California 22 ZX...

[Tony]

Here's a west coast boat that looks pretty sweet: 1997 22ZX (http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=526619115)

[GEOO]

Frank,
He must be sniffing the laughing gas!!! And/Or have an optimistic Speedo. 85 mph???? GEOO

[Frank Civitano]

Hey Geo... Got me laughing my a## off. Lets see I have 510hp and I can get 78mph hmmmm!! I must be doing something wrong. When My motor was stock I was able top get 64mph tops and that was on an empty tank. he must be talking about being towed behind his truck? Like when I hear a 350 in a 22zx can do 70. Maybe 58 but thats about it. The boat has 3600 pounds on her and thats with an empty tank. :grin

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Frank Civitano

[Frank Civitano]

OOPs I missed http://www.donzi.net/ubb/biggrin.gif

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Frank Civitano

[RickSE]

Also note that this is not a stepped hull boat. This one has been for sale for a while. I remember seeing it several months ago.

Here's an example of a better buy, $25,300 right now. Man I wish I had the money!

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1273223&a=9426622&p=35702299&Sequence=0&res=high

[Tony]

Black boats are sharp...in part because no one has them. Those trim tabs look like they are two feet long! How fast do you think that Cig will run?

[Bryan Tuvell]

Frank, I saw your post about the Cali 22ZX speed numbers, I to disagree on 85MPH, but beg to differ on the 70's comment.
I own a 99 22ZX with a 350 Mag MPI, speedo (Gaffrig II) says 68 (Clean new tube) and my GPS says 69 and and often 70! The factory will tell you the boat advertised for 68MPH, took us 4 props to get there, but anyway, our speeds was me and a friend with a full tank of gas less than a foot of chop in the bay heading seaward. I have a stainles 4 Blade lab finish, 21 pitch Merc bravo I prop, this speed was at 5700RPMs.
I am no boat expert but I would say after quite a few 23 foot sting ray 502 rides the Donzi step haul is the primary reason for the extra speed from the ZX's and Daytona series. The Daytona performance package supposedly boasts the numbers even higher, they advertise over 100MPH. I am sure that is twin 370's Scorp's in a 26 Daytona package.
Just wanted to throw my two cents in there. I am going to try to make the KY event but it is a haul from the eastern shore. We are planning to vacation at Lake George next year as a family during the Donzi deal there.
I hope to meet all the great guys on this BB.
Bryan

[BigGrizzly]

My sons 99 22ZX does the same as Frank's stocker and he turns a 24 bravo at 4800 then it begins to hit the rev limiter.
that is my 3 cents.

[Tom on Lanier]

Grizz - Marc's boat is a big block (isn't it?) turning 4800. Bryan's is a small block turning 5700. Gear ratios ??? Hey Bryan - what is the gear ratio in your outdrive? Whatever, that is impressive performance. Bryan, start a day earlier and meet us at Cumberland. Should be a blast.

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Tom
"Tomahawk"

[Bryan Tuvell]

Tom, I plan to do my best to go, that is quite a haul but should be a blast! I have enjoyed this BB so much I almost feel I owe it to myself.
I tried to email Frank but I think he has changed his address. His boat sounds pretty awesome!! Plus I love the white windscreen, mine is the tinted glass.
As far as Gear ratios go I am clueless. The boat was my bosses and I spent it's first year on it learning it at the same time as him, then he sold it to me!
It is a second gen alpha one, that is about all I know. When it was purchased it would only get to about 63 or 64 (68 was advertised), that is when we contacted the performance guys at Donzi for prop ideas, we went through three different 3 blades props before we got to this one. Plus the small block weighs allot less. I think one trip accross the scales it was just over 3200 minus the trailer of course.
It has been a great starter boat for me and I am learning allot, especially here on the BB.
Bryan

[Frank Civitano]

The gear ratio in a Bravo 1 with a 350 is the same at 1.5 also the a stock 350/300 rev limiter is at 5200 on that motor 5700 would put it through the engine cover. I test drove a 22ZX with a Scorpion. They run 66mph at 5600 because of the modified engine. If you did the scale a 22 with a 350 comes in at 60 mph with a 21pitch prop. If you had lower gears you would have a larger pitch. My 22 24pitch 385hp was 4800 at 66mph. Donzi goes to the fastest model and that is what they post how fast a model go's. 22Daytona with a scorpion was tested for that 68mph number. A 28 Zx with scorpions tops out at 76mph. Been on one many times.

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Frank Civitano

[Frank Civitano]

I am sorry. Alpha are at 1.5 also on the 22ZX

[Frank Civitano]

Bryan. Hi thats my address she is still the same. Believe stay with your tinted wind screen. The white cowling is nice but the sun loves reflecting own your lip and gives you a nice lip burn. I feel lke Suzie Chapstick.

