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blue-z
08-07-2002, 10:17 PM
Hey gang... looking for info.

Found a 1968 Donzi for sale. It is a 17 feet long plus a little. It has front starboard wrap around seating and single drivers bucket with port controls. It has a barrel back and aluminum hatch cover. It has a 4 cyl. (140 hp) mercruiser (serial #A616861.) It has a 3 blade stainless 23 pitch prop (a little ragged). The main concern is a soft deck especially on the port side. It is on a nice bunk/roller combo trailer.

1) How big of an issue is the deck? ie can it be quick fixed or must it be fully separated?

2) What is the price range of these repairs?

3) What is the model of this boat and style type?

4) Would this be an original engine set up? Serial # A616861

5) What were the available powertrain options availabe in 68?

6) How hard is it to change it over to an original V-8 application?

7) What options were available? (specifically thru-hull exhaust).

8) What colour options/combos were available?

9)What is the estimated value of this unit as is and restored? This boat shows well for its age and is in good running order.

10) Any other concerns we should know about in order to check condition and originality?

11) Any other comparable boats out there with respect to availability and price for sale?

Thanks for your time, knowledge and concern..Blue-Z

harbormaster
08-07-2002, 10:23 PM
Including Some photos of this mystery boat with your questions would insure accurate answers. Without photos most every answer is just an educated guess.

Formula Jr
08-08-2002, 01:02 AM
Are you sure this is a Real Donzi??? Sounds like a standard issue Formula Jr. circa '68. 17 feet with change, wrap around seating, Port Console, merc stuff...... ???? What is an aluminium hatch cover?

Big differences in the numbers..... and everything else........

harbormaster
08-08-2002, 07:54 AM
Like I said, without pictures you get guesses from all the crackpots... :p

Craig
08-08-2002, 08:00 AM
Does sound a little like a Formula, Jr. While they may not technically be a "barrellback" they do have that look at the stern, and 17' is about right I think.

yachtjim
08-08-2002, 10:56 AM
Chris Craft now makes a barrelback fiberglass boat.

Rootsy
08-08-2002, 11:12 AM
does it look anything like this?

http://www.tdi.net/jaroot/pictures/dsc00040.jpg

blue-z
08-08-2002, 11:54 AM
It looks just like that. Same style outside. Cannot comment on the interior and other items. Let me know what it is and if my questions could be answered based on that being the style of boat.
I also know of a possible line on a stripped hull that is outrageously rough. It was in Wallaceburg, Ontario, Canada. Will be there Saturday to follow up on it.

Formula Jr
08-08-2002, 12:22 PM
Good one Jamie!!!!

Blue-z. The yellow boat above isn't a Donzi. Its a Formula Jr that has had Donzi logos added to it.

The title may even say its a Donzi (which look like this (http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell504.jpg)), but if its 17 feet, three inches and has a wrap-around seating arrangement, its a Jr. (which look like this (http://www.epud.net/~owen/fjmerc.jpg))

The two boats share a very convoluted history. On the Jr, the lower strakes meet at the bow - not so on the 16 or 18 Donzis.

If you want a real donzi, then this isn't your boat. However, I personally prefer the Jr over the 16.

The Jr has more mid-ship beam, and foredeck, making it a tad more stable. It is also much lighter than a 16 even though its longer. This is because it isn't as well built as a Donzi. Or should we say, it was made lighter and is therefore more vulnerable to structural damage if you run them hard.

By today's standards, all original Jrs were underpowered. They came with Volvo four bangers, Merc (GM) fours, Inline fours, 289 fords, and Merc inline 6's. Biggest engine you can fit in them is a 351 ford which was never an original option. You could put something else in but you would need to add space in the engine hatch for the flame arrestor. These originally came with tiny gas tanks, cause they ran small engines. The engine mounts are lag bolted into the stringers, as opposed to through the stringer bolting as used in Donzis. The last seen, highest price paid on resale of a showroom condition updated Jr was $9500 with a 351 and a left hand Alpha Drive. I considered this a fair price. They will run in the low 60's with this setup. And you will need trim tabs for anything over 55 as that is where they start to chine walk. These air-out alot more than 16's due to the lighter weight and are jumpers. The hook in the Jr hull is pronounced and runs right down to almost the keel: The 16 has less of a hook. There's been some discussion here as to the merits of either style of hook. But that's a complex discussion for a later date. Jrs run at 5 to 7 degrees.
For an off deck restore, you will have to drill out all the aluminum rivits and the deck will just come off after you cut all the ring nails used to tie the sole into the stringers. There was no tabbing of the deck to hull on the Jrs. You will want to tab the deck afterwards if you do do a restore. they came in White, Light Blue, Red and Orange. Original Bilt-Rite Interiors were white or blue but the patterns were discarded in the mid 80's. Most had a single through hull exhaust tip. If you do not have the original vents, you will never ever, ever find them as original replacements. The Jr metal scripts were chrome over zinc and rotted away very quickly in salt. They went to plastic in 68. Production run was from 1966 to 1971. No idea on the numbers.
Of the two I have, the serials are F17 56130 and F17 56-001C Capacity 1200 lbs.

