Z this and that?

[DFLOWER]

What is all this Z stuff on everything? Those Donzi lines of the classic series boats are what I wish that I could have plastered all over my wardrobe. What was wrong with the old logo's, crest, porpise & lion etc.? When I visited the boat show in Boston last February I could not wait to see a new 16 with 2+3 seating. Well not a one just ZZZZZZZZ up the wazoo with prices all in the six figure range, hard to relate. Channel marine was sold last winter on lake Winni and I say it will be a good change with much more exposure for Donzi. When Channel sets up at the boat show with their Eliminator, Baja and now Donzi that will be one of the best venues at the show for performance boats.
On the ohter hand does anyone from Mass. Plan on making it to Lake George?

[Looped]

DFLOWER,
The Providence Boat Show 1/11/01 - 1/14/01 will have Dick's Marine Service showing Donzis. I will call them tomorrow to see if they will have any Classics. No Lake George this year, just a load of glass work.

Craig

[boldts]

FormulaJr,
How bout you say it's like a Cigarette? That way, you at least keep it in the family. And even the new to boating folks have heard about a Cigarette if they are the least bit into performance boating. Nothing wrong with Fountain, I think Reggie is OK, but I don't think that the people owning a Fountain have the fun with their boats that us Donzi lovers do. When was the last time you saw a Fountain get together at a lake that consisted of more than a boat or two?

Just my early morning $.02 worth.

Scott Boldt

[Looped]

Sorry, Dick's Marine Service will not be showing any Donzis at the Providence Boat Show. They have even sent the couple that they had in their showroom back to Donzi. What is with all of these Dealers?

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http://albums.photopoint.com/j/Thumbnail?u=1399308&a=10571596&p=35971807&Width=100&Height=100&Sequence=0

Craig

[harbormaster]

Probably because they cannot sell them.
Sure. Us guys are hard core but how many people would pay 35,000 for an 18 foot boat?

The Dealer down here in my neck of the woods took a bath on an 18 because he could not sell it. I personally blieve if they put a big push behind them they probably could move them but there are alot of other boats that are easier to sell and have a higher profit margin.
just my uninformed opinion.

Scot

[Murphy]

Agree with all that's been said. I bought a Donzi because when I was a kid in the 60's, if someone said the name DONZI it made the hair stand up on the back of your neck. It was the boat... I mean THE BOAT on our lake! It's kinda nice when the Z-owners check out my 86 Classic 22 and say "now that, right there, is THE MOST classic boat on the lake" You gotta love that. I passed a decked-out Z superboat towing another boat last summer. When the ladies on that Z saw the Classic it was like somebody lit a firecracker. One jumped up on deck, screamed DOOOOONNNNNZZZZIIII and danced for us until we were out of sight. New, old, or in between, a thouroughbred always stands out in a crowd.

[Chops]

Here, here!!!

[boldts]

Scot,
I think you have it in a nutshell. I was looking through a copy of Boat Trader tonight. I saw a 2000 22ZX for 44,000. That's $2,000 per foot of boat! Grant it, the boat gets wider the further you go towards the transom, but you could buy at least 2 ta 3 used 22 Classics for that. When your spending 1/3 of a house for a boat that in the north, you get to use 4 maybe 5 months of the year, it's no wonder the dealers can't sell them.

Just my $.02 worth

[BigGrizzly]

Ok guys, Lets get to the fact. Donzi is quality. In 1966 my first 16 Ski Sporster Donzi cost us $5100 the Century resorter cost $4600 new. Today the 16 is worth $10,000, but is not for sale the resorter is a pile of dry rotty . This summer my son looked all over for a 1999 22ZX and found one for 32,000. This was the best deal in the country and it was used. in 1981 my Criterion was $30,204 New. In 1981 my house in Pa. cost $40,900. Im 1989 my California house (1500 sq foot) cost 210,000 at time I sold it. Lets put it in perspective Boats are a luxury not necessity, unless it is a Donzi to one of us. Prices are high, not just for boats but cars and motorcycles alike. You get what you pay for! Look around and price other boats, yes Donzi is higher than a Searay, but not that much new. However used the Donzi is much higher--GET THE POINT. Hey Chris sell me that old 70's Donzi 18 of yours to me for $3,000 ok $3,500! After all its just an old boat that you can use only 3 months a year. Bolts how about yours it should go cheeper, you said it needs paint.

