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View Full Version : Who all has a drive shower?



Stix Magill
04-11-2002, 01:00 AM
OK. I am a novice and I admit it!

I didn't know what a drive shower was until an hour ago. Geez! Things are so easy if you give them a chance. For those who don't know (surely I'm not the only one :rolleyes: ), it is literally a metal pipe with a pickup nozzle that sits low in the water and channels water onto the drive. It literally showers the outdrive with water to cool it. This increases the life of the drive and helps to prevent oil breakdown, etc. Being a mechanical lightweight, I try to leave well enough alone, but this sounds pretty simple and very functional.

Question: DO YOU HAVE A DRIVE SHOWER?
I would love to have a "yes" or "no" followed by your comments. :)

Thanks guys!

Tomahawk
04-11-2002, 06:00 AM
yep - looks trick.

Sam
04-11-2002, 06:32 AM
Just put one on last week ! very easy to install.

Sam

boldts
04-11-2002, 07:07 AM
Our new 22 has one. You won't find to many high performance boats with-out anymore. Should be a discount on the insurance since it prolongs the life of the drive.

Bad-Tat
04-11-2002, 07:11 AM
Nope, Looks like I will have to go the custom route to get one to fit the Blackhawk.

Rootsy
04-11-2002, 07:13 AM
Sam,

where did you pick your drive shower up at? cheap insurance i think... wonder if BoatsUS or West Marine carry them???

so i guess that'd be a resounding NO at this time on the "do i have a drive shower" question

Ranman
04-11-2002, 07:38 AM
Yes, I run a Simrek "Halo" model for my Bravo. These showers are great and work very well. There are two versions, the "Summit" for Alpha's and the "Halo" for Bravos. Teey even work with most external hydraulic steering setups. Price is around $160.00. These keep the drive cool, clean and "chaulk" free. Lastly, the install is very easy requiring an hour tops. Here's the link, but it seems to be down right now.

www.driveshowers.com (http://www.driveshowers.com)

mjpcowboy
04-11-2002, 07:49 AM
Yes I have Drive showers. Not certain that it increases the life of the drive at all however I have had them on three boats and the amount of chalk that builds up without them vs. with them is dramatic. If nothing else it keeps your drive looking newer for a longer time. I have always wondered why Donzi doesn't put them on stock or offer as an option from the factory!! Very easy to install however :) 15 minutes per drive or less.

Donzigo
04-11-2002, 08:16 AM
I have a drive shower x 2 on my Donzi Z-33. Works beautifully. VEry cheap, considering what it does for you.

You should also investigate putting a thru-hull water pick up on your boat bypassing the intake through the outdrive. the increase in available is about twice as much. Again, a very inexpensive and very funtional thing to do. Keeps you engines very cool and forces much more water thorough the system. If you put a flush connection from the pickup to the front of your engine compartment, you can also flush your engine from inside the boat without having to fool around with the ears.

donzislsman
04-11-2002, 08:51 AM
mjpcowgirl,

You only have them because you are always looking for something else to con out of your salesman. Your 38's will bought by none other than yourself.

barry :p

clayman
04-11-2002, 09:05 AM
I have often wondered why Mercury Racing doesn't put these coolers on there drives if they are so great???? I was watching an APPA race the other day, and a driver commented on not using drive showers on his race boat, saying he wanted his drives as hot as possible to keep them loose. Do these coolers put the drive below the recommended temp? if you are tooling around at cruising speed in cold water, (great lakes for example) are the bearings running hot enough?

mjpcowboy
04-11-2002, 09:22 AM
Barry, You could buy a drive shower company with as much money you have made off us over the past 2 years. As for buying that 38 order me one with everything and I will trade you the 33 straight across and buy my own drive showers. You should let all these fine Donzi people know you put on my used showers from our 33 on this new one!!! Hopefully the money you saved on the showers you can buy some more of those fancy shoes you have. Have a great day and sell some more of those Donzi's. I know you have a beautiful used 33 that you stold!! See Ya Soon! Rick eek!

Digger
04-11-2002, 10:40 AM
Yes, just put them on. Simrek's (see above link)

RickSE
04-11-2002, 12:31 PM
Yes, I have one. Made my own out of 304 Stainless. I can see it working while skiing.

http://www.donzi.net/hull/DNAC8031L596/18_7.jpg

mattyboy
04-11-2002, 01:12 PM
never understood why you need a shower to cool a drive that is sitting half in the water and picks
up water and pumps it to the engine? someone gotta explain that to me. the volvo has vent that allows water to flow around the unit coll the oil and then recirculate the cool oil to the top oif the unit? is this one of them oxymoron or am I just a moron? eek!