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Frank Civitano

[Tom on Lanier]

Thanks Frank. That's what I thought. Bryan, sounds like your boat runs great so just enjoy it (when bay warms a bit) and I hope to meet you either at the Portofino in late March or at Lake Cumberland or, what the heck, BOTH!
BTW, we have a winter storm watch here in Atlanta today. A whole 1/2" of snow and 32 degrees. What a calamity. Schools are closed, people are crashing all over the place and authorities say "don't go out unless you have to." For a guy from Michigan, it's hilarious!

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Tom
"Tomahawk"

[Bryan Tuvell]

Well my buddy emailed me this morning so I guess the KY deal will be a go, I need someone to alternate driving with, I guess I need to call and check on the rates at the lodge.
Frank, sorry to hear about the lip burn. Did it come that way or did you have it professionally done that way? Do you get any cracking of the gel coat where it attaches to the boat??? I do and Donzi is going to help me get it restored to new in January. Just curious...
In regards to the speeds we have been discussing, I have read many posts and in fact posted a few myself about turning all those RPMs with my small block, but I am almost positive the RPM number I quoted is correct, because before I got GPS my rule of thumb was 65MPH was 5500RPMs. Plus like I said they were under ideal conditions, usually out on the bay or out off the coast in the swells we are usually only doing 60ish, I know they say these engines are designed to run WOT allot but I know it has to be hard on them, yes I tend to baby my ZX.
But if I have learned one thing with this Donzi it is that the rougher the water the easier it is to flat out smoke a sting ray or scaraab (my buddies).
OK enough for now. Bryan

[RickSE]

As far as I know all small blocks have the revlimiter set to 5200 RPM's. 5700 RPM's is questionable unless the ignition and fuel control module has been modified. This also is a lot of revs for a "stock" small block and you wouldn't want to leave it there for very long.

I agree with Frank's numbers but I also agree with Bryan in that the small block 22ZX is a great combination. We're scheduled to get a 2001 22ZX w/6.2L & custom graphics next month which should be an even better combination, and a lot cheaper than the Scorpion. As I said before though remember that the boat which started this discussion does not have a stepped hull, so 85MPH is very questionable.

[EricG]

I think Rick is right about the stepped vs. no-step thing. My 88 Z21 (No Step)with the Carbureted 350 Mag/Alpha combination gets about 53-54MPH at 4500RPM (58 on the Speedo) - although Powerboat tested this combination in 87 and got 56-57 on Radar (I haven't got the right prop yet....).
So, could Bryan's boat with the combination of the Step, more HP with the MPI motor, and more RPM's get over 10 MPH Faster? I think that seems reasonable.
But, I don't think the Non-stepped Big Block from Cali is going to get 30MPH More....

Just another perspective....EG

[boldts]

I don't know anything about the speeds you guys are talking about, but I agree with Bryan on one of his points and that is, there is no better boat design in 1 to 2 foot chop. I love to take my 18' up to Lake Erie and dust the larger 23' - 24' so called performance boats. My Donzi has no floatation in the bottom, at least not that I have ever seen, and she flies from chop top to chop top while these other guys are trying to keep up by running their trim so high, the boat is bouncing all over the place. I once got to drive a B class offshore boat and while we didn't open her all the way up, 75 was feeling way cool. I've been hooked on offshore racing ever since. You may ask how a nobody Donzi owner got to drive a offshore race boat? I was working as a patrol boat at the race and the owner/driver of the boat asked if his family could go on the course in my boat to get photos during the race. Afterwards he asked me what he owed me. At first, I said you don't owe me a thing, but after thinking here is a chance to fulfill a long time dream, I asked if he would take me for a ride on the race boat. Amazingly, he said OK although he was low on fuel and we couldn't go far. Man, I was all smiles ear to ear. Other than my wedding day and the birth of my daughter, Best Damn Day Of My Life!!!

Scott Boldt

[Bryan Tuvell]

Great forum, I am a bit worried now, I will go home and pull the Merc manual, I read it once and there was different rev settings for 3 different 350 engines, the highest I do remember was the MPI which is what I have.
Even more alarming is the fact the "only" certified Merc guy within a 100 miles of me said he went over the engine front to back prior to winterizing it. If the capability for disaster is there I will find out this way, not the hard way.
Agree with all the comments on the 85MPH, I emailed the guy and said it was hard to believe and he actually said he let off the throttle at 85!!! He went on in length about this special carb etc... He should know, any potential buyer will want proof of the speed!
Let it be known now, on the record, my Garmin GPS is mounted in my boat and if I get to KY I will do my 69/70 number and bring my GPS ashore! Good cold beer conversation at night!
Sadly though, I am sure there will be many wakes for me to follow from you experienced guys that know all the secrets to get every extra pony out of an engine package.
I am learning fast though.
Oh lastly, when I read the Donzi speed numbers I refered to earlier (Daytonas capable of over 100MPH) they came from the 2001 brochure which explains the Daytona package and how it differs from ZX. Just thought I would mention my reference to be factually!
Bryan

[BigGrizzly]

Just a word on that special carb. Its just a Demond 850. It has 4 corner squirtersand 4 jetable ventories that can be sized. I have one. Other than that its just a refined looking Holley( for all intent). He does have internal mods, anybody know what hind?