Most of dealership failures are missmanagement. If your area can't support that type of trade than don't sell it. However all of us want a Donzi dealer next door. Guess what, you can't have it! I have seen boat dealers go from great to late. They try to carry to many lines and have too much inventory, and inadiquit sales people. Have any of us been to a dealer where the sales guy knew as much as we do? NO!!!

You think Donzi is expensive. At the boat show last week I saw a 21 foot bass boat go for $24,000 without a motor! In two years it may be worth $12,000 if he is lucky.
You have to pay to play. You want to play the role then you have to pay the toll!

If no one buys a Corvette there will be no more Corvettes. Price a new one wow, you coulds buy a house for that price in 1985. It only carries two people, has no storage and it doesn't even float (for long). Yet people still buy them, why?

Its wake up time boys and girls. This is the real world and school is out!!

Randy
P.S:
You guys though GeneD wrote long ones.
P.P.S
Murphy has the idea, it also happens to me.

[This message has been edited by BigGrizzly (edited 01-12-2001).]

[boldts]

BigGrizz,
I don't want to sell my 18' because I have learned what a great and dependable boat I really have. Yes, it's 32 years old, but it's like fine wine. It gets better with age. The first time I took her to Lake Erie, there were 8 to 10' swells because a storm front had just blown through. I didn't drive 3 hours not to run her on the lake. We ventured out into what everyone else thought was a crazy thing to do. (It was) We were coming off the top of a swell, landing at the bottom of the next one and gassing the throttle up the backside of the swell in front of us. After a couple of these, we turned around at the bottom and headed back to safer waters behind the break wall that runs along Cleveland. When we got to Shooters for lunch, we looked at each other and said "Man that was coool, but lets not attempt that again today."

My point here is. In any other boat, in the 18' range, we probably would have been toast and maybe even had placed the boat on the bottom of Lake Erie. My Donzi got me back from a place I probably should not have been and even though she is in a ruff looking state right now, you couldn't offer me enough for the boat. My comments about price are like everything else in the country today. I bought my Donzi when I could afford to live that life style, now today, things have changed a little bit. I would love to have a larger Donzi, preferably a Classic with lots of HP, but I look at my 18' and I say no loan to pay, she's not the fastest boat on the lake, but the comments at the launch ramp make up for all of that.

Enjoy what you are able to have as far as luxuries and have fun. That's what I do each and every summer.

Scott Boldt

[BigGrizzly]

Scott you've got it, that is why Donzi is worth a little mor than other boats. I didn't use the word compitition, because as you know there isn't any!

Randy

[Frank Civitano]

The one thing I have to say No matter what Donzi I owned. I get more looks stares and Questions Then any Baja Scarab Fountain Checkmate and any other sportboat that comes to party Island in Barnegat. My 16 or My 22ZX. They have the name! And being the price is higher then any 22 boat in its class. I am one of the 3 only 22ZXs in my area. And we are all different. Almost looks Custom! I will always own a Donzi.. I Love the boat.. Classic or ZX. I wish they would make a 28 Classic That Would Be Awesome! could you picture the long sleek nose on a 28 classic with a 500hp factory 1... Hey Mike, Nick, build one I would by one in a Heartbeat. As far as the old clothes there was a problem years ago when Donzi sold off the clothing line. They coudn't use the old logo or something like that!

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Frank Civitano

[Bryan Tuvell]

Wow! What a topic, I just have to chime in! The '99 22ZX I own is the love of my life (minus momma and the kids). But let me say this, shortly after the ZX was purchased I visited the factory, and through those big glass doors was an AWESOME blue and white Classic (hard not to look at the girls answering the phones, but I managed), anyway, wow!!!, what a nice looking boat! If I had not got my ZX for the small price I paid I would have owned a Classic just based on looks, and then not even knowing the history of their years of fame, history and known performance.
I do agree with the entry level boat statements, not everyone is made of money, and to be honest, most family boaters can enjoy a very nice boat for less than Donzi asks for their fishing boats and bow riders, in fact this months family boating (boat review issue) had many boats with MANY more bells and whistles with prices ranging from 17 to 35K.
It all boils down to what you want and what you can afford. I mean would Donzi survive a 5 year bow to stern warranty on a 17K boat, I think not. Piece of mind is INVALUABLE when your boat is sick!
I have had a few problems with my ZX, and Donzi has rang true to the call on warranty work, no hesitation, very personalized service etc, all from 1500 miles away, they return every call and call me with info, hell most Corvette dealers don't do that! I know. So, that is what I expected when I bought a Donzi, my friend who has a ZX swears by the company, he said they had a few bad years in the mid 90's reputation wise, but assured me they were on a come-back, his word of mouth enabled me to own a great boat!
Again, great topic... Hey Frank, I wish you was going to KY. I am going up to lake george the week of 28 July, maybe we could hook up.....
Bryan

