Broke the alpha drive again. Help!

[Komarek96]

Hi everyone my boat is a 87 22’ Classic with a 454 and the Alpha from hell.
It is used in Green Lake, WI

Well in summer 2000 somehow one of the internals in the drive broke apart and sent metal gear parts every where and basically trashed the drive.

The marina replaced / fixed according to my invoice:

7/22/00

Gear set
U-joint assy
Lower seal kit
Cross & bearing
Upper gear housing seal kit
Mercury high performance gear lube
Outdrive gasket set
Coupler kit
R+R Drive
R+R Engine

Total 2,030,96

Yesterday it happed exactly like it did before. While driving about 30mph it felt like it went into neutral. I could not get forward or reverse and the water-cooling also stopped. This is the exact same thing it did in 2000 before the drive was rebuilt.

I really hope I don’t need to rebuild the whole thing again. L What should I do I can’t rebuild this drive every year ½. Are there stronger internal parts I should use?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Wes K

[Ranman]

Don't know about the power output of your 454. but Alphas are really only reliable to approx 300hp. There are people who run higher hp numbers with Alphas, but most are very ginger with the throttle and I think most are running them in lighter 18's instead of 22's.

My personal opinion is that an Alpha does not belong behind a 22 Classic with a 454. You may be able to upgrade your internals or go with an Alpha SS which I think is stronger (these are rare and expensive though). If the drive is trashed again, and you intend on keeping the boat for any length of time, I would seriously consider moving up to a Bravo One. It will cost more to get set up than fixing your Alpha, but I believe it is somewhat of a straight forward swap. With a Bravo, your troubles will be all but gone. Just trying to offer some suggestions. Randy.

[Forrest]

Merc should have never mated the Alpha to a big block, but tha aside, having it break at a 30 MPH cruise may indicate that it was not clearenced or assembled properly during the last overhaul. Only a disassmebly and inspection for tell for sure.

In 1970 or '71 when Merc first coupled the Alpha (or #1 drive as it was designated at that time) to a V-8 engine (302 Ford), everyone questioned if that was a good idea or not, since up until then, the #1 drive was only used on 4- and 6-cylinder in-line engines. For the most part, and after a few modifications, the little drive held up fairly well behind the 302 Ford. Later Merc started gettind brave and put the Alpha drive behind larger an larger motors until they put it behind the 454. When that happened, Merc realized that the Alpha drive had met it match and discontinued offering the 454/Alpha combination. Again, as Randy stated above, the easy long-term solution is to consider upgrading to a Bravo drive.

[turbo2256]

Making the Alpha live install a drive shower, use Redline Shock Proof Heavy gear lube in it, Some use smaller props and run it to higher RPM s, use of 1.32 gears, never hammer it out of the hole or slow down to fast this slams the gears and thrust washers.

[Tommy McDermott]

i think that is a little to much for an alpha. get a new drive.

[AVickers]

I've got the same rig -- and fears that mine will end up like yours. Although I've not managed to break mine yet. (I attribute this to the fact that I use a cleaver and it doesn't "bite" as hard as a round-eared prop...)

My guess is that you lost a tooth then all the teeth from a pinion in the upper housing... Or you broke the downshaft that runs into the lower unit and water pump. The upper gearcase is the VERY weak part of this drive.

IF you decide to rebuild the Alpha again, be sure they use the parts designated HD for the upper unit. As I understand it, an HD 1.32:1 was the original setup for the BigBlock rigs. The SS also uses the HD-designated upper. I'm not sure, but it may have also been available in an HD 1.5:1 ratio. That would mean the 1.5 parts would have been available as normal or HD. (If they rebuilt your rig as a 1.5, you may have gotten "normal" gears/shafts instead of HD parts.)

If it's any consolation, the lower units appear to hold up fairly well...given that the whole rig is a gigantic POS. (My take is that it's an outboard foot on steroids and it should never have been marketed w/ high powered V8s. Unfortunately for us consumers (of the Big Block 86 and 87 Classic & Minx), it was the only design that was available at the time -- other than a TRS...)

[Rootsy]

searching way back into my memory of yesteryear....

if she didn't make any extremely nasty grinding, clunking, chewing noises then i put my money on the dinky shaft running from the upper gearcase to the lower... they usually break right at the lower pinion where the needle bearings are but in your case it has to be above that since the waterpump quit turning... if the upper gears go then as the input shaft turns the input gear grinds against the other and you get really nasty noises... so possibly where the shaft splines engage the upper gearset bevel/helical gear is where she broke. this is a heckuva lot easier to replace than gearsets.. since you don't need to shim anything... unless pieces went through it... which is difficult to do in this case... but you do get new seal kits with the repair!... yay :rolleyes:

sorry to hear about another bb/alpha breaking... guess that 330 is just a tad too much... especially in heavier boats... thank god they quit doing that combo...

[FlatRacer, aka BarrelBack]

Just saw a used Bravo for sale on eBay. Search under Donzi.

[Formula Jr]

I agree with Mr. Root. It didn't lose a tooth and blow up on ya. A rather easy fix considering the the alternatives. You sheared off a shaft or frenched something in the drive train. '87 is a hard year to buy into, cause of the what Forrest has already said. I see these boats for sale every where, and they are cheap. There is a reason they are cheap. I disagree with the drive shower solution. Showers are good for keeping heat down on long WOT runs where you are still not exceeding the rating of the drive. Exceed the rating of the drive, and no amount of cooling or lub. will help. You are just going to twist a shaft anyway. Like putting the drive shaft of a Pinto into a full sized truck. It aint gonna work for long, no matter how you lub. it or cool it.

