Barrel-Back or not?

[gjohns6896]

I am still looking for an 18 Classic in Illinois, but have not come up with anything yet. However, I did find something close to what I want that is all the way out in New Jersey. But, this particular craft threw another problem into the mix...it is a Barrel-Back. I now know what that means, but is it better or worse than a regular straight-transem design? Anyhow, what should I look for and what are the advantages and faults of BOTH designs. I am not running on very rough water <man-made lake with one-foot swells occasionally>, but need to know about this before I commit!
Many thanks!
George

[Scott Pearson]

George,
Is it Eddies boat you are looking at in Pt. Pleasent?

I own a 1968 "Barrel Back". Barrel backs are sharp keel boats. They ride a little different then a Non-Barrel back. I have been told several times from people that own a Non Barrel Back that it rides better. I have driven both and I feel it does ride better. The only thing it will do is catch the water harder. Being a "Sharp Keel boat it grabs on turns and landings there is no slide to the hull like rounded keel bottoms. http://www.donzi.net/photos/P1010005.jpg

There is also more room under the hatch for exhaust, steering, spark arrester, etc. etc.

Barrel Backs speak for them selves.

(NJ)Scott

[CDMA]

I second Scott. I have a 1968 barrelback and while I don't have enough seat time in a non barrelback to compare the ride ( Geoo's doesn't count) I think they are far superior for cosmetic reasons alone. The little difference changes the entire boat in my mind.

Chris

[CDMA]

http://www.donzi.net/photos/callardrollsrear.jpg

http://www.donzi.net/photos/callardrolls2.jpg

[CDMA]

For comparison here is an equally nice but non barrelback 18.

http://www.donzi.net/photos/port.jpg

http://www.donzi.net/photos/stern2.jpg

[gjohns6896]

Thank you all! YES...it is Eddie's.

What I gather from this is that the Barrel-back <with sharp keel> rides better, holds more in the engine compartment, is firmer in the water <hence, rougher?>, and grabs the water with more force. How about speed? Does the sharp keel affect speed in any way? I know that is almost an impossible question, since no two boats are alike...especially ones so old. But I figured I would try.

So, the end result: buy it and see if the Barrel-back is all it's cracked up to be? Or pass on it, since it is so old and not the "typical" boat?

George

[Formula Jr]

I wish you guys would stop the Barrel Back
title of the early 18's. There are no, barrel back fiberglas boats............... There are tumblehomes and arched transoms, but there has never been and can not be a barrel back fiberglas boat. This term is specific to a particular form of Wooden boat construction. To call a fiberglas boat a barrel back is an insult to the craftmanship that went into making an actual barrel back. Barrel Backs are works of art.

[Scott Pearson]

Owen,
I see your point on the early 18's but, I dont agree with you that any fiberglass boats not ever being a "Barrel Back" type of structure. In fact ,there was a old wood boat show awhile back that asked for a 14 Baby to attend. This was to just show the transition from wood to glass and to see how the "Barrel Back" design was brought over. My 14 Baby is just that, its a Barrel Back. I own both.

People have been calling the 18 sharp keel boats Barrel Backs for years. I guess thats just the way to decribe the two different hull designs. I have never heard a 14 being called a "Barrel Back" ever. Just saying 14 baby speaks for itself. And there was only one hull design with that model.

(NJ)Scott

[CDMA]

Owen I see your point but if I referred to me "arched transom" 18 would anyone have a clue what in the the world I was talking about....no.

Chris

Hey man Pearson there was more then 1 14 :)

[harbormaster]

Owen I sense a lot of pent up anger directed at the early Donzi Owners.

Why don't you give up on that Formula Donzi Knockoff and buy a Donzi? :p

[gjohns6896]

WOAH!! I think I struck a NERVE here.

So, "barrel-bakcs" are good? Apparently they are so damn rare as to want one. Is that the point here?

I love starting fights....

George

[Ranman]

The "barrel-backs" are rare and sought after boats to the hard core Donziers. To me they are like a 66 Mustang Fastback. The reason I like the fastback so much is because they're rare in comparison to the 66 coupe. The barrel-backs are exclusive to the original Donzi's and are generally hard to come by.

To me, there are several "types" of Donzi owners. There are folks like CDMA, Scott Pearson, Big Grizzley, The Weavers and others who own the original Donzi's from the 60's, before they were called "classics". These folks search out the originals, perform beautiful restorations and preserve history.

Then there are owners like me. I wanted the "Updated Classic". My boat being a 97 still has the same lines as the originals, but is outfitted with all the modern day rigging, including fuel injection, and modern controls.