Matt

Digger
04-11-2002, 01:29 PM
not to be a wise ass, but think of it this way:

put a hot heat pad on your shoulder...stick your arm half way into a bucket of ice water...no matter how long you leave it there, your shoulder will still be hot.

In most applications, there is not enough coolant flow internally to adequately counteract the tremendous amount of heat being generated.

There is a more scientific way to explain it, but I failed Thermodynamics in college. :rolleyes:

mattyboy
04-11-2002, 01:50 PM
good analogy Digger but take it a step further my arm is the pick up for water that is pumped to my head( the engine) it has to pass my shoulder so couldn't it drop of some cool water for my shoulder and send the rest to my head? does the drive shower have a pump or is it force driven? like the cooling vents on the volvo?
does that make sense? making sense and me never are used in the same sentence!
and I would never call I guy who flies helo's a wise ass! :D plus your boat is bigger then mine wink

Matt

Rootsy
04-11-2002, 02:25 PM
what you're cooling with a drive shower are the bearings and races in the upper half. There is no water circulation around this area such as would be around a cylinder in an engine block or combustion chamber in a cylinder head. The water pickup exits below the gears and the majority of the gear lube is in the bottom of the sterndrive and is pumped to the upper half through a rather small orfice (1/8 inch or so) in an alpha. At higher RPM for extended periods you can generate a lot of heat. remember, your input shaft in the upper is spinning at engine speed and a lot of heat can be generated.. faster than the oil and the aluminum housing can conduct it away...

mattyboy
04-11-2002, 02:42 PM
I realize the heat generated, and I know the benefits of a drive shower just a little puzzled that they are not original equipment or incorparated into the factory design?
are they force driven? or pumped? they only spray the housing?
sorry for the stupidity

Matt

Digger
04-11-2002, 02:58 PM
Actually it's easy for me to be a wiseass, just ask my brother :D

The amount of water that comes through the drive shower is purely a function of how fast you are going, there is no pump or other mech devices to assist. Just a tube, with a hole in the bottom, facing forward. All the showers I've seen spray the top area of the drive only, the spray patterns are a little different model to model.

I went with Simrek because he's got a good website with good info and he seemed like he knew what the h--- he was talking about on the phone.
Maybe Rick could start a little side business seeing as he made his own wink

Sam
04-11-2002, 04:22 PM
Jamie, I paid 110.00 form my Simrek kit.

Sam

Forrest
04-11-2002, 04:41 PM
I feel left out. Do the make one for a Volvo-Penta Aquamatic, a TRS, or an Alpha SS? I probably should get one for my Alpha SS, but since I push so little weight with it on my 16, I sort of wonder if it would do any good.

Doug L.
04-11-2002, 05:16 PM
I have a IMCO it's bulit into
the wing plate.
I don't think the oil in a Alpha moves
much my SS only have one small passage
from lower to upper.
Doug

Sam
04-11-2002, 05:32 PM
Doug, call me if you can tonight, I want to talk to you regarding the 23" labed prop.

Sam
734-420-0521

Stix Magill
04-11-2002, 07:35 PM
Thanks for everyone's input. The simplicity and the low cost make this modification attractive to me. So far the stats are:

5 without drive showers

9 with drive showers

Stix Magill
04-11-2002, 09:26 PM
The Simrek seems to be the one to get. To those who have the driveshower installed, could we get a very good picture of the drive (especially the holes throught the cavitation plate).

Stix Magill
04-11-2002, 09:33 PM
Poodle,

Good idea! Maybe we can get a 6 pc. order together. What is the percentage discount?

I am going to get one!

KRAVEN
04-11-2002, 10:05 PM
yes i have a drive shower on my bravo xr drive.the unit is the halo style made by simerk

farmer tx
04-12-2002, 12:07 AM
Yes,Simrek on a Alpha 1 drive.The simplicity,no moving parts, is what sold me.

CnV & Family
04-12-2002, 06:04 AM
Well, I must confess... I had no idea what a drive shower was until this thread...

Sounds like a good investment, the concept seems sound, but do we really know that this increases drive life? It seems logical, but does it in fact do as such?

