Good story: Divorce, needs work etc.
It's a small block so it may end up being a little nose heavy. But hey, if the price is right, who cares.
I'll keep you posted on the developments.
Gotta go, phone's ringing and I swear I can smell 90W! :D

Eric :)

[RedDog]

It you can make it work out - the v-drive sure sounds cool.

If she rides too much nose down, is it possible to install trims that push the stern down instead of providing lift (raise to provide down force - moves balance point to the rear - differs from CG?)

[FlatRacer, aka BarrelBack]

Tracked down the 18' Barrelback V-Drive today. She sure looks sweet with that uncluttered barrelback transom. Unfortunately her owner is not yet ready to part with her. Can't say that I blame him.
He's putting her in the lake tomorrow and he said he'd stop by the house to give me and the Mrs. a ride.
Maybe next week I'll bum a ride from CDMA so I can compare the V-drive to the stern drive.

Later,
Eric

[FlatRacer, aka BarrelBack]

Well, the guy with the V-drive put his boat in the lake, but he never came by the house. Just as well, as I threw my back out in the shower on Saturday. That'll teach me to bend over in the shower! Who needs clean feet?
Anyway, it's a moot point 'cause he's not selling. And I'm not buying....yet. Nicole says no more boats 'til I get rid of the raceboat that's already blocking up the driveway. Anybody wanna buy a Racing Garvey? 90 mph+. Just drop in a small block Chevy. $2500.
Oh well, as soon as my back heals it's down to the speed shop I go to assemble the 427 for the Flatbottom. 5th engine I've built for this boat, or is it the 6th? I've lost count.
Hey, at least I won't be bored until I get my Donzi! :D

Eric

[MOP]

I was looking through an old boat racing magazine, I am not sure if I still have it but I'll poke around. There was an article on an Itailian race boat, where the shaft angle was decreased a few degrees, the prop shaft extented to what looked like 18" with a box like transom mount. The rudder was full aft, tiller arm w/ hydraulic steering. They used a bow lifting prop and narrow but full width trim tabs, article said it improved speed but did not state % of efficiancy. I would love to build up a V- I think there is fun to be had even if a tad slower. Talk about Tough looking on a trailer Uh Ahuh!