It's amazing when you think about it, how timeless these boats really are. Think if Ford were to have continued making the 66 Mustang all the way up to 2003, leaving the body and chassis the same, but just updating the driveline, interior etc... Which one would you want. Maybe an original, because of its "originality" and rareness, or maybe you'd pick a new one with all the new hardware built around that classic style. The auto companies are doing this somewhat by bringing back some of these original cars like the Thunderbird. There's a certain value and appreciation that can be found in each depending on how you look at it. I would someday like to have both, one original in bristol condition and a brand new one to match. Good luch in your search for a Donzi. Randy

[Formula Jr]

SOUPBOX/ON
I'm not trying to be pissy. Its just that the term Barrel Back is a well defined type of Construction term, like lapstrake - having nothing to do with form or how a boat looks. The longetudital planks and interior ribbing are such that the planks of the aft deck beautifuly blend in to the topsides right on down to the chine. Even if there was a glass boat that followed this form, it would be called a tumblehome stern since it isn't following the ancient art of coopering. Its like calling naugahide real leather and using it to define a donzi delutes its meaning. Even in a broad sense "Barrel Back" doesn't apply to the early 18s. They're not even tumblehome sterns. Though the 14 was. They just have an arched transom. Any real barrel back owner would laugh at ya if you used it to describe a Donzi. Just trying to protect the language here alittle.
SOUPBOX/OFF

Yah, Scot. One day I'll get around to buying a real donzi.....

Why do I have this odd feeling I'm forgetting something????????? <a href="http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell539.jpg" target="_blank"> :D </a>

[CDMA]

Randy,

Very well said. I love the classic Donzi's and while not for everyone to me there is nothing more satisfying then restoring a boat myself. If you look at us ( Myself, Pearson, Weavers, Griz) even though we love the classics we too want some of the modern connivances that we have come to expect in the new donzi's. It is very rare to find a Donzi restoration where the person said the hell with advances I just want it how it was. I mean think about it. Of all the old barrelback's and similar running around by now it seems the majority have been converted to some form of more modern driveline ( My boat, Pearson, Gene D). I mean how many 289 Ford/Volvos 18's are on the board? To me what I want out of my classic is something that looks vintage yet has some of the characteristics of the newer boats. But that is just me. There are others out there who want it how it was, or say the hell with originality. To each his own and no one way is better then another. I try to walk somewhere in the middle yet look at every other person's way of doing things with an open mind. However the barrelbacks will always hold that special place in my heart.

The other nice thing about Donzi's the Donzi group is that you basically can do anything to the boats and people don't get "mad" at you. I mean think if someone took an original Corvette and painted it orange and white. The corvette guys would kill him. But even the die hard Donzi guys can step far enough back and realize that it is just a boat and let others express themselves in any way they choose.

Chris

[ThrillSeeker]

I WANT A DONZI BAD. IS THAT YALLOW ONE FOR SALE? WHERE IS THAT BARREL BACK FOR SALE AT, AND HOW MUCH IS IT?

[Ranman]

Chris,

I agree with what you've said, I just didn't know how to include it in my post without convoluting the whole thing. I guess my sort-of point is that there are those who want the originals to restore, update, etc., and those who just want the whole package to start with. What I've stated is black and white and just meant to be a general statement. Obviously the Donzi community is not black and white as there are many many flavors that the folks like and aspire to.

Another analogy would be to take two guys that like to work on cars. One might buy a 67 Camaro SS, restore it, built a carburated rat motor and end up with a sweet ride. His buddy might prefer to buy an 02 Camaro SS, trick out the fuel injection and add a supercharger. The end result is somewhat the same, two guys with cool cars that are fast. The difference lies in the intrinsic and historical value of the cars. The 02 does not have the historical value of the 69. On the flip side of that. Overall, the 69 does not have the technology and comforts of the 02.

I hold the folks who take the time to seek out, drag home, and restore these historical jewels in high regard. I personally am not talented enough to be able to do that myself and can appreciate those who do. Again, I agree with you and I think everyone knows what I mean.

Owen, as much as I respect what you are saying, and as accurate as it may be, I don't think you will get anyone to use any other terminology to describe those particularly rounded Donzis. I find interest with regard to the original barrel-back boats and your knowledge of them. The term, as it relates to Donzi's, is simply an adjective to describe that particular style of boat. It's not that they are true barrel-backs, it's that we have no other way to easily distinguish this breed from the others. When you use the term barrel-back for a Donzi, we all know what boat is being described, that's just what they look like. Randy

[gjohns6896]

GOOD WORDS!

And nobody better try to buy that boat before I get the chance to! This means YOU, THRILLSEEKER!

I SAW IT FIRST!