[Frank Civitano]

I love the 22 Zx. I run the Ocean and I keep up with most of the big boys out there.They all think I am a little nuts. But hey I like going 125 in a drag boat.

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Frank Civitano

[Bryan Tuvell]

Frank, I look forward to meeting you! You sound like a great guy to share stories over a cold beverage and a campfire, or at a marina bar! hmmmm if it rains we will need some sort of entertainment/education. I wonder what the laws are for that little town? LOL
Anyway, I just got home, we have my daughters recitle tonight, afterwards I will pull the numbers from my Merc book on RPM's and post them here.
Bryan

[Bryan Tuvell]

One more thing Frank, funny thing you mentioned the ocean, I was out in a small craft warning (3 to 4 foot, swells to 5/6) doing about 45-50MPH, when my elderly gentleman neighbor said, this is great (as loud as he could)!
But I forgot to tell you,,,,, my wife can't swim!!!!!!!!!!!
360 time! Heading home on that note!
Bryan

[Donzigo]

Bryan, The Alpha I, second series you speak of has the 1:50/1 gear ratio. the first series had 1:30/1, I think. I had an Alpha I, first series on my Z-25, 454CU/330HP, when it was new. I kept burning up gears, till I had a 1:50/1 installed in place of the 1:30/1. Frank, I heard through the grapevine that Donzi might discontinue the 22ZX, for fear of accidents. It's one of the hottest packages they have foot for foot. The word is that they can be a bit unstable in a turn at high speeds. Any truth to it?

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http://www.Donzi.net/richardsig.jpg

[Bryan Tuvell]

I am confident in my boat at high speeds, but will say most 22 footers when you hit 70begin to be unstable.
On the ZX "my opinion" is ALWAYS leave the trim in while turning at high speeds!!!
Bryan

[BigGrizzly]

Donzigo, you heard it wrong! My son has a 22Zx abd I have the Criterion(22 standard hull). and his is as stable as mine. What you heard is if the tabs are down in a turn it really grabs hard and hook. I tried it and its not any worse than a cat. The 22ZX we have doesn't even need the tabs. the rear steps have a cup that grabs like a fin or speed rails. I put his through the paces and couldn't make do any thing that I havn't experienced before on my other boats. Remember in experienced drivers are their own worst enemy

Randy

[This message has been edited by BigGrizzly (edited 12-23-2000).]

[Frank Civitano]

Any boat with a step hull when taking a turn should never be trimmed in, Keep the trim out you may suffer from prop blow out at high speed but that's better then trimming in and stuffing your nose and having a high speed spin out. Donzi dropped all the big blocks hoping to stop the accidents from high speed turns, But the 22 ZX is a drivers boat that is nicely priced! And that's were the problem is. Slowing them down I guess didn't,Lt help. Hey guys instead of dropping the ZX drop the ventilated bottom and ad a pad. The boat is way to pretty to get rid of.

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Frank Civitano

[Bryan Tuvell]

Frank, I agree on the outdrive trim comment, I guess I said it backwards! My ZX runs best just before the first notch in the gauge when on plane at high speeds.
I have not really made any sharp turns above probably 50, I look forward to getting some pointers in person. In regards to trim tabs they are usually down when I am out in the ocean. One project this spring is tab indicators. I use the count method to know where there are, but bringing them back to stow all the time is a pain too, I like the idea of them stowing automatically when the key is turned off. Frank if you have indicators where are they mounted in your cockpit???
When I do turn when the boat starts to drag I usually add throttle to keep up speed. I have heard stories about the abrupt spin outs that can be associated with step hulls, fortunately I have never experienced one.
Bryan

[BigGrizzly]

Bryan, Sompting is wrong here. The bow step is always in the water unless trimes high and going very fast. The step is not new. It is there to add smoth entry and it works well. I have access to both hulls with the same power and same size and with in 1 mph top speed of each other. I have compared both at the same time on the same water. My own ocean qnd rough water driving started in the late 1950's. With what I see that a 22ZX doesn't even need the tabs. Look at the bottom, the stern step is about 4-6 higher thus keeping the bow step in contact with the water. My son though the same way you did. Well dad showed him, now he doesn't even use the tabs. The biggest problem is the trim reacts too fast and is hard to locate and relocate exactly, untill you practice alot. My suggestion is get a manual trim indicator first, thats what we are doing on our boats.
Like Frank says the 22zx is a drivers boat. The only thing he missed is any performance boat is a drivers boat. If your not a driver than you might as well be driving a personal watercraft.
If I seem harsh sorry, but we don't need any more statistics. I see too many accidents looking for some place to happen. Every day I go out I see them. When it happens the owners blame the boat. The news papers then print "Accident caused by a Hi Performance boat". then in small print months latter you find that the guy was drunk and just got the boat.