[Bryan Tuvell]

Also, I forgot to add, I am going up to the Richmond boat show tomorrow (Saturday), will there be any Donzi's there? My bud is looking at the Sunsations. Bryan

[BigGrizzly]

Just some more info. In the early and mid 90s Donzi did a entry level boat. One was the Ragazza (from 17 to 25 feet) and then the Medallion series. The general opinion in the public's and some tester's eyes was, "Its not a real Donzi". One guy I know once said 'Its got the name but not the fame".
In 1994 the 212 Medallion with a V8 cost 18,965. I looked at one, not a bad boat, but no Classic or ZX by any means. Both lines fell on their face, for the fore mentioned reasons. Donzi is NOT a entry level boat. If it was it could suffer the same reputation that Bayliner does. Donzi has tried that avenue before and it cost them dearly.

Randy

[Murphy]

Awsome! By God, you put a bone in a Donzi lovers mouth and you better stand back son. I tell you this though... Frank C. is on to something. If Donzi put together a kick butt, top of the line, 28 Classic with real power, DONZI could definitely regain that "make the hair stand up on the back of your neck" reputation. This whole thing has made me rethink the price/value equation. Truth is, as long as DONZI charges what they do, we all look like Millionaires on the lake. Be cool.

Murph

[Tom on Lanier]

I agree, a bigger Classic styled boat would be something to behold. Especially if you could stagger a pair of BBC's in there. BTW Frank, local dealer here has a 2000 model carryover 28 in stock with a pair of 350 Mag's. He told me they're looking to get in the high $80's for it.

------------------
Tom
"Tomahawk"

[Frank Civitano]

I am looking at one for 72000 and one at 68000. I may favor the one for 72 its a pretty boat! white yellow and blue flag graffics like in Geos picture of NY. But not a bow rider.

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Frank Civitano

[BigGrizzly]

The boat show price on that boat that Parks has was 83,500. it was beautifull and said to run 72 mph it was loaded. Marc wants it, who knows what that kid will do next. Well Frank its your show from accrost the room it looks almost like a clasic. Oh yea the lower units were the low water pickups.


Randy

[Len]

Frank, have you looked into this one? http://www.internetboats.com/boatfiles/15229.html

[roadtrip]

Wow,
Great topic! I go away for a few days and you boys get fired up. Sorry if the attached appears a bit fragmented, but I think I may have left a little of my mind at Sloppy Joes this past weekend.
Hey, don't bite the hand that feeds you at Donzi. As a former three time fountain owner, I never sensed the support or warmth from the factory that you guys take for granted out of Donzi. Just the opposite as a matter of fact. And as Scott Boldt said, there is no real organized community for fountain or any other performance boat owners for that matter. Offshoreonly.com is the only thing close and those folks attack each other like pirahnas on a regular basis. Enjoy and thank Scott V and the Donzi factory gang often for what we have.
The product. The Z and ZF boats are pretty cool. It is Donzi's challenge to produce and brand product that has the mystique of the Classic line. Sometimes, they hit the mark with a kick butt fish boat like the ZF and sometimes they don't like, in my opinion, the bigger Z series boats. I consider them too wide, tall, and heavy for serious go fast consideration. It looks like they are correcting that with the new race/poker run series. If they produce and start winning with a true, race-bred stallion next year, I just might be a prospect for another twin engine fire breather. Also, as much as I like the girl bikini ads, show the darn products in the ads too. Donzi doesn't have enough brand recognition to get away with theme ads. In the mean time, it is our job to keep telling them what the classic mystique is, so they can capitailize on it. Kind of like Cigarette has in the past couple of years. By the way, I love the 28 Classic idea.
The dealers. Like it or not, they may be over-dealered or have the wrong kind of dealers. A Donzi sale is not a Baja sale. Sales people have to be trained and compensated to sell any high line, high quality brand. High line can be sold in volume, look at Mercedes/BMW, but it takes proper support infrastructure and big territories for dealers who will stock and promote the product. The dealer has also got to reach out to the local boating community and genuinely be involved in it and very few are. Look at the Corvette clubs. I know a chevrolet dealer that sells ten additioanl vettes a month just because he supports the local clubs.
Any way, I love my new/old 2001 Classic, my experience with Donzi, and the admiration and community that these boats create. Now I will go burn my soapbox.
Todd Somerville