-C

Bad-Tat
04-12-2002, 06:54 AM
Actually the Simrek one doesn't fit a Blackhawk! Have one in hand and it's way too tall. Got to thinking about it and if it's going to pick up water at speed the pipes will have to be way below the cavitation plate at prop shaft level. If the top half of the props are truly out of the the water then not much water will be going to the shower unless the pickup is really long. Any thoughts? Talked to them and am going to send them a pix of the problem. They said the only other one they knew of was from Ricks Innovative Marine that would fit a Blackhawk, but nothing comes up on an internet search for them.

Tom Davis
04-12-2002, 07:30 AM
This is a reply to Bill, about the Black Hawk drive cooling. The only way to pick up water for drive cooling on a Black Hawk is to attach a water pickup to the transom and use flex/braided SS hose to the top of the drive. You can get a few different tops to attach the hose for the bravo drive, but I'm not sure about the Black Hawk, you might have to have to custom make one. One suggestion for water pick up is the racing pitot tube (flip-up type), this has a large opening and if unrestricted will provide sufficient flow for cooling, because it will be facing forward at all times regardless of trim. It will also produce slightly less drag for that .016% more speed.
Just my $.02

Tom Davis - see you at AOTH2

Stix Magill
04-12-2002, 08:36 AM
Mark Horne,

I would love to see a closeup photo of your Alpha. I have an Alpha and would like to be able to invision the installation process. The Simrel website doesn't show a good picture of the unit installed on an Alpha outdrive! frown

Digger
04-12-2002, 09:01 AM
Simrek Halo installed on the 33

http://www.donzi.net/photos/mhowarddrive.jpg

I don't like drilling holes anywhere on my boat but this was simple enough, for each shower: two 1/2" holes in the cavitation plate, one bolt mounts up top, that's it-

Ranman
04-12-2002, 09:36 AM
For good technical information, go to www.driveshowers.com (http://www.driveshowers.com) (Simrek) and click on "Product Reviews" All kinds of good info here and also some results from testing.

Stix Magill
04-12-2002, 10:52 AM
Poodle,

I'm in for a Summit for Alpha. If you are going to handle the order, it seems only fair that we prepay you and tack on shipping costs from you and at least $5.00 each toward your shower. Is that fair enough?

Steven Cohn
04-12-2002, 11:06 AM
More stuf to buy. I've been following this thread and now offer my chump change opinion. I owned a Formula w/twin Ford V-8s and 18' Borum Cougar w/a GM V-8. Niether boat had showers and niether boat ever experienced upper bearing or gear failure/problems in the out drives. Sure, if one were to touch the upper outdrive housings they would be hot, but they were quenched/cooled each time the vessel came off plane. The outdrives never reached temps. even close to what the engines produced. Surely, the outdrive housings expanded and contracted each time they were submerged. However, the seals were intact and water never entered the outdrives. I stored the outdrives in my basement during the winter, for service and protection. The showers seem like a good idea (and they're cheap), but they seem like another gimmicky thing to add to your boat and spend your money on. The true question is "What is the optimal operating temperature of the gears, bearings, and oil?".

Stix Magill
04-12-2002, 11:25 AM
Steven,

You have a good point. Can someone answer this question for us? Maybe someone from Mercruiser or an offshore racing tech. My bet would be that 275 F would not be the "ideal" and that is what Simrek is showing some of the drives measuring.

I want one either way! Like Tomahawk said, looks trick! :D

turbo2256
04-12-2002, 12:21 PM
I have drive showers on both my boats. Put them on as soon as possible before the case expands and distorts from heat is best. Type 4 synthic gear lube helps too.

turbo2256
04-12-2002, 12:32 PM
The drive showers are more helpful to boaters running log periods at high speeds say 1/2 to 3/4 throttle or better were the top half of the drive is out of the water for long periods. Even a fishing boat could use them there not need trolling around but some of these guys hall but for hours to get to a favorite spot.

Forrest
04-12-2002, 03:21 PM
'poodle I would be interested in one for my Alpha SS if they have it.

Do you think these are any good? CLICK (http://www.innovativemarine.net/)

Does a TRS even get warm behind a 18 Donzi?

--------
Forrest

Ready for my shower!

Stix Magill
04-12-2002, 04:26 PM
That makes three :) :) :) .... half way there!

