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View Full Version : 68MPH for $4900 (why won't it sell?)



Ranman
08-12-2002, 09:42 AM
The hardware is great, the hull needs TLC, but it's fast for cheap. Wonder why no bites anywhere?

Cheap Jet Boat (http://www.donzi.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000056)

HyperDonzi
08-12-2002, 11:52 AM
it seems like there is much more than 5k into the engine, if i had 5k i would have emailed about it. surprising how it isnt selling.

Brose
08-12-2002, 01:25 PM
Where I live it takes more time to sell a jet boat that an I/O or outboard for a couple reasons.

First, I think there is a perception that jet boats appeal only to the "high performace crowd". And due to the amount of custom parts usually seen on these boats it could require an inordinate amount of maintenance and upkeep. Most people don't realize how simple a jet drive set-up really is -- just an engine spinning an impeller on a shaft.

Secondly, depending on where you boat, it is possible to clog the intake grate under the boat with weeds, debris, etc. which sometimes calls for a trip over the side and a swim under the hull for a hand-cleaning -- no fun early/late season (brrr).

It's a double-edged sword here. These factors typically allow the owner to buy a fast runner on the cheap. Then when it comes time to sell they realize why they got such a good deal.

Good luck.

HyperDonzi
08-12-2002, 01:39 PM
around here, there is a nice channel going a few miles long and has an island in it, me and a few buddies who are a little older (78 and 59) are planning on borrowing a jetski to go back there cos it is 8-12 at the deepest. i will ask them if they would like a jet boat for doing that on wednesday.

Rootsy
08-12-2002, 01:47 PM
anyone wants a low slung jetboat with a BB something or other in it there are 3 of em for sale within 25 miles of me that i know of or have seen. one is a tunnelhull style... others are shallow V's and they are all more than 4900 bucks i believe...

FlatRacer, aka BarrelBack
08-12-2002, 03:19 PM
Brose,

You hit the nail on the head when you pointed out the dichotemy of jet boats. Those not familiar with them think of them as a "hot rod" kind of boat and are put off by that image and all that they beleive goes with it, ie; loud noise, dangerous speeds, hassles with the lake police, tickets, etc.
On the opposite end of the spectrum, those in the know when it comes to high performance boats, know all too well the problems with jets: inefficient drive system (aka SLOW :rolleyes: ), steering loss in panic-cut-throttle situations eek! , wandering at idle, etc.
However, outside the performance spectrum, and laughing their asses off, are those who don't care that v-drives and stern drives (lb. for lb. and hp for hp) walk all over jets. 68 mph is just fine for them, thank you very much. And they don't care that jets make more noise and roostertails than speed, they like the noise and the roostertails. They're more into the performance image that the actual performance of their boats. Unfortunately for the sellers, these happy go lucky guys are somewhat rare. Most of us fall into one of the first two categories. So, essentially, for squirtguns, uh, excuse me, jet drive boats, it's a buyer's market.

Eric :)

HyperDonzi
08-12-2002, 03:41 PM
flat racer : They're more into the performance image that the actual performance of their boats.

sounds just like all those rice burning civics you see. thousands of dollars into race seats, gauges, wings, body kits, 7" exhausts, but under the hood, watch out! 127 strong jap power! LOL

FlatRacer, aka BarrelBack
08-12-2002, 09:05 PM
Right On Baja. I know what you mean about those sake suckers. Those guys put more money into those rice rockets that I have in my Pantera, but I don't even have to drop down a gear to turn them into a blur in my mirror! LOL, :D Just gotta press on the loud pedal a bit.
I can't wait til the car's sorted out so I can bring it to the "Import Drags" :) Technically it is an imported car. :D :D :D
Nothing succeeds like excess! wink

blackhawk
08-12-2002, 09:36 PM
I agree to a certain extent. They are for a certain type of boater. But I've seen a few 65 mph jetboats that go from 0-65mph in about 3 seconds. That's gotta be fun!

BigGrizzly
08-12-2002, 10:02 PM
Flatracer,
Don't under estimate the Cvics or others They fly, I assume your pantera has the origional 351 Clevland in it. I am very familiar with that engine causemy MachI and my Corsican both have them and I have the Only CMI sport tube hedders ever made. Great motor and you have a great car(one of my all time favorites), just rember some will actually handle road course faster and better than yours will. I've seen the track times at Road Atlanta, and Robling Road ( AKA Savana International Raceway) -two high speed sothern courses. Check out the national drages some of thoes cars are in the 11 second bracket. Don't bet your title on it, now back to BOATS which is more important.

