Update

[CDMA]

Well finally a relatively trouble free weeked with the boat. I ran it and ran it and ran it with out so much as a stumble. I am thriller with how it rides, handles, and runs. I am running a solid 55-57 with a stock 350 through a 280 dirve. Max revs are running around 5 grand . I had Rich F out for a ride and had a nice time. Saw Sean O in his amazing 28SS which I love. Sean, Tell your girlfriend I will trade the 18 for the 28 anyday. The best part was when the guy in the brand new 42 (?) Fountain that was done up to the gills passes on my part side at about 70 - 75 as soon as he passes he spins his 1/4 of a million dollar boat around and paces me reading off the speed of his GPS waving his hands and punping his fist the whole time. That was truely amazing that this fellow who could afford whatever he wanted took the time to chase me. Cool....

This thing really is different than anything I have ever driven. I still have a lot to do such as much more hardware, the stripes and a million little projects but I leave for school in two weeks so for now it is good enough and the rest will have to wait till this winter to be done once and done right. I still want to build another engine more for my own self satisfaction and fun that for more power but while I am at it I think a little more power is in order. So as it stands I am looking for a solid 350 4 bolt non salt water core to play with. I wuld consider a BB but with tight finances unless it was too good to refuse with all the marine accesories already there we would have to pass on that. Also put the boat in the water in Amityville with Paul O last thursday and had a nice ride until we got pressure washed with pooring rain. That sh^% hurts!

There only is one thing left that bothers me that I can not figure out. The other stuff I know what I need to do but not this. If I push the boat real hard up into the upper 50's and run for a while every once and awhile the boat violently fishtails. Like enough to through you out if you were not careful. The first time it scared the **** out of me. I am running in dead calm water with the pedal ( hot foot throttle, which BTW is the best invention) floored and the boat does this fishtailing thing. I first thought it might be chine walk but this is more steering related than that I believe. I belive the problem stems from the steering set up. I have the EXACT same set up that was in PaulO's boat to the nut and bolt. There are all new bushing and when I put it all together there is little to no slop in the actual drive part but a decent amount with the big T steering. The tiller to drive connection is dead solid but it seems the slop in the cable/ steering is too much. I would prefer not to have to switch to external steering but I want this thing to be in control and absolutely safe even if I push it into the mid 60's with more power. I know Avickers did some stuff to his steering and was thrilled. Al, could you either connect me to the thread that was in or tell again what you did. I remeber something about the steering mounted to the bell housing as opposed to the stringer with a bracket like mine is. The stering torque does not bother me at all but I really am scared when the boat does this and
I am not scared easily. Any thoughts?

Chris

[RickR]

Chris
Glad to hear you finally got her togeather.
You need to find the problem immediately http://www.donzi.net/ubb/eek.gif
I am not familiar with the 280, is the propeller blowing out? What is your X Dimension? Do the RPMs go up when she fishtails?
Any play in the steering arm where it attaches to the wishbone?
BTW My 454 Merc Mag is in the For Sale section. You could use many of the parts on your 350.

------------------
RICKR
mailto:riggerb@aol.comriggerb@aol.com</A>

[This message has been edited by RickR (edited 08-07-2000).]

[CDMA]

Rick

I have not been watching the revs when this happens but from what I can hear and sense I would say no. Next time as I am trying to hold on for dear life I will see if I can sneak a look at the tach. I never thought of propeller blow out. I am running a nose cone but the x dimension is unchanged from the factory. I honestly do not think it is the x dimension because otherwise wouldn't I have problems in tight turns as well because as it stands I can bury either gunnel ( sp) at will and there also is no cavitaion coming onto plane. There can be a little in a tight turn but no more than any other baot I have ever experienced; high performance or not. I seem to be able to push this thing through turns fairly well. I really think the problem lies in the steering slop. I get a good bit of it due to the Big T steering. There however is minimal if any amountable slop in the actual drive part. I want to look into maybe the Teleflex rach steering which I know has less slop. Before I do though I want to see what Avickers has to say because I know he dealt with a similar issue.

BTW on another not the Volvo is some drive. Shifts smooth, easy and takes a beatin and just keeps going.

Well I have had a nice weekend with it so now it is time to tighten some stuff up and give the boat a once over.

Chris

[CDMA]

Rick,

I checked out the 454. Looks great but so far past my price range. I think I can stay close to $1000 definelty below $1500 with my engine by going pistons, a rebuild, vortec heads and a cam. I think I can get close to 350 hp like that and my engine seems to be great. It has all new marine pumps, dist, fuel pump etc. It was rebuilt 3 years ago and at that time it was bored .30 over. I know both previous owners ( PaulO and RichF) who seemed to really take good care of it. So despite the fact it is agaist my nature to do thinks halfway we do have to follow a budget so a lightly redone SB seems to be in order. I really have it in the back of my mind that I will pull mine out and take a look in and not need to bore or anything. Just drop new parts in and go. With the undoubtedly new amount of work that college will bring that I think is the way to go.

Chris

[AVickers]

Wow! Glad to hear the boat is running so well.

As for the handling problem, I'm not sure of what you have, but my boat never did what you describe. It would, however, hop to the side (or fishtail, I suppose) when running full out and and I pulled the throttle back. It was certainly unnerving. Mine would also hop sideways when running about 3000 Rs and I'd goose it -- only it would hop the other direction from when I slowed down... When your boat fishtails, do you think maybe you're momentarily losing power? An engine hicup might be enough to cause it to pull (like mine did when I pulled up on the throttle). Do you get a sideways hop when you goose it?

I finally came to the conclusion that the problem with my boat was the "Big T" helm and cable setup -- it was original, old and sloppy. When I took it all out to replace it with a new unit, the Teleflex poop sheet recommended it for lower speed/horsepower than what I had -- even though it looked exactly like what I took out.