Poodle, Stix, Forrest (if Alpha SS is avail.)

EricG
04-12-2002, 05:37 PM
I'm In for a discounted Alpha Shower.....could I get one with the "therapeutic massage" nozzle? :D

-EG

Stix Magill
04-12-2002, 07:03 PM
That's four! :) :) :) :)

Dr. Dan
04-12-2002, 07:16 PM
Anyone ever put one on a King Cobra Drive? :rolleyes: Just curious, I emailed the drive shower dudes and they got right back to me, they were not aware of any manufacturer! :( Any suggested alternatives? I would think something would be fairly easy to adapt! ...Doc

Bryan Tuvell 33ZX
04-12-2002, 07:23 PM
I had one on the Gen II alpha, it ran HOT! I cannot prove if it helped or hindered, I did not get the spotting, but it surely can't hurt.
Very easy install.
As far as the new Bravo with the Lathem steering that I have, I sent them a picture of my set up and here was their reply.

We have developed a Modified Summit for the new Latham Steering. It is 1-1/2 inches longer than the standard Summit and has 11 dump ports instead of the normal 7. The cost is $10.00 more for the custom Summit ($129.95). With the configuration of that mounting plate for that steering system encapsulating the top of the drive that is only air cooled to begin with, you are wise to be looking to install a drive shower.
Paul Kermis
Pres. Simrek Corp.

Mine just isn't in the scan as of yet, maybe after the two May vacations, if UPS rings my doorbell again I could be in trouble with Nancy.
I will get mine soon.
Bryan

RickR
04-12-2002, 07:36 PM
The late model Bravos (post 1989?) circulate the gear oil like the late model King Cobra(post 1989). The Bravos also have a reservoir so pressure does not build in the gearcase.

My Bravo drive gets hot and the gearcase gets chalky but when I change the Merc Hi-Performance lube after 200hrs it looks like the day I put it in. No discoloration no burnt small.

BTW; They say (who ever "They" are) that a speedo pick-up tube causes a 1mph speed loss at WOT. :rolleyes:

Bryan Tuvell 33ZX
04-12-2002, 09:01 PM
RickR, tell us what you really think! :)
I change the drive lube about every 40 to 50 hours, no spotting on the Bravo like I had on the Alpha.
Who needs a water pick up speedo if it slows you down eek! ? GPS speedos these days!
Take care.
Bryan

Stix Magill
04-13-2002, 11:40 AM
Bryan,

Evidently, the Alpha runs notoriously hot. According to http://www.driveshowers.com (the Simrek site) only the Bravo III runs hotter.

The problems are exacerbated on extended cruises, say 3500 rpms or higher of 30 minutes or longer. If you run for hours without a shower, you can cook a steak on that puppy! eek!

CDMA
04-13-2002, 01:08 PM
One thing about an outdrive is that a lot of them are roller or needle bearings ( including the top cap). Roller or needle bearings are less dependant on high tempteratures to expand the bearings to get the desired clearances. While they still do have standard heat expansion properties they are less dependant on it for proper function. This being said it is more critical to make sure they stay cool enough then reach a high enough operating temperature.

I need one but I just need to stop spending...

Chris

Can't...must not....but but....oh man

farmer tx
04-14-2002, 12:53 AM
Stix, Sometime I have a hard time hitting hotmail. If you didnot recieve it here it is. http://www.donzi.net/photos/MHorne01.jpg

Bryan Tuvell 33ZX
04-15-2002, 04:51 PM
Poodle, you have mail!
My Donzi gal has been reading my email and ordered our drive shower custom rig after receiving the above email from Paul, I found out today! :)

Our club just did a group buy and they came as promised.
Bryan

Forrest
04-16-2002, 03:45 PM
In there on the Alpha SS Scott!

--------
Forrest

WebNot forbids me from looking a my new shower at work!!!

Stix Magill
04-16-2002, 08:32 PM
I'll take a summit for the Alpha. I want to extend the life of my drive (it's already 16 yrs. old).

Hey you guys without a drive shower, this is your chance to customize your boat in a very functional and cost effective manner. Save your outdrive!

Ranman
04-18-2002, 10:11 AM
This message is for Stix. Here's a close up of my drive shower and the holes in the cavitation plate. This is the "Summit" model which is typically sold for Alphas, but it's installed on my Bravo (I used to have an Alpha on my first Donzi).