Randy

gjohns6896
08-12-2002, 11:07 PM
At the Gateway race track <St. Louis> this past week, an import tuner deal called "Race Wars" was happening. One of the last races was two spectators with their own cars; One late-model Mustang GT and one new Acua TL Type S <I own this same car>. As the tree went green, the Acura BLEW AWAY the 'stang and beat him down the track by one whole second. Not bad for a "little, rice-burning" 3.2 liter V6 pumping out 260 STOCK horsepower!
The Acura was stock for this "race."
EAT MY DUST, PANTERA!

P.S. My Uncle's '70 Cougar had that 351C in it...nothing to get all worked up about.

BACK TO DONZIS!!!

George

Ranman
08-13-2002, 07:42 AM
Those "Import Tuners" wouldn't last ten minutes on the street scene in Detroit. When I street raced, if someone brought one of those cars out, the crowd would laugh and torment him until he left. We don't care about stickers, ground effects and neon lights. In the Motor City, less show & more go is the motto. There's nothing better than taking your "stocker" (yeah right) and blowing the doors off some goon whose car is full of racing stickers. If you're going to put on the stickers like that, you'd better be able to back it up or someone's going to make you look like a dick. The game here is all about the art of sandbagging.

11 second quarters for those cars is impressive. The problem is how much does that cost and how reliable is it? I'd bet I could get 9 sec quarters out of a real car for the same money.

Anyway, it's just my opinion and the culture here is different. Randy

"Gimme two cars and the leave with my flagman."

Voodoocanoe
08-13-2002, 08:50 AM
"Art of sandbagging" :D :D Ain't that the truth.
We once had to literally beg a guy in a Viper to run the old Riviera, needless to say he was extremely embarassed and pissed when he lost.

blackhawk
08-13-2002, 09:03 AM
I'll take the sound of a V-8 rumbling any day. But I have to admit some of these new rice burners are pretty impressive.

blackhawk
08-13-2002, 09:17 AM
Unfortunately i can't directly relate to street racing. However, we used to bring our "stock appearing" XC600 snowmobile to a few run what you brung grass drags and never pop the hood in front of people. We'd wait for the "fast guys" with 100 stickers on their sled to wheel their up there (they'd wheel them so they wouldn't load up) I'd drive our little 600 up there that really wasn't that loud until you cracked the throttle. They's just kinda look at us like "what are you thinking?". Light would turn green and we'd blast everyone of those "fast sleds" by at least 4 sleds (sometimes 10, literally)

Man, that was fun. 200hp on a 465 pound sled. :D

HyperDonzi
08-13-2002, 09:19 AM
some with the 11's are impressive, being in high school, i have a few friends with rice burners. one is in thailand building a JSPEC 92 celica and another one is selling a 98 civic (with intake, exhaust) so he can get a turbo charger that would put his integra up to 350hp! he sadly dosent believe me that the whole drivetrain has to be re done.

HyperDonzi
08-13-2002, 09:22 AM
Man, that was fun. 200hp on a 465 pound sled.

Seems like the power to weight ratio on a street bike!

blackhawk
08-13-2002, 09:33 AM
Yep, a sweet power to weight ratio and no shifting! We used to asphalt race that same sled back when I had a street bike and that sled would kill my GSXR750! Smoke me out of the hole bad and just keep pulling away.

Ranman
08-13-2002, 12:18 PM
When I used to street race, I started with a Mustang that was mostly stock with the exception of a healthy dose of nitrous. The little 5.0L ran high 12's through the factory cats and mufflers. When rolling through the local hot rod parking lot, the car was whisper quiet. Needless to say it worked well, but after a month or so my cover was blown and on we went with other mods.

I actually sold the Mustang for my first Donzi. It's just as much fun and I haven't had a drag racing ticket since.

I also run a Doug Flannery built XC800 that would hand the Mustang its own ass.

"In 1999, 60 Drag Racing tickets were written to Michigan Drivers. I just happened to get 3 of them."
http://www.donzi.net/photos/ROakMustang1.jpg

http://www.donzi.net/photos/ROakMustang2.jpg

Rootsy
08-13-2002, 02:09 PM
and @ 6 points a piece you lost your license for how long???? :( or did you have a good lawyer :D somehow the cyclone and i managed to avoid any of those... SOMEHOW...