Regardless of the freaking adjective used to describe its lines, and hull, and transem, etc., I like it! I didn't at first, but as many times as I hear they are rare and few recognize what they really stand for, the more I want the thing.

I am buying it. TOUGH, THRILLSEEKER!

Don't cock-block me.

Sorry, I am getting possessive now.

George :D

[harbormaster]

first one with money wins the boat!!!

[RH]

Chris, Owen and the rest, you all have good points, now here is mine. I own a 1936 16' Chris Craft Red White and Blue single cockpit racer with the "barrelback" or "barrelstern" design. I guess you can call it what you like, but I have always thought of the older classic 18's with the "rounded Tumblehome" as the barrelback style. Call it what you like, but they are all reall cool. Personally, I prefer the barrelback style better, but that is personal! I agree with Chris that having the older style of Donzi and then upgrading it with modern power, drives etc, it enhances the boat and it's performance immensly. I am planning on doing that with my 72' Hornet someday when my ship comes in, but for my Chris Craft, it will keep the original Hercules 75HP H engine and the original gauges and the original finish colors etc. For some reason, it just would'nt be right doing it to that boat. I can't explain it, it is just how I feel.
Any comments or or darts to throw, I am a good target! Good comentarty from all of you by the way!
RH

[Formula Jr]

A new classic is an infinitely better made boat than an old classic. But there you lose the little stuff. Things that are hard to describe that no one does anymore cause the bean counters found a way to save something on the build. The lack of plastic - for a better term. The old Morse controls: chromed with wood handles and a Donzi emblem on top. What a delight they are to touch and use. Sure, a Merc 4000 is more functional. Trim is right there by your thumb. But oh, it lacks that delight of touch and use. Those little Pizel horns really bug me on a new Donzi. They just scream "Corp Boat." Some of us really want that "Delight to touch" stuff, so we restore and update boats instead of buying new. For instance the horn button on my GT 21 is a chrome button. Just the aestectics of it being chrome makes the boat "worth more" than a new boat. Its kinda hard to describe.........we all have this vision of Grandma's phone. It was probably a bullet proof series 500 from the phone company with a finger plate dial and had a cosmoline bathed network and platinum contacts for the hook switch and a brass governer for the number taps. What you can buy now, may be far more fuctional, but it can't touch the earlier intent of lasting design. And if ya needed to know what time is was you just dialed 555-1212 at no charge. Somewhere in the late '70s boats started losing this "delight to touch" aspect. And now we have touch panel displays. Along the way, the simple joy of piloting a boat got lost in the tech. The last new boat I was in felt completely alien to me. Oky, its functional, but am I enjoying the use of all these features. There was an american Zen that is now gone. Just give me a boat with simple features and all aspects of it are well designed and over built. Fewer links to the chain and all the linkes still left are stronger. That is a Classic, even if its a displacement hull or a sailboat. Do I really need an alarm system to tell me oil pressure is dropping, that the temp is too high, that I've a rev limit, or that my bilge is filling up? Though I do tend to leave the ignition on. Maybe an alarm there would be good.....
:D

[gjohns6896]

Like I said, I SAW it first, so I should get first chance at it. But, to my dismay, someone CALLED the guy last night. WELL...if I would have had his bloody phone number I would have called him, too! I can't help it if he does not check his e-mail, or if he does not leave his phone number anywhere easily accessible. I DO have money. I guess he won't be getting mine.

I will just sit here and continue riding my 62mph Sea-Doo GSX Ltd. Oh, and by the way, it only has a 951 CUBIC CENTIMETER TWO STROKE ENGINE...130 hp.

WOOPPEEEE!!!!!!

G :p

[MOP]

I know my measurements are not exact but should be real close. The actual heith from the keel to the top appears about the same, just the new classics have the rise just ahead of the transom. Has anyone measured one to see how much difference there really is??

[RH]

Well put Owen! I agree with the aspects of quality. I enjoy the small things that others may not think about as well. Call me old fashioned, but I tend to enjoy the classics. That is why I get such a kick out of the Hornet having left had drive. Every time we land on the beach, someone comes up and remarks about that. The solid construction, basic function and cool form. No way to beat it. My thoughts and dreams for my Hornet include keeping it left hand drive, maybe update the outdrive to a Mercruiser Bravo, but then again, as long as the Volvo hangs together, and with a kid coming up on college, I'll just have to ponder on that dream....

[gjohns6896]

Well, men, I found a nice 22 footer and am going after her! Non-barrelback. I thought it over and decided that it would not be worth it in terms of performance to feel unstable in turns. I would rather NOT flip over and glide ON the water than cheat physics and be IN the water. But nice design nonetheless.

Cheers,
George