Beware, this is a large pic.

http://www.donzi.net/hull/DNAC8015J697/water5.jpg

Murphy
04-18-2002, 10:49 AM
I installed a shower on my SS. Used a standard Alpha model and cut off the fittings, shortened the pickup tubes, ground off the tack welds then refastened the fittings. Worked out just fine. See good photo of this on the Registry page under Wescott, Rob 1986 22 - DMR22139L586 - Illinois, Central

Murph

Bryan Tuvell 33ZX
04-18-2002, 08:59 PM
My modified unit for Laytham steering came tonight, you have too love two day UPS!
I will install Saturday a.m.
Second one for me, I hope it goes as smoothly as the last.
Then the hull/transom mounted water pick ups....
Then the new trailer.... I will be wore out by AOTH II... NOT! :)
Bryan

farmer tx
04-19-2002, 01:31 AM
2nd try on this upload thing. Lets see what happens. Drive shower on Alaph1 www.donzi.net/photos/acf465.jpg

farmer tx
04-19-2002, 12:51 PM
One more try. Maybe the third time is a charm. http://www.donzi.net/photos/mhorne002.jpg

farmer tx
04-19-2002, 01:12 PM
Sorry for the HUGE photo.I need to down size in the future.

Last Tango
04-19-2002, 09:56 PM
STIX,
If you are still keeping "score", I have had a drive shower on my Bravo 1 for 18 months (70 hours, 2001 B1). No outdrive paint chalking. Everything looks and runs brand new. Outdrive is warm to touch but not hot, even after long runs. I have a Simrek "Halo"... I have excellent photos up close of the boat running at full speed (70+), well out of the water, and the drive shower still shooting max spray on the upper outdrive. Reason: Even though the intake holes are mounted on the cavitation plate, they are on the trailing edge of that plate, which means the prop is "feeding" it even at high speed. Prop has plenty of water coming off the top even when it is "running high." Cooler is better...period. You might also use synthetic fluid. BOTH of these ideas will save you a ton of cash down the road...cheap insurance. Neither will save the outdrive if you get airborn regularly and air the prop completely and then throw it back in the water at high revs. The drive shower and lube will improve the life of the outdrive under normal use. They won't save your outdrive from total abuse.
Some "racers" out there don't use a drive shower. That is because they are not running stock outdrive units of ANY make or vintage. They may even be running drysump SIX units. Racers have modified their drives with heavier internal pieces, special fluids, and generally only run for less than an hour at any time. They also inspect and rebuild frequently. So, if you are not a "racer", then the drive shower makes smart sense.
Mark :cool:

Bryan Tuvell 33ZX
04-21-2002, 03:34 PM
I installed mine, according to Paul at www.diveshowers.com (http://www.diveshowers.com) (owner) it was made on the specs from Laythem (someone is wrong),
well they were slightly off, I needed a 2" fine thread SSteal bolt vice the one they sent, I just ask for my $2.10 back since I had to
go buy one. Yep, I am a tight a$$. :D

The modified Summit is 11 dump wholes etc, it works fine and does not get in the way of the hydraulic steering.

FRANK C, if you get one they need to send you a 1.5" double female not a 1".
Or a longer bolt.
I will add the full stainles steel Laythem plate
which covers the entire top of the drive
does get quiet warm without a shower! eek!
Bryan

Stix Magill
04-21-2002, 08:06 PM
All this information is a godsend. Thanks to all of you who have posted pictures and commented on your showers. The virtues and ease of instalation are too much to ignore. I will have one by June!!!

Rootsy
04-21-2002, 08:53 PM
If anyone doubts how hot an alpha can get... yesterday Sam and I made a good mile plus run at WOT... i dropped back to idle and crawled back and put my hand on top of my drive... underwater... 50 degree water... i couldn't put my hand on it and leave it there for more than a few seconds before it began to get really uncomfortable... Sam on the other hand has a drive shower and he had no issues with his being hot to the touch....

Philip47
04-21-2002, 09:38 PM
My outdrive is a Bravo III upper with a Bravo shop Bravo I lower, nose cone and a Bravo shop drive shower, I have a outdrive oil temp gauge and at crusing speed it runs @ 150 degrees and running at 4,500 rpm @ 62 for extended periods it runs 170 degrees, I think it is definetly doing its job
Run it at 5,100 @ 69 for a few miles and it hits 180 :)