HyperDonzi
08-13-2002, 02:12 PM
those were the nice mustangs. i like that body style a ton more than the new ones. we had a 1996 green mustang 3.8l (go ahed laugh) but less than a year after we got the boat, it was traded in for a GMC savanah passenger van.

Ranman, i like that, 3 of the tickets were yours LOL

and jamie, cant they get you for more than 6 pts each one? speeding, wreckless driving......

FlatRacer, aka BarrelBack
08-13-2002, 02:27 PM
Don't get me wrong. There are exceptions to every rule, even the rule about there being no substitute for cubic inches. There's one substitute,...cubic dollars. There are serious properly engineered Japanese Import "tuners" out there that will blow my relatively stock Pantera into the weeds. But look at what they've got to do to acheive that; nitrous, turbos, blowers, computer programable fuel injection, knock sensors, etc. I respect the hell out of someone who can buy all that equipment, stuff it into such a small car, do the R&D neccessary to really make it work, and get it past emissions to put it on the street legally. And I suppose there's a particular satisfaction that comes from meeting the challenge of making a small engine competitive with a big one. But it seems to me like going from NY to Chicago by way of Miami. There's so much easier ways to go fast. I know they've spent a helluva lot more $ that I did on my Carb, cam, intake manifold, and headers.
And that goes for boats as well as cars. I've been blown away by jet boats drag racing in my flatbottom, but they had 500ci blown alcohol motors whereas I had a lot less $ invested in my single carb 427.
It's all good though. Variety is what makes the world a more interesting place to live in. Everybody has a different idea about what's cool. And I thank God I live in a country where every kid doesn't have to play with the same brand of toy! :D

Ranman
08-13-2002, 02:51 PM
Ticket #1 - Reduced to Careless Driving 3 pts.

Ticket #2 - Also reduced to Careless Driving 3 pts.

NOTE: Both tickets reduced because court days were so close the first ticket had not been posted by the time I went to court on the second one.

Ticket #3 - I did get a lawyer on this one and had one of the luckiest days of my life. My lawyer went in and negotiated with the Prosecutor and managed to get the ticket put under "advisement". While negotiating, the Prosecutor never looked down at my driving record that was sitting in front of him. After the deal was made and my lawyer was walking back over to me, (I was waiting outside) the Prosecutor flew out of his office and summoned my attorney. Turns out that after the deal he looked at my driving record and realized the mistake he had just made. Anyway, a deal's a deal and the advisement stuck.

Consequently, I sold the Mustang, bought my Donzi and leased an F150. Best decision I ever made. Can't tell you how many boats I've raced. The local law enforcement seems much easier on us boaters when it comes to racing. I successfully made it through the advisemant period so the ticket was totally dropped. I haven't received a single ticket since.

blackhawk
08-13-2002, 03:02 PM
Ranman,

Is your 8 an 01 or 02? Doug was really making the 01's run with his porting and a dynoport single pipe. I'm not a big fan of single pipes but they responded well with his porting. I also had a chance to clutch 3 of his lake ported XCR8's and all I can say is WOW! One of the first ones he did was 181 hp at 8100 rpm.

We used to have some fun when our sled was set up for asphalt. There were some 8 second 1/8 mile cars that thought they were bad until they lined up against a sled. Ours ran 6.5's in the 1/8 if I remember right. There were a couple there that ran 5.9's. eek! That's moving!!!

Ranman
08-13-2002, 03:34 PM
Blackhawk,

It's an 01 XC8 that Doug ported. It's got PSI twins, PSI Dial-A-Domes, Avenger III's and all the other stuff. EPI red pri 66gr weights and the stock roller sec. Made 161hp on Dougs dyno. It's a quick little trail sled, but I still get my ass handed to me more often than I'd like. I'd like someone else to really dial it in.

blackhawk
08-13-2002, 05:54 PM
Ranman,

Are you running the stock helix in that roller? If you are, you are giving up a ton of mid-range. Also, are the wights Polaris weights? Their 66 gram weights really don't pull any harder than their 64's because of the profile.

Doug is an awesome engine guy but he's just too busy to get stuff dialed in 100%.

Drop me an e-mail if you want to get it dialed in.

donziblackhawk@hotmail.com

Brose
08-15-2002, 12:10 PM
I feel compelled to defend jet drives a little. And in the interest of providing information, there are some benefits to jet boats that are worth mentioning.

Hole shot is quite impressive, full torque immediately.
No prop in the back -- a little safer for the kids.
It's the only drive with "brakes" (similar to reversing the jets in an airplane).
Rudders are available for low speed tracking and no-thrust steering.
Can run in extremely shallow water -- good for unfamiliar water.
Much lower maintenance than I/O's.
There ARE ultra-high performance jets that run at 170mph eek! .