Earily style hatches open up from the rear seat, up and back. Later styles opened from Starboard to Port and had two fore and aft latches that looked like something cast in a forced labor camp. The stern light was the retractable type mounted about three inches in from the Starboard Transom. The Gas fill was on the Starboard edge of the foredeck. Vent was in the Port topsides. Original Jrs have little splash guards running along the rear topsides. This was to protect the topsides from docking damage. They look goofy and most people removed them.

Original rub rails were aluminum with the rubber - vinyl inserts, which also look goofy. However, bending a strainless rail to fit the arched transom and the deck to hull joint is a bear. Most boats I've seen have too much hardware on them, which distracts for the purity of the lines. Stuff like extra vents, foot pads, wind screens, horns, etc. The boat really stands out once all that "Stuff" is removed. The wrap around seating is a deterent to running hard with Passengers. There's no place to land right and the ergonomics just don't work well. The intersection of the rear bench and the Starboard bench is also weak in all the boats I've seen. So much so that passengers should not step in here unless there is added reinforcement. Half of the pilot seat base bolts are on the other side of the port stringer so you will want to back plate and bolt these prior to remounting the deck and sole.

blue-z
08-08-2002, 01:36 PM
I will inform my friend and he will be thankfull for sure. Thanks for the information. You guys are once again very helpful. Always a pleasure!

blue-z
08-08-2002, 03:58 PM
My buddy visited axiously and indicated this is the boat. Does anyone know anything about that specific boat? He indicated he still is interested regardless of it not being a Donzi (sorry guys)!!

Other than the stickers, if anyone has info, let me know!

Rootsy
08-08-2002, 06:09 PM
THAT photo i posted IS the boat you looked at specifically????????? it was sitting downriver detroit off of gibralter road a month or two ago and that is where i saw it... i have a crapload of photos if you'd lik ethem.. just email me and i'll send them to you.

that boat needs some SERIOUS deck work, notice the LARGE ripple in the deck. the gimble ring is worn out on the transom assy and the sterndrive is in poor condition... someone has laminated the hatch and it weights 234234234234324 lbs. has a 140 merc (4 cylinder)in it. they wanted way too much money in my opinion, something like 7500 i think... and were trying to pass it off as a donzi, i reckon cause they didn't know any better.

it'd definitely be a time consuming and expensive restoration... and grossly underpowered the way it sits...

THE trailer DID have ontario license plates on it though. my father told me not long after we looked at it that it was no longer sitting there...

http://www.tdi.net/jaroot/pictures/dsc00036.jpg

Formula Jr
08-08-2002, 06:31 PM
They would be lucky indeed if they got $3500.....the Merc 140 is too small for this boat if you ever want to see it sing and dance, and if he is running a 23, the drive must have a very high ratio...... In other words the power pac is useless.

And after all is said and done, it STILL isn't a Donzi... wink

yachtjim
08-08-2002, 09:25 PM
You also might want to flip over those running lights, it looks like they are on the wrong side.

Formula Jr
08-08-2002, 10:07 PM
Noticed that and the interior water, badly done screws, figured Jamie was just flipping the photo and playing with us, saying something in code. Red is always on Port.... Just like the wine.....

BERTRAM BOY
08-09-2002, 06:49 AM
Did you guys also notice the dip in the deck?
BERTRAM BOY :D :D :D

Rootsy
08-09-2002, 08:11 AM
oh heck that ain't no dip,that's a hill! :( how you would ever get it really flat again is beyond me this morning... maybe if i get some more coffee it'll come to me wink

blue-z
08-09-2002, 01:19 PM
Thanks again..no need for me to go for a ride with him. Looks rough indeed. The boat is in Lasalle, Ontario. If anyone is interested.

blue-z
08-09-2002, 01:20 PM
Thanks again..no need for me to go for a ride with him. Looks rough indeed. The boat is in Lasalle, Ontario. If anyone is interested.