[This message has been edited by roadtrip (edited 01-15-2001).]

[Dr. Dan]

I gotta agree with roadtrip,Frank & Big G,these boats have one thing that all of the others wish they had,"Panache"(look it up),like the original Vettes and a few other vehicles that have romanced the hearts & souls of so many of us,we are fortunate to have the luxury of living & playing in "our dreams",it's a great country and Donzi is an icon in its own right. ...Doc

[Bad Dog]

Guys:

I have had the pleasure in the past few years of meeting with the Donzi guys down in Fla. They don't say it, but the simple fact is, the money is to be made on the big boats.

I would guess that, with the Dealer markup, they probably don't make more than $1-2000 on the sale of any 18 Classic.

It's a shame, but I think it is market driven. I think Donzi could get some serious sales in the Classic models, but it would take retooling their marketing to hit the smaller boat market, something I don't think they will do given the dollars they make on the small boats.

Of course, as all of us have said, a well done Donzi web site would go a long way.

Two other points:

1. My grandfather had a Regazza. Might as well own a Bayliner (no offense meant). From a performance and appearance standpoint, there was no difference. It is not a whole lot of fun to drive and its pretty ugly. (By the way, that Regazza is for sale if anyone wants one after that ringing endorsement).

2. My dad just bought a new 18' Classic (delivery in late Spring). Of course he's had a 1967 and a 1978, both 18' Classics, in his lifetime, so he knows how it feels to drive one.

I fear for the Classic's long-term survivability as a line if new, younger boat owners aren't exposed to what it means, both through marketing and trade shows.

My two cents.

Bret

------------------
Bret Pedigo
bret@emji.net

[RickR]

Coming from a business owners point of view,

How would you like to sell a product that has not changed in 30 something years? Especially when these crazy fanantics are taking the old models and restoring them instead of buying a new one.
Bryant (Donzi's engineer) said he got death threats everytime he changed something on a Classic http://www.donzi.net/ubb/eek.gif )


There is a very small market niche for a Classic, they are heavy, slow (without adding Xtra HP) and have very little passenger room. And, you have to DRIVE them. But they're built TOUGH and can handle rough water (for their size) better than any other boat I've been in. Besides they look purdy.

I feel American Holdings are doing a great job. They have designed a very nice Z Series which is more marketable than a Classic. Plus their quality is getting better every year. With the better quality the can command a premium price.

I like having a limited production Classic. If they sold Classics like Bayliners,and there were a zillion out there we wouldn't have a ,great, small group of fanatics that have become friends on the Registry! http://www.donzi.net/ubb/biggrin.gif

Thanks Scot!!!!!

------------------
RICKR
mailto:riggerb@aol.comriggerb@aol.com</A>



[This message has been edited by RickR (edited 01-16-2001).]

[BigGrizzly]

Well said Rick!! One more small point. when they are building a 18 or 22 Clasic they can't build a 28 ZX. Remember there is only so much space in a factory. When i'm cutting down a crankshaft on the lathe or making a stainless tooth pick on it for my wife, I can only do one at a time.

Randy

[Blewbyu]

Bret,et al:
I believe you're onto something there.Consider though,those of us with the Classics will become marine versions of Bugatti and Hispano-Suiza owners!How will your trailer look at the next Pebble Beach Donzi Concours?
Heathens-eat thy hearts out!
For WE are the Donzi
OWNERS
OF THE WORLD!!!!!!!

[Blewbyu]

************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** WHEW!!!!********************** ************************************************** ************************************************** *********************************dang near blew a vein in my forehead!