Considering that I have a jet mated to a big block in my X-18 (from the factory no less) and the points above, IMO the versatility of the boat is unmatched wink .

Ranman
08-15-2002, 12:22 PM
Brose, Although I mostly agree with you, I have to disagree with the shallow water point. In fact I'd say a stern drive can safely operate in shallow water better than a jet. The jet drive shallow water thing is a misconception. Jet drives produce an enormous amount of suction through the intake grate. Jets at full throttle have the ability to lift objects on the seafloor from as much as six feet down. When running a jet in shallow water you have to be extremely careful not to suck up rocks, dirt, debris, etc. as this stuff can do big time damage. This is especially important if you are running water injected headers, like Bassetts, as you can clog the capillary lines in a snap. Also, when you're running a jet near the seafloor, you could potentially be filling your engine block with dirt and restricting the water flow. I've learned these things first hand. Sea strainers can help with this problem if it exists.

HyperDonzi
08-15-2002, 12:31 PM
6 feet off the bottom! wow, i though you would be able to run these full throttle in a foot or less, what about jet sprint boats? there is no way that they are in over 6 feet of water.

blackhawk
08-15-2002, 12:45 PM
Okay, back to the boat topic. My friend had a little jetboat(not high performance) and we would cruise along the shore in about 8-12" of water at 30 mph and never had a problem. I am sure a hi-perf engine creates more suction.

But, the bottom line of this post is you can go 68mph for $4900!!! That's $72 per mph. Not bad at all.

HyperDonzi
08-15-2002, 12:49 PM
it is a bad deal if you dont have the money.

Brose
08-19-2002, 12:44 PM
Ranman, point taken.

It is essential to be aware of water depth when running slowly or doing any idling/engine revving. Full throttle in neutral DOES induce massive suction under the boat. If you like to go slow or rev in neutral you better be deep or have a thick wallet.

But for high speed cruising you can run confidently in very shallow water. At speed the intake grate 'skims' water from the immediate surface only.

Case in point; Ever see a river racer? Those boats have to run in water sometimes only inches deep that would ground an outdrive -- they're all jets.

There is no misconception regarding the benefits (and some drawbacks) of jets. A little common sense goes a long way when running ANY boat in shallow water.

FlatRacer, aka BarrelBack
08-19-2002, 02:50 PM
Brose, your points about jets are well taken. However, I figured out as a teenager, by reading countless powerboat test reports, that given identical hulls and identical engines, jet drives were the least efficient drive systems when it came to turning hp into mph.
Direct drive or v-drive hulls were the fastest prop driven boats and stock non-racing :) stern drives fell somewhere in between.
I don't know where surface drives would've fallen into that scale, because they weren't around back then, but I would guess they would've ended up on top due to their minimal underwater hardware. (also, as evidenced by GEOO's X18's phenomenal performance)
Still, they're cool boats, especially for the price.

Eric :)

Ranman
08-19-2002, 03:08 PM
Brose, It sounds like you know your stuff. :cool: Although jets are the least efficient, they're a gas to drive and the fact that you have an originally jet driven Donzi is even cooler. Enjoy your boat and stay safe. :D :D Randy

FlatRacer, aka BarrelBack
08-19-2002, 03:11 PM
Ditto. What he said. Stay Kool!!! :D

HyperDonzi
08-19-2002, 03:32 PM
it would be fun flying through narrow channels at 40mph....

Forrest
08-19-2002, 04:28 PM
There is a old retired dentist in Lake Park, GA, who builds heavy-duty welded-aluminum boats for fishing the flats in the Gulf of Mexico. These boats are 25' to 35'long and are powered by a four-banger marinized Toyota engines turing a jet pump. He and his partners do the whole thing in his backyard (and you should see this guy's "home shop") including building the marine exhaust system and other marinizing parts for the Toyota engines. The old doc tells me that a water jet is the only thing that can easily get one of these big boats into the shallows and back with a load of fishermen on the deck. Obviously, he is not in to the speed or accelleration aspect of water jet propulsion and he went on to say that he hasen't trash many pump units either. He did add that the tolerance ring around the impeller that he uses is set wide to allow sand to pass without too much damage.

Brose
08-20-2002, 09:03 AM
...now if I could only find someone up here with a digital camera so I could post some pics of the 150ft rooster tail !