[FlatRacer, aka BarrelBack]

eBay Bravo's gone. Here, try this:
http://free.hotboat.net/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000261.html

Eric :)

[Tommy McDermott]

on the lake where we do all of our boating, theres a 28' fountain. he has over 900hp and stripped 3 bravo 1's his first year with the boat.

[Ranman]

Tommy, not sure what your point is here, but the Bravo One is not rated anywhere near 900HP. It's my understanding that the B1 is good for 500-550HP and no more than 5000rpm. Randy

[Boatless]

Maybe you should consider the Arneson Drive like what's on George Desmond's boat.

Reliable and fast..

Best of both worlds...

[ThrillSeeker]

YEAH IF YOU CAN AFORD AN ARNISON GO FOR IT. BUT IF YOU CANT. YOU MISE WELL UPGRADE TO A BRAVO THE OLD ALPHA JUST ISNT MADE TO HOLD UP TO THE 454. UPGRADING WILL SAVE YOU MONEY IN THE LONG RUN.

[Komarek96]

Thanks for all the good advice. Good God!! The Arneson is $15,500 I just spoke with the marina today, it was the upper gear set. Does anyone know the best place to get a rebuilt Bravo drive? Do I just need the drive or are there any other parts involved?

Thanks again!
Wes K

[GeneD]

I just don't understand why the drive broke the second time. It should have held up for longer than it did.
Sure, the Alpha isn't the strongest drive in the world of Mercruiser, but man...you just don't blow a drive at 30 MPH because you have a big block pushing it.
Me? I would shove that drive down the throat of the marina and make them fix it for free. Also, why did they charge you to R&R the engine? The motor doesn't have to come out to repair the drive.
Going to a Bravo is going to solve your gear munching, that is certain. You'll have to buy a new gimbal too. Of course, now that you have this new gimbal, the motor has to come out. Not as easy as it first appears.
What kind of prop are you running?
Have you all noticed the popularity of the Mirage 25's? I thought I was the only one using it on an 18.
Anyway, that drive should have lasted longer than it did. Someone put that thing together wrong.
Oh, and someone made a comment on the Alpha being an outboard lower leg? Yeah Baby! That is what woke up my SS. The Lake put in a set of racing outboard gears in my lower leg. He said the SS's were designed from the racing outboard. So a new set of 1.68 in the lower, 1.5's up top, and a 25 Mirage in the water is what did it for me.
Of course, it all sits on a trailer right now. The only time it gets wet is when it rains!
Give me time...
The 406 is straining to get out of the corral.

[AVickers]

Fix the Alpha. And be sure they use 1.32:1 HD parts...like the original. This way your engine will run about 4400 w/ a 21 to 23 pitch cleaver prop. And take it easy on the poor POS. Buy a second Alpha to have a spare and learn to swap out the drives yourself. A swap on this setup can be done without special tools in about an hour -- once you get the hang of it. (You could also buy just an upper as a spare, but a swap would take more skill and time...)

Drive the boat until you're tired of it and sell it to some other unsuspecting Joe. Or, hopefully, you can sell it cheap to some deserving soul like CDMA -- who has the time and energy to do a major swap.

A full up Bravo Conversion is relatively expensive: drive, gimbal, cables, raw water pump, labor, etc. I didn't look too hard and got an estimate w/ all the parts used for something around $7,500 for good, freshwater parts. (Most of the cheap used stuff is salt and the units themselves might need to be rebuilt.)

I could do the labor myself and save some off the price, but it's a pain.

If I go to all the trouble of a swap, I'm planning to wait until I need a complete repower and then install a BB Volvo Duoprop.

Otherwise, I'm going to sell my old boat and buy a new one w/ FI/Bravo or Duoprop unit...

[CDMA]

Thanks Avickers :)

I only differ on one thing. I just did a Bravo swap and while I did do all the work myself it really was not too expensive. And I have to say since I have bought the parts I have seen comparable deals so I don't think I stole anything.

For me I traded in a running ( so this assumes what you have works) alpha one and alpha gimble + 1000 for a model year 2000 Bravo one, completeley rebuilt, with a 1 year warranty.

Then it cost me $1200 for a complete excellent shape Transom housing. Freshwater. It came with all the inner pieces that I still had form my Alpha so I had some duplicates to sell.

When it was all done. The total swap cost me $1975 and I feel I didn't buy junk. You have to scout around and do your own labor but it can be done.

Just my $.02.

It was worth EVERY PENNY + SOME

Chris

[AVickers]

Ok, I'll bite...

Who did you a deal w/ trade for 2 grand? If I could land that, I probably would... (You wanna be my agent?)

Around here, there are lots of Alphas in all ratios and in all kinds of shape... But very few Bravos -- and those that there are are from the coast.

[CDMA]

I dealt with Moss Marine. A small shop up here that has always done my drives. Thet rebuilt my alpha after I sent the gear through the case and when I was looking for a Bravo I went there. They offered me everything I had plus a grand for a 2000 model year rebuilt bravo one with warranty. So that is how I got the drive.

The transom housing was harder. I bought it siter unseen from California but I was confident it was in good shape and took a chance. The housing arrived at my house and I could have sworn it was about 6 months old. ( it is a 1994 housing).

While it takes some lookinng I have seen some Bravo's on OSO for about $1500. The cost of a Bravo has really come down since the introduction of a the XR and XZ. A lot more used units are floating around out there. The harder part is still the transom housing. It took me a month to find mine.

So that is about it. I will be at Moss next week and I will inquire what they have. Keep in mind that around here everything is salt. But in reality it doesn't seem to be a problem. If you buy a 1989 Bravo that has sat in the water all year for 15 years of course you are asking for a headache but I had no issues buying a 2000 Bravo even if it had been used in salt water. Regarding the drives my personal feeling is that the real difference is not Salt or freshwater but whether it was a trailered boat or it sat in the water all year.

Chris
Anything I can do to help let me know