I was spooked enough by the experience of driving the boat loose that I searched for alternatives. A zero-feedback hydraulic helm is, in my opinion, the only way to go. And you can go internal or external. External looks rather cool, and you'd have to find or fabricate a stainless steel or aluminum bracket to mount the unit to the top of the foot. I chose not to go external because I didn't like the idea of all that stuff hanging off the back of my boat. (On Cigs, it looks way cool. On a Donzi Classic, I just thought it conflicted w/ the "elegant simplicity" of the stern... And I didn't like the idea of someone crawling up the back of the boat using it as a grab rail).

I chose to go w/ an internal system -- Teleflex ram and helm -- mounted between the tiller and a pad I fabricated that bolted to the rear of the exhaust riser.

The boat is now docile. No hopping around at all. The only thing I would do differently would be to use the high volume helm instead of the intermediate volume unit. It would make the helm a little faster.

Looking back, the external helm would have been easier to install. With the internal system, I had to fit and remove the left exhaust riser about three times to get all the dimensions correct on the pad and install the unit. With an external setup, all you'd have to do would be to mount the bracket, install the ram at half throw and mark and drill the transom. Then rig the hydraulic lines and helm.

Also, the external setup would bypass all the bits and parts of the Volvo steering system -- could take some more slop out of the system...

[CDMA]

Avickers,

How much did the hydralic steering set you back?

Chris

[CDMA]

I think I like the idea of the external steering.

Geoo,

What kind of external steering did you use on your 290? and what did you use to mount to.

RickS,

Don't you have external steering?


Chris

[GeneD]

Chris,
I'm thinking that you are mistaking the fishtailing for chine walk.
The first time I experienced it, it scared the living hell out me. Try steering out of it.
You know, bump to the left, bump to the right.
Chine walking makes the bow hunt and the whole boat gets real unstable feeling. Yes, you can get thrown out on a violent chine walk.
This is what I'm thinking anyway.
How about trying a new cable?
I have very sloppy steering in my gimbal and looks like I need a bushing set, but I don't experience what you have.
Drive trim may help, also trim tabs may help. I don't really know about the tabs.
Perhaps go up a notch on the drive? Or maybe down a notch?
Experiment before launching a major campaign on external steering. I know a lot of guys swear by the external steering and it really is a good item to get, but not really necessary a lot of the times. Especially on basically stock motors.
As for your new Fountain buddy, I have experienced that and oh, what a feeling!

------------------
GeneD
007
Melbourne, Florida

[This message has been edited by GeneD (edited 08-09-2000).]

[This message has been edited by GeneD (edited 08-09-2000).]

[AVickers]

By the time all was said and done, I sunk about $700 in the project. If you have to pay someone to fabricate the manifold pad for the ram, it could add another $250-300 to the project. You could also place the pad off the inside of the transom and save a lot of aggravation -- I used the manifold 'cause that's where the original pad for the cable had been place and it lined up well with the tiller -- although I did have to move the pad out from the centerline of the engine about 4" (to accommodate the length of the ram) and up about 2 1/2" (so the ram would clear the lift mechanism's mounting boss).

My guess is that an external setup would cost more 'cause it would need to be purdier. As it is, my setup looks rather "industrial" compared to what would be acceptable for an external piece (painted pad and anodized ram housing, exposed bleed fittings, and no braided line coveres, baked finish, chrome plating or brushed stainless steel). You can just see the setup in the upper part of the top right picture of the boat in the registry...click the picture to enlarge it. Listed under Al Vickers)

[CDMA]

Thanks Al,

I am seriously considering it. I may be in touch this winter to pick your brain.

Thanks again

Chris

[CDMA]

I took the boat out again tonight and had a great run. It did do this " fishtailing" thing once but it was more controlable. I think it actually is chine walk. From what Gene says it sounds similar. I have put a dozen solid hours on the boat now that I know that it is worth my time so this winter in goes a new 383 ( hopefully) or maybe just a warmed up 350 and some form of new steering whether internal or external. Other than that, well maybe some trailer work too, the boat really is great. The paint looks great and the chrome and the interior really finish it off. I hope to get Scot some pictures soon.

Chris

[Blewbyu]

Chris-Chinewalk occurs at the very upper end of a boats performance capability.It is normally only possible to stop chinewalk by backing out of the throttle.As Gene mentioned,the boat gets really loose,as it is literally bouncing from one chine to the other and very little of the hull is IN the water, and the bow is usually up to the point of near blowover as it hunts.At your speed-I don't think you have chinewalk.
Next time you are out,and if you have enuf wind to give you about a 1' chop,run both directions-against the wind,and with the wind.I would be willing to bet that you only "hook" like you describe when you are going WITH the wind,and on about the 12th-15th wave @ 45-50 mph.If that be the case-look to the mount for the end of your cable.If it is mounted to the stringer by an "L" shaped piece of angle iron-replace that with an engine mount from Marine Hardware-or have the L piece reinforced and lenghtened to extend further down the stringer(toward the bottom) and add two more bolts at the bottom.If the bolt in the bottom if the pivot mount is sloppy in it's mounting hole-get the slop out.Betcha that will solve 80% of the problem.
P.S.Boat will also hook if you are wake jumping and following a boat-then turn outward from the center of it's wake...or whenever you approach a departing wave from quartering position.If you are perpindicular to, and traveling straight into waves,the boat should NOT hook.If it does under those conditions,your problem is much larger...
Regards-Jeff

[CDMA]

That is it to the T. With the waves 50 mph after awhile at that speed and
I do have a stringer mounted cable. hmmmm. I still think though I want external hydralic. I want to have complete control and coplete confidence and for that reason I think that might be the best bet.

Chris