Randy

[

[This message has been edited by BigGrizzly (edited 12-24-2000).]

[Frank Civitano]

Bryan. Randy is right I never use trim tabs Heck I dont have them and I find no need for them on the 22. If I add a extension box then I will put Kiekeifers on to give the boat more length. The way the hull is made trim tabs should be in the up position unless you have an off balanced weight. I have bolster seats instead of the stock seats so I push the envelope. I spun the boat out at 75mph to see how she can handle it. The 22ZX was awesome and if you know what your doing with her she is one of the best boats in her class to drive. I do like the bolster seats better even for sitting you feel more secure. I email you a picture with the bolster seats.

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Frank Civitano

[Bryan Tuvell]

Frank and Randy, interesting. I never said to be a pro boater, I am learning daily here and daily when on the water. So I enjoy all comments.
I love the ZX and I am gradually moving up to more aggressive turning etc. Seeing how this is my very first boat as owner I am in no hurry to learn from a bad mistake. Experience only comes with time. I mentioned the outdrive trim because I did see two guys get thrown hard in a fountain when he trimmed the engine back down in a turn, one hurt his shoulder bad.
Anyway, I know it is Christmas eve and we here are tracking Santa but I had to check the Donzi BB in the mean time.
Happy Holidays to all and God bless...
Bryan

[Bryan Tuvell]

Frank. I look forward to the seat picture, I am 6'6" so my head sticks up high over the wind screen!!! LOL
I though of trimming down my drivers seat base!
Thoughts? Bryan

[BigGrizzly]

All we are doing is trying to teach without you having to pay the high price of experience. This way you may try sompting and be ready in advance for the outcome. We don't have anything to prove, allwe want is safe and fun boating. I am looking forward to meeting you at Cumberlin

[roadtrip]

Bryan,
It's cold, even down here in Texas, and man I am looking forward to meeting you and the others at Cumberland in a few months.
I agree with the level heads on this thread that performance boating should be conducted way behind the ragged edge. Pushing things, just to try them, gets people seriously hurt. Running a performance boat to its limits should be well within your limits and experience.
Sorry to sound rough, but I have seen the results of poor thinking on the water. I like to think of this group as experienced aficiandos of fine performance boats and I don't think you will find many crazies among them.
Having owned several performance boats both with stepped and traditional bottoms,
a stepped bottom has many pluses including a 5-8% boost in top end and better midrange performance due to more air under the boat at speed and therefore less resistance. Turning any step hull boat beyond 50-55 mph sharply is an opportunity to take a swim. Tabs should be up to avoid setting up a serious hook and I always got the drives down to neutral or even with the boat to execute any turn. Never had any hint of trouble. By the way, I saw 115 mph in a vee hull several times, so I know what it is like to milk the most performance out of a machine and I am still here to brag about it!
The best part of performance boating is sharing the ride with other people in the boat and sensing the thrill in their faces as you roar down that lake.
Dreaming of upcoming days spent on the water...
todd somerville

[Tom on Lanier]

http://www.donzi.net/ubb/eek.gif Todd - 115 MPH! Holy...Smoke! What kind of boat was that? BTW, how does your new 22 Classic run?
Hey, that's a roger on the Lake Cumberland deal. Really looking forward to seeing that lake and meeting more folks of like mind and similar interest.

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Tom
"Tomahawk"

[roadtrip]

Originally posted by Tom on Lanier:
http://www.donzi.net/ubb/eek.gif Todd - 115 MPH! Holy...Smoke! What kind of boat was that? BTW, how does your new 22 Classic run?
Hey, that's a roger on the Lake Cumberland deal. Really looking forward to seeing that lake and meeting more folks of like mind and similar interest.


Tom,
Yeh running 115 was pretty cool, but taking care of the beast that did it wasn't.
Fountain 32 big step with custom 800SC motors. Sold it to a TransAM racer who had more patience with the maintenance and wrench turning requirement to keep the thing on the water than I did. Awesome boat though.
Ironically, we get approached and receive more compliments on the Classic than we ever did on the Fountains. We love the boat and think we will get a whole lot more use out of it. Finally, we don't miss the gold chains with an attitude crowd at all.
A Classic is much cooler than any Fountain!
Todd Somerville

[BigGrizzly]

You have seen the light, you are a true Donzi person. Anyone who has done that much traveling for a 22 has my vote. You deserve lots of luck with the new boat. We will have fun at the lake when